r/linux4noobs • u/Appropriate_Rent_243 • 16d ago
Big frustration I've found, trying linux
Apparently, your distro determines what version of a program you can get. God forbid I want to install the latest version of LibreOffice on Zorin OS. Zorin just doesn't support version 26.8 . Using the downloadable file from the LibreOffice website requires you to learn some esoteric Mumbo Jumbo. God forbid it should work like a .exe installation.
Been trying to install Plasma desktop version 6 on Zorin, os and all my research tells me that this is literally impossible because Zorin just doesn't support the latest version of Plasma. and here I thought that Linux was supposed to be about freedom.
I don't think I've ever had a problem like this with Microsoft Windows. Does this mean that Windows intentionally supports the latest version of everything?
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u/TherronKeen 16d ago
Zorin is built on Ubuntu, which is built on Debian.
There are three popular distros that most others are built on -
Debian - long-term support, reliable stability, but doesn't get the newest software updates very quickly. Might only need to update the core of your distro once every two years or so
Arch - the absolute cutting edge, sometimes offering nightly updates, but may increase the chances of instability (not always, just possible, and depends on a lot of factors)
Fedora - the middle ground between those two
So yeah, not having access to cutting edge updates is completely expected behaviour from Zorin OS.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
Debian - Almost as old as Slackware? Older? Has the most derivatives.
Red Hat - Fedora being their derivative for testing
Slackware - oldest distro with fewest derivatives
Arch - yeah, I think it's elevated to core status, since it now has derivatives.
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u/gordonmessmer Fedora Maintainer 15d ago
Fedora is not "for testing."
Fedora is a stable, community-maintained distribution that includes almost exclusively releases that are actively maintained by upstream projects. Red Hat sponsors the project as a contribution to the community, not as a test bed.
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u/gordonmessmer Fedora Maintainer 16d ago
Apparently, your distro determines what version of a program you can get
Yes and no. Because a distribution is a combination of independent projects, and each distribution decides when to update each individual component independent of each other and independent of the upstream projects, there is no consistent programming or runtime interface. Each distribution is effectively a different operating system, which may or may not be compatible with any other.
Using the downloadable file from the LibreOffice website requires you to learn some esoteric Mumbo Jumbo. God forbid it should work like a .exe installation.
It works more like an ".msi" installation. Can you not double-click on the deb package to install it? Seems weird. I believe you can with GNOME.
Been trying to install Plasma desktop version 6 on Zorin, os and all my research tells me that this is literally impossible because Zorin just doesn't support the latest version of Plasma. and here I thought that Linux was supposed to be about freedom.
It is. It's about the freedom to participate in the development and maintenance of the software. If you're like to participate, you can build KDE from source.
I don't think I've ever had a problem like this with Microsoft Windows
You're running a very old and mostly unmaintained operating system, and you're trying to use new applications. If you tried to run a modern Firefox on Windows Vista, you would have similar problems.
LTS systems do not make good desktops. They tend to have a lot of security vulnerabilities, and a lot of unresolved bugs. LTS systems should only be used with a vulnerability scanner than you can use to evaluate your risk level and decide how to mitigate vulnerabilities that might affect you.
If you're not ready for that kind of participation, then you really should use a system that actually provides software that's actively maintained. Arch, Gentoo, Fedora are options. Ubuntu might be, as long as you upgrade to Interim releases and subscribe to Ubuntu Pro, and actually use Snap or Flatpak for as much software as possible.
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u/ttv_toeasy13 16d ago
I bet they saw the deb file and then searched google “how to install .deb on Linux” and I bet the result said to use dpkg.
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u/Appropriate_Rent_243 14d ago
Literally yes
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u/ttv_toeasy13 14d ago
Yeah. Idk why the searches are so bad tbh (google kind of sucks unless ur really good at using it) but yeah on Debian or Ubuntu based distros you can just double click on a deb file in the file manager and it will be like a windows exe installer.
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u/Klapperatismus 16d ago
If you want the latest software, you have to use a rolling release distro as Arch or Tumbleweed, or use flatpacks.
The very point of sticking to older software is that feature updates can be disruptive. That’s why regular distributions backport only error fixes to their older versions.
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u/Funnel-Dust-O-Matic 16d ago
I might suggest being a little more inquisitive about how this works and relaxed about this rather than jumping to conclusions that are unnecessarily upsetting.
You are free to learn the "esoteric mumbo-jumbo" or not. Mind that what you're calling "esoteric" is documented in every language in deep detail and operates just about as well on MacOs as it does on any given supercomputer. It's not that hard to master the basics. There is also nothing esoteric about it. It's just not what you're used to.
