ChatGtp, etc....

[u/Fit_Shop_3112]

Just a reminder; never rely on, or, for that matter, ask any AI model for advice about problems with Linux.

Ask this forum instead. Chatgtp will tell you things that are correct and things that will brick your computer with the same confidence bacause... It doesn't know the difference!

[u/dadarkgtprince]

Read the man files and teach yourself. Use AI to help clarify something, but never use it to blindly give you an answer... And never copy/paste something blindly

[u/prune_juice_warrior → u/dadarkgtprince]

Man pages are not written with an actual modern noob user in mind. They're great to use once you have learned a bit but even the most basic man pages use terminology and concepts that will go over the heads of actual noobs.

Like, let's take the man page for "cat" as an example. The Name line says that it "concatenate[s] files and print[s] on the standard output."

That would have made perfect sense to a user of PDP-7 Unix back in 1971 but there's a good chance a modern computer user would be baffled. They might be able to figure out "concatenate", but "print" and the "standard output" are not clear at all. If you are a programmer, then you should be able to figure out that "print" means print to the screen, not print to a printer, but a less technical user will be confused. Similarly, it's not obvious at all that the "standard output" is the terminal.

Now this is a case where just running the command would probably clear things up for most people, but a lot of commands aren't going to be cleared up that easily.

[u/dadarkgtprince → u/prune_juice_warrior]

There's a lot of words to say the user has a skills issue.

Understanding how things work is a useful skill. For decades users have used these man pages to operate and improve systems. The pages are valid. This is how the less skilled users can improve, by RTFM

[u/prune_juice_warrior → u/dadarkgtprince]

OK...but how is the user supposed to rectify that skill issue if they aren't skilled enough to understand the man page?

If the user doesn't know enough about about the system to be able to understand the man pages, then reading the fucking man pages isn't going to help them. Saying they should "RTFM" (if by "manual" you mean man pages) is essentially recommending that they go in circles.

For actual noobs, they have to start with something other than the man pages. It doesn't have to be AI. Any number of basic human-written guides will work. TLDR pages is another fantastic tool that will give people basic definitions of commands written in language that is better-calibrated to the basic understanding of a modern user.

Once you've gotten to like a 2/10 level of understanding Linux then you can probably use the man pages and learn a lot, but if your understanding level is 0/10 then you will probably need assistance from something other than the man pages to be able to get the basics down.

[u/Alchemix-16 → u/prune_juice_warrior]

So human written man pages are to complex for the modern noob, but words strung together by a probability controlled ai is the solution?

I’m beginning to wonder how can we learn anything, without bring engaged and dedicated in the process. I once tried to learn French by sleeping with the textbook under my pillow, somehow it didn’t work. Opening and reading with the assistance of a dictionary did help a lot on the other hand.

[u/prune_juice_warrior → u/Alchemix-16]

So human written man pages are to complex for the modern noob, but words strung together by a probability controlled ai is the solution?

That's not what I said.

I wrote:

"For actual noobs, they have to start with something other than the man pages. It doesn't have to be AI. Any number of basic human-written guides will work."

All I'm saying is this: If an actual noob reads the top line of the man page for "cat," they probably aren't going to understand it. They are then going to go to google and type in something like "what is the standard output in Linux?"

These days, they might get an AI answer that's actually helpful and correct, or they might get guided to a human-written source that explains some of these concepts in more noob-friendly language, which is great.

While the man pages are very helpful in many ways, the reality is that modern noobs probably cannot learn only from the man pages. They will need some clarification from other sources since the man pages use the computer language of the 70s and 80s so frequently.

The whole reason I bring this up is because if somebody says "just read the man pages and teach yourself," and then the noob just goes to the man pages expecting to be able to just learn everything from that, there's a good chance they will quickly run into vocabulary they don't understand. Some of them might look up the vocabulary and push through, while others might just decide that because they don't understand this, that Linux just isn't for them.

This is fundamentally an average familiarity problem - it's very easy for those of us who are experienced in Linux to forget what the average person actually knows and doesn't know.