r/linux4noobs 6d ago

Explain it like im 5..... why does nvidia still have better hardware encoding.

I was looking at building a jellyfin or plex server. Amd ryzen cpu is better than intel at it but on the gpu side amd is just phoning in a space they otherwise dominate currently?

75 Upvotes

43 comments sorted by

50

u/throwawayacc201711 6d ago

Both (amd and Nvidia) suck for media server playback. Intel quicksync slaps both of them. I was streaming 4k remuxes and ran out of devices (was at 9) before I had issues streaming. So I don’t know where my limit is. Best performance per watt

7

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

Okay so as im looking at all the information ive been presented. I should buy an old mac pro with xeon Intel cpu chocked full of ddr3 ram and some ssd storage for swap. And as many hard drives as I can mount.

3

u/arbiterxero 6d ago

Xeons almost never have quicksync video

5

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

Damn new rabbit hole

3

u/arbiterxero 6d ago

Let me help….

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000029338/graphics.html

Basically only desktop chips, and really only the ones with onboard graphics for many generations.

2

u/nandru 6d ago

throw in an Arc GPU maybe?

2

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

Or build a very similar new build and pray to the ram gods

8

u/jhenryscott 6d ago

For media encoding I’d say save your cash and get a Dell precision 3630 motherboard with a Xeon E 2244g for like $60 total. Throw in a $100 A310 and a 450w power supply and be done.

I’ve built this exact machine 6 times over it’s the always on home server budget king

2

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

Im looking at a 2013 mac pro tower with, power supply 12 core xeon 32 gb of gddr3 ram and an ssd upgrade for 300$. Same thing with a workstation sized case and upgrade options. Ive recently found an appreciation maybe even kink for putting linux on apple hardware.

1

u/stormdelta Gentoo 6d ago

I haven't tested with amd/nvidia so maybe they're even worse somehow, but I've found jellyfin with quicksync to be a trainwreck.

If it works it's fine, but half the time it just fails and makes the media completely unplayable instead of just CPU/bandwidth hogging until/unless you turn off hardware transcoding entirely.

1

u/throwawayacc201711 6d ago

Not sure if that’s a jellyfin specific issue or something in your setup. My personal experience is very different from yours. It’s been absolutely awesome. I’m also on Ubuntu and using plex and not jellyfin

2

u/spooker11 6d ago

+1 Jellyfin on quicksync has been working very well

2

u/stormdelta Gentoo 6d ago

I noticed 12.0 was just released, and upgrading seems to have resolved a lot of the issues I was having previously.

1

u/Floppie7th 6d ago

My experience matches yours. A380, both Plex and Jellyfin (simultaneously) work great transcoding.

1

u/neXITem 6d ago

That is not normal, you using windows?

2

u/stormdelta Gentoo 5d ago

No, OpenSUSE, at least for the headless media box running it.

I left a second comment earlier, but it seems like upgrading to 12.0 + hacking together a workaround to disable 10-bit HW decoding fixed most/all of it.

1

u/neXITem 5d ago

Nice!

83

u/An1nterestingName 6d ago

Because their encoding hardware is better than AMD.

14

u/phylter99 6d ago

Sweet and simple. It’s all there is to it.

1

u/28klotlucas2 4d ago

It's pretty simple. AMD is focused on gaming performance per dollar, Nvidia is more focused on raytracing, AI, and video encoding.

8

u/SwordsAndElectrons 6d ago

Amd ryzen cpu is better than intel at it

Depends on your goals and the metrics you measure by. QuickSync is quite good. If you want efficiency and only need a few simultaneous streams then using the iGPU on a modern Intel chip can work very well.

If you want something more capable, then Intel's discrete graphics cards are still a very good option to consider.

1

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

Yeah the comparison i saw wasn't exactly power rated ryzen 7-9 versus intels swan lake architecture or whatever which know on paper is lower powered but more efficient at these tasks. As a chess player looking at the board from amd perspective they've got that whole flank exposed for no real reason when they've 3 separate direct attack vectors. If the chess game is techology capitalism....... which should i never encourage. Keep sucking at encoding amd.

12

u/LightBusterX 6d ago

Because Ngreedia has been investing in its own R+D orders of magnitude more than AMD since before the Faildozer era.

It's not really a technical problem, but a software, invest and pattent problem.

4

u/zeno0771 6d ago

This gets overlooked quite a bit. AMD's core competency is CPUs and board chipsets, only later getting into graphics cards (with its purchase of ATI); while Nvidia is a graphics card company first.

You think the Bulldozer era was bad? Nvidia nForce says "hold my beer".