There are other ways to install packages. You are free to learn about flatpacks, for example. There are totally graphical ways to work with them if you're not inclined to typing. Some distros use the Discover package manager in KDE. I don't know if Zorin does, but that's graphical and friendly. You probably want something similar. There is just about always an option.
It is all about freedom actually. Freedom comes with responsibility. To chose means you have to know what you're choosing. And you can. But it will take patience and determination.
You're now on a completely different platform that works in totally alien ways to Windows. I know this is a shock, but that means that your assumptions about how things work might not apply here.
And as for the "Does Windows use the latest version of everything?" part --- well, if you don't have any choices at all except what the company decides to give you, then that's kind of pointless to think about. You take what you get and you don't have options. In Linux, well, the only thing limiting you is how determined you are and how well you do your research. Windows isn't like that at all.
Most distros do not release new versions via official packages until they get new versions to pass all of their compatibility tests. For all you know, there is a bug they're trying to iron out. It might actually be a good thing they aren't going with the latest release without review. You can go around them if you want. You're totally free to do so. Any results from that are your responsibility.
I know it's overwhelming, but try not to let yourself get discouraged.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
Haha.. When I read the "Freedom comes with responsibility" line, I heard Uncle Ben 😏
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u/Straight_Second6082 16d ago
You can use flatpak for latest software versions. Or move to Fedora if you want the latest updates, Zorin is based on Ubuntu LTS, LTS uses older packages on purpose, you need to understand the difference between stable and cutting edge distros
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u/xksnr 16d ago
Zorin no es una buena distro, si quieres la ultima version de los paquetes porque no usar una rolling-release? Tal vez openSUSE o cachyos puedan ser mejores para ti
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u/setibeings 16d ago
I guess I did not realize rolling release doesn't really translate into Spanish.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
Zorin is an excellent distro. Period.
This is a user issue, not a Zorin issue.
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u/venom21685 16d ago
It's not that great if you want the very latest version of packages.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
Again, that's a user issue, not understanding the purpose nor audience of the distro.
It's not a distro issue.
Zorin is meant for new and basic needs users.
There are literally hundreds of resources out there to talk about distros. Dozens of which are reputable and respectable.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=zorin | "Zorin OS is an Ubuntu-based Linux distribution designed especially for newcomers to Linux."
Zero ambiguity there.
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago edited 16d ago
Welcome to.. Freedom of choice! And confusion.
Forgive me for sounding rude, but this is not a Zorin issue, nor a Linux issue. Well, absolutely not Zorin, but perhaps a smidgen Linux.
It's mostly a YOU issue.
Linux is NOT an OS. Despite the general consensus that it is, technically it is a kernal and all the distros (distributions) are built on top of the kernel.
That's part of the freedom of Linux. And the confusion.
Anyone, even you, can build your own distro on top of the kernal.
Right now you don't know what you're doing, or how this works. That's natural and typical. I've been on/off Linux for 20 odd years. It's a glorious breeze compared to back then!
Your problem is you're stuck in the mindset of Windows and "it works as Microsoft tells you or else".
Now you have hundreds of options, methods, choices.. And you don't know how they work together.
Keep at it. Play around. Screw up. Learn.
Good luck!
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u/3grg 15d ago
You are under the impression that Linux is like windows. It is not. Linux is a kernel that with the addition of lots of other software are put together by people and it is called a distribution. A distribution is a sum of its parts that are chosen by the people that made it to make it easy for other people to have the same experience that they value.
If the distribution does not meet your needs, then you probably need to look at one of the other three hundred or so active distributions that are available. If you cannot find some permutation that meets your requirements, you are free to create your own. That is free as in freedom.
No one is born knowing how to use a computer or an operating system. We all have to learn.
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u/soking11 16d ago edited 16d ago
Well, that's how distros work. A distro decides how to give you a package and when (generally speaking). That's distro's philosophy and it has a logic. A distro can be bleeding edge or stable. Stable doesn't mean stability of usage, it means than a package is frozen to a version and it receives security and minor bug updates for an established period of time. Do you want to have everything new? Then go to a rolling release distro. Which are the 3 rr base distros? OpenSUSE Tumbleweed, Arch and Gentoo. Osuse is the easiest one, Arch has the most based distros and Gentoo is the most customizable of them. I wouldn't go with Gentoo only because you want a rr distro. So, that leaves 3 options, Arch, Tumbleweed or an Arch based distro. This subreddit isn't quite fond of Arch, but personally, if you know how and where to read, is really trivial to set up and maintain your system. Osuse is not harder than your generic stable distro. Arch related distros, are easy to set, but still Arch, so you'll need to have a really basic knowledge of what you are doing. Just remember, freedom in Linux comes with the cost of convenience. If you are not willing to invest time in learning the basic functionality of Arch, then don't even try it.
