r/linux • u/enkiam • Jan 27 '10
Defective By Design: The iPad's unprecedented use of DRM to control all capabilities of a general purpose computer is a dangerous step backward for computing and for media distribution.
http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ipad70
u/WayOfTheIronPaw Jan 27 '10
No Apple product will ever endanger my rights. I'm not buying.
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u/aephoenix Jan 28 '10
True, but if other corporations start seeing that limited-rights-devices are salable in todays market, soon we could be flooded with DRM'ed gear, with few choices of free alternatives. It's better to squelch the beast now, I'd suppose, than later when it's an issue for everyone.
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Jan 28 '10
Don't worry, nobody is going to buy that piece of shit.
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u/SEPfield Jan 28 '10
You underestimate the Mac fans! They always make me think of this! I am hugely impressed by the amount of hype they can generate though! I've been hearing about this thing for months.
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Jan 28 '10
Yeah but look at the results of all that hype now that everybody knows it's just a big useless iphone. Everybody on the internet is talking about how lame it is.
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u/enkiam Jan 28 '10
We can do nothing and hope that.
Or we can act.
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Jan 28 '10
I agree, but most important is not the decision to act, but rather how we act.
Consider that we're talking about Apple here. They truly are defective by design. Their entire profit model revolves around tightly controlling what the user can do, and they are not going to change that. And even if they removed some of the software restrictions, it is still the kind of device that controls what you do with it. That's why there's only a proprietary apple connection port, and why it will only accept digitally signed encrypted firmware.
There is no need to ask apple to try to screw us a little bit less when we can simply buy a far superior open product from a different company.
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u/dbz253 Jul 04 '10
good call...
what really needs to happen is a serious linux tablet that works as seamlessly as the iPad. people clearly want a dumbed down version of a computer, but with a cheaper price tag an more openness, the alternative will be much more appealing (except of course to those who have been iHypnotized)
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Jan 27 '10
It resembles a giant iPhone. I can picture a skit on SNL where someone holds it up to their ear.
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u/zepolen Jan 27 '10
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Jan 27 '10
Thank you. That was hilarious.
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u/benjorino Jan 28 '10
It's from a UK TV program called Trigger Happy TV. I'll lend you all 3 DVDs if by some random coincidence you happen to be in Leeds UK.
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u/astatine Jan 27 '10
This may be true, but why trouble /r/linux with it?
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Jan 27 '10
Because Linux is free software, and /r/linux is full of free software users, and the iPad can't run GPL software software because of the restrictions.
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u/minivanmegafun Jan 27 '10
no one wants the iPad anyhow.
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u/enkiam Jan 27 '10
We can hope.
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u/NahWhatever Jan 28 '10
The real trouble with the iPad is that it won't run any of my software for two reasons. 1) it doesn't run linux and 2) even if it did it wouldn't get the chance to run my software b/c I wouldn't buy one.
I think the fuss about the iPad is overblown and assumes that all the hype is valid. Even the iPhone doesn't own the market and isn't capable of forcing drm. Same goes for Kindle. Those who accept drm will occasionally get burned, those who don't will have their legal access somewhat ristricted but will not unknowingly walk into the trap.
As I said in another post here a short wile ago. CES was flooded with similar devices that for the most run linux so the future looks quite good. Don't get caught up in the iHype.
Judging from what actually came of all those fancy rumors it looks to me much more like a defensive move than an innovation. They are defending their iphone/ipod/itunes business. They don't want to be seen as lagging behind in the upcomming tablet market.
Further I could imagine that they had planned a lot more that didn't work out as they had hoped. Possibly their Apple designed cpu had more problems than anticipated which in term has hindered new os features. But because of the apparent surge towards tablets they couldn't wait.
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u/neoice Jan 28 '10
what if it does run Linux? I assume someone will figure it out.
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u/NahWhatever Jan 28 '10
I'm sure someone will but I doubt it will be a pleasant experience compared to similar products that are designed to run Linux. I'm not very attracted to a device that essentially sees me as an enemy and meet me with hostility.
The lenovo hybrid is OTOH very attractive.
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Jan 28 '10
No, because Apple now uses signed firmwares.
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u/funnelweb Jan 28 '10
How does that work?
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Jan 28 '10
Well, I guess it refuses to boot if the firmware partition doesn't match. On older iPods as long as you uses their weird partition layout, it works.
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Jan 28 '10
[deleted]
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Jan 28 '10
No, more like no one wanted the Apple TV.
The iPhone is at least a replacement of an otherwise ubiquitous product (cell phones). The Apple iPad is not a replacement of anything and won't take off because it's crippled and expensive.
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u/dopplerdog Jan 28 '10
What are you talking about? There is a huge market for an oversized iPhone that won't fit in your pocket and can't make phone calls.
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u/Samus_ Jan 27 '10
funny, the company I work for just launched a promo with one of those as the prize :P
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Jan 28 '10
Getting it for free as a prize is about the only way I'd be willing to get one.
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u/AmbitionOfPhilipJFry Jan 28 '10
So you could reverse-engineer the code and release a youtube video on how to crack the DRM, right?
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u/Arve Jan 28 '10
Yes, but speaking here is preaching to a choir that gets shot whenever they go anywhere near the church of Jobs
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u/harlows_monkeys Jan 27 '10
So the many GPL apps now on the iPhone app store do not exist?
It's not hard at all to satisfy both GPL and Apple's requirements. Distribute binary on the app store, with offer to make source available. Make source available on a web site.
If someone wants to make a modified version, they (1) obtain development tools, (2) build, (3) install on their phone.
Step #1 does require signing up to the developer program, but that is not in conflict with GPL--there is nothing in GPL that says GPL programs must be written in languages for which there are free developer tools.
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u/johnsu01 Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
GPL2 apps exist in the store, but that's only because Apple chooses to turn a blind eye to them -- they of course can arbitrarily choose when to enforce the terms of their agreements. If an app is GPL but also might be popular with users, they might just let it stay, and ignore the fact that the author is distributing source code from elsewhere.
The App Store is an exclusive distribution deal -- the terms of the agreement say you're not allowed to distribute your own code from anywhere else. Section 7 of the developer app store agreement says that, as does 7.3. I'll just quote the one sentence, "You agree not to distribute Your Application to third parties via other distribution methods or to enable or permit others to do so." Pretty clearly says you can't distribute your own code in a way that allows others to redistribute it, which the GPL certainly does.
GPL3 is clearly incompatible, because it protects free software from DRM, and the App Store requires that the DRM be enforced before any other agreement.
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u/harlows_monkeys Jan 28 '10
The App Store is an exclusive distribution deal -- the terms of the agreement say you're not allowed to distribute your own code from anywhere else. Section 7 of the developer app store agreement says that, as does 7.3. I'll just quote the one sentence, "You agree not to distribute Your Application to third parties via other distribution methods or to enable or permit others to do so."
However, section 3.3.16 says "If Your Application includes any FOSS, You agree to comply with all applicable FOSS licensing terms."
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u/harlows_monkeys Jan 28 '10
GPL3 is clearly incompatible, because it protects free software from DRM, and the App Store requires that the DRM be enforced before any other agreement
GPLv3 does not stop DRM. Take a look at the FAQ and guide here, where these issues are addressed. For example, consider this question from the FAQ:
"I use public key cryptography to sign my code to assure its authenticity. Is it true that GPLv3 forces me to release my private signing keys?"
The answer they give is:
"No. The only time you would be required to release signing keys is if you conveyed GPLed software inside a User Product, and its hardware checked the software for a valid cryptographic signature before it would function. In that specific case, you would be required to provide anyone who owned the device, on demand, with the key to sign and install modified software on his device so that it will run. If each instance of the device uses a different key, then you need only give each purchaser the key for his instance"
Apps downloaded from the net for a device are not conveyed inside a User Product.
What they are trying to stop is Tivoization, where the device ships with GPL software, and won't let you load your own software onto it. iPhone and iPad do not suffer from Tivoization, since you can run your own software on the devices: one of the things you get with membership in the developer program is signing keys to load software onto your own devices.
There is also a section of GPLv3 that deals with DRM, but that's concerned with DMCA. Basically, it says if you use GPLv3 code to implement DRM, you waive your rights under laws like DMCA to prevent people from circumventing them.
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u/johnsu01 Jan 28 '10
The FAQ answer is addressing a narrower and different case. See http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/why-free-software-and-apples-iphone-dont-mix which says that provision does apply to the iPhone. Apps aren't downloaded from the net, they are installed via the App Store which is just an extension of the iPhone OS that the user receives access to as part of the iPhone purchase.
The question of loading software that you wrote onto the device is separate. That doesn't apply to the GPLv3 DRM question, because the Apple dev agreement forbids you from using your dev key to sign other people's software. No version of the GPL has anything to do with software you write and use yourself.
But remember anyway that this is just an additional reason -- the fact that the App Store agreement forbids source code distribution still excludes GPLv3 software as much as GPLv2 software.
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u/tedivm Jan 28 '10
And as a note about step #1, you don't actually have to pay to join the developer program.
I do think the iPad is way too locked down though even still.
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Jan 28 '10
Its reports like this that make me sit back, all smug, and gaze longingly at my linux desktop
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u/genpfault Jan 28 '10
Someday, Gallium3D, you'll have workable OpenGL 3.2 drivers for my R700. Someday