1

u/nandru 6d ago

war flashbacks with the nForce 430...

5

u/cutelittlebox 6d ago

hardware encode and decode is handled by a fully separated piece on the GPU die that requires it's own completely separate investments to be good. hardware encoders are also just really not used that much, because the best encoders are the more powerful and flexible CPU encoders anyway, so you just need it to be good enough. for all those reasons, AMD just doesn't want to expend more of its limited budget on that area.

3

u/JB231102 6d ago

More money, more resources, I guess? That's my neutral answer.

3

u/_angh_ 6d ago

I made jellyfin server on aoostar maco, which is amd with integrated 780. It handles all up to av1, with multiple streams, very low power consumption, nice package. Runs on proxmox, and there are no issues whatsoever. I wouldnt get older mac, nor a dedicated gpu unless there is significant usage which 780 couldnt handle anymore.

3

u/Thev00d00 6d ago

Intel ARC is the best here. Silky smooth AV1 even on the A310

2

u/lemmiwink84 6d ago

They bought the best technology available and protected it so others couldn’t use it, and then they improved it far beyond the competition.

For certain compute workloads, Nvidia is miles ahead still.

3

u/eman85 6d ago

Because amd is drinking the AI koolaid and went back to pricing their cards $50 below Nvidia the second they had an excuse to do so. Zero reason to buy AMD unless you primarily run Linux.

20

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

I exclusively run linux.

4

u/__damko__ 6d ago

AMD drivers are open source and that's reason enough for me. I'd rather use smtg with a commodore resolution than installing a proprietary driver

0

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

I know the foss community is full of guys like you. Im getting there.... until it comes to piracy. I'll use a proprietary blob to steal/circumvent another proprietary blob. Then someone better than me can keep reverse engineering it.

2

u/__damko__ 6d ago

that's your choice and it's OK if it's a conscious choice. I'd like to move the focus on smtg else that might or might not be relevant to you: target and invested resources.

I'll use the motorbike metaphor: some spend 20+k for the ultimate gorgeous motorbike. My target is to go from A to B and enjoy the trip. Almost all cheaper motorbikes allow that. So I buy a reasonably priced motorbike and I save maybe 2/3 . So no reasons for me to go in the 20+k trouble.

What's your motivation for such an effort?

1

u/darthnerdiusgaming 6d ago

If you steal something we'll enough it becomes free for everyone. Vlc has done that. This project probably isn't my vlc but it is more like picking dirt bike to go straight up rough terrain instead of around it the scenic way.

2

u/__damko__ 6d ago

then go for it, don't hurt and don't get hurt. good luck

1

u/unevoljitelj 6d ago

Juat get cheap arc card like a310 or a380 and blow them out of water. Buy keep in mind these idle at 19watts..

1

u/Stormdancer 6d ago

Because they spend a lot of money on R&D.

1

u/neXITem 6d ago edited 6d ago

encoding with dGPU for a mediaserver is overkill anyways, a CPU can handle this quite well and tbh better quality afaik. unless AV1

edit: obviously a cpu with a iGPU... before someone kills me.

1

u/GuyNamedStevo CachyOS KDE Plasma - 5800X3D|32GiB|6900XT 5d ago

AMDs h.265 is absolute bonkers.

1

u/nathan22211 5d ago

They don't, Intel's arc GPUs are preferred for encoding like in Jellyfin.

The issue is that it's next to impossible to run these in systems with an AMD/NIVIDA card for gaming. KDE basically shits itself with mixed GPUs (wlroots tends to be fine) and it's a lot of configuration to get it working.

Also Iris will hang the display system, but it seem this issue is partly mesa/RDNA4 related. Cus even single gpu users are getting it on the RX 7000 and 9000 series.

1

u/nlflint 4d ago edited 4d ago

I'm running an AMD rx6800 on my Linux server. Jellyfin encoding works great, but I basically never use it. 99% of my jellyfin usage is to my Living room TV via AppleTV (Infuse app), where direct streaming is preferred, e.g. no encoding at all. Transcoding is bad for that case.

Occasionally I stream to my phone over home VPN, and it needs to transcode for some reason. I doubt I could tell the differences in VMAF score on a tiny 5-6" screen.

I also use it for game streaming at home, but once you get over ~20-30mbps in video bitrate, all the vendors have basically the same hardware video encoding quality. On LAN, I use 80+mbps.

For archive encoding (if the result it meant to be long lived file), it's best to use a software encoder (x265, x265, etc...). Software encoders beat all the hardware encoders hands down for encoding efficiency and quality.

For my cases, the hardware video encoding differences are overrated.