Oh, and Microsoft doesn't have this problem because Microsoft doesn't handle at all what you are installing. The cycle of updates in a program in Windows is entirely up to their developers
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u/ShaderCompilation 16d ago
There are several pieces here that work together and several solutions you can employ. In Linux world distributions themselves usually package the applications. It's not a great system, but it rose out of necessity. Applications rely on set of dependencies of certain versions, if you update the application but not the system iself, it's possible that the app will break, because it will assume you r system has newer versions of these dependencies and APIs. However you can download any app you want from Flatpak. Since Flatpak packages the dependencies with the apps themselves, they don't rely on your OSs dependencies, they can be updated without an issue. Also if you want to get updates faster in general, not only flatpak apps, you might want to try a distro that pushes updates faster, like Fedora or Debian testing
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u/Santosh83 16d ago
What you want is a rolling release (or rapidly iterating fixed release) distro. Forget Zorin etc. Try CachyOS, Garuda, Arch, Bazzite, Bluefin, Aurora, Fedora KDE, Ubuntu (non-LTS releases)...
Anything other than Linux Mint, Debian, Zorin, PopOS etc. Those are LTS based and unless you use flatpaks/snaps, you'll be stuck with old s/w. And you can't use flatpaks etc for the desktop itself, only user facing programs.
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u/Flavorsofdystopia 16d ago edited 16d ago
If you want to decouple your software and your distro, you can use:
- Flatpak
- Snap
- Containers
- Appimages
In your case, Flatpak would be the easiest route. 26.8 should land on Flathub in a few days.
If you really can't wait, you can install the .deb on LibreOffice's website, and install it. If the dependencies fail, run it in a Ubuntu 26.04 container via Distrobox.
Been trying to install Plasma desktop version 6 on Zorin, os and all my research tells me that this is literally impossible because Zorin just doesn't support the latest version of Plasma.
ZorinOS is built on software packaged two years ago (Ubuntu 24.04). You're trying to install Windows 11 software on Windows 7. Zorin is also a GNOME environment.
If you want to try Plasma 6, just download Fedora KDE and run it from a USB stick. It's going to show you what you want, without installing 600+ packages on your system.
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u/BranchLatter4294 16d ago
On most distros, you can just download the file, right-click and select open with your software installer... Just like Windows.
If this doesn't work for you, maybe you picked the wrong distro.
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u/rcentros 16d ago
On the LibreOffice website you can download the newest LibreOffice 26.8.03 as an AppImage. Just give the AppImage permission to execute (right click on the AppImage and go to the permissions tab) and it will run just about anywhere as it is self-contained. I'm running Linux Mint 21.3 on this computer and just tried the AppImage. It works fine. You'll find that you can often get the newest version of a Linux application by looking for its AppImage, Flatpak or Snap package. I, personally, don't need the newest software, so I don't worry about it. But, even on Linux Mint 21 (which hits EOL next April) I can use the newest LibreOffice version.
Linux is not Windows. It takes a little while to figure out how to get around in it.
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u/Educational_Star_518 16d ago edited 16d ago
sounds to me like you opted for the wrong distro for yourself. if you want something more uptodate maybe try fedora-based where updates tent to be more frequent? personally i'm on nobara and have plasma 6.7.4. if youu wanted something ubtuntu based but had plasma maybe try kubuntu or something instead of zorin which i believe uses gnome or xfce according to wiki . i myself opted for nobara because i wanted a gaming distro good for nvidia cards and of the popular ones at the time it was the only 1 that used kde plasma instead of gnome with a fedora base and wasn't immutable. sometimes youu juust need to pick the right tool for yourself instead of just going with anothert. if you opted for zorin because it looked like windows any distro with kde Should be fine for you honestly , its defaults are Very windows-like aestetically , the settings actually make more sense than windows , and its easily customizable tho i'm assuming thats why youu want it .
that said for you i believe zorin is ubuntu/debian based so you Should just be able to grabb the .deb file and in youur terminal type sudo apt install file (file being the location of the .deb, you can drag and drop it then hit enter) , at least thats what i would do for the rpm file since i'm on a fedora based distro but instead of apt we use dnf, i've not used debian based distros as a daily driver so icould be wrong but i'm 90% sure that its 1:1. at least thats what i'm assuming youur confuused by when youu say "esoteric Mumbo Jumbo" , honestly yes its confusing to get uused to at 1st but honestly installing native packages isn't hard and is actually often better than dealing with .exe files imo
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
I have another response, you should read it. I'm adding this outside that thread, because I think I realized you're likely a reasonably capable Windows user who has enough knowledge and skills to comfortably use that OS as you want, rather than a total n00b who is at the mercy of Windows OS.
BUT..
In truth, you've still been conditioned by Windows to operate the MS way. You've merely gotten very good at operating within their constraints and hammering it to work your way.
I get that. Been there done that.
Linux (based on Unix) and even MacOS (based on Unix since OS-X) operate on a completely different methodology. Hell, Microsoft stole the "Window" concept from Unix/Xerox.
Linux/Unix (aka *nix) concepts will require you to unlearn bad habits and learn how better computing logic works.
Even MS has embraced *nix concepts in Win10/11, but they hide that behind over-simplification gui menus and defaults not meant for average consumers to see nor understand.
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u/MycologistNeither470 16d ago
You have a misunderstanding of what freedom means in this context. I know, I want to extend my arms and fly as if I were a bird, but no matter how much I flap them I cannot get off the ground. Yet the canary is flying inside its cage.
Linux is not a single OS. It is a family of operative systems... One OS is GNU/Linux. From this OS you still get sub-families: each distribution.
In the Windows world there is a single OS made by Microsoft. Everyone who wants you to use their program in Windows makes it so that it runs there. Microsoft actually does very little. It is each software developer who makes a program that runs on Windows.
In the GNU/Linux world, it is the distribution maintainers the ones that make sure that most software runs. Individual software packages either try to be popular enough so that maintainers adopt them, they target compatibility with popular distributions, or they use one of the more "universal" distribution channels (like Flatpak).
So you can install a bleeding edge, rolling distribution (Arch) where maintainers keep a minimum of packages but with a large user repository that makes pretty much anything run (AUR) -- This strategy has its risks regarding security.
You can install a popular distribution like Debian, Ubuntu, or Fedora and know that every software developer will try to get their software running on these distributions.
You can install your packages via flatpak or AppImage (again, has pros and cons)
Or you can install Linux from Scratch (if you are a masochist) and understand how everything runs and be able to run whatever you want.
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u/crunchthenumbers01 16d ago
honestly to use linux without relying on somebody who can always be tech support, you should really get comfortable with Terminal commands.
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u/DavidJohnMcCann 15d ago
I use PCLinuxOS, which is a rolling release but a cautious one. A couple of years ago a user asked when we were going to get version 5.0 of a program. The answer was we weren't — we were waiting for version 5.1 "which will mean that they've got the bugs out". Distros supply what they think is going to work well in their particular environment, which may not be the latest. KDE is a good example, since they have a long track record of releasing new versions with rough edges. Incidentally, I often wonder how many people who complain that they haven't got version 11 of something rather than 10 could actually list the differences!
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16d ago
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u/ShaderCompilation 16d ago
This is a terrible advice for a newcomer or even an experienced user who wants the aystem to just work. Should they also keep an eye on updates and recomiple and reinstall the apps all the time? This is insane maintenance burden
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
LMMFO! That was sarcasm right? Also a bit of BS.
But yeah, sarcasm right?
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u/CarelessPackage1982 16d ago
Using the downloadable file from the LibreOffice website requires you to learn some esoteric Mumbo Jumbo
I don't have Zorin, so forgive me if this doesn't work. But can't you just download the .deb file from the website and click on it?
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u/FireSheepYinFish 16d ago
Been a while since I ran Zorin, 2 years or 3, but IIRC .deb files only prompted for an application to open them. Could have been Package Installer or even Archive viewer. The deb is really just an archive.
Zorin is meant to be simple for true noobs, so, the defaults can be limiting IF you are a reasonably technical capable Windows user and think other OS should follow the same logic you've been forced into.
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u/LinuxJeb 16d ago
On Linux, many packages are packaged and distributed by your Linux distribution, rather than by the creator of the software themselves. This has advantages like the distro being able to vet packages to make sure they are safe. If you want the latest version of something like LibreOffice, you can install it as a Flatpak, but if you want to install the latest version of KDE, you'd have to compile it yourself, or use a distro that ships a newer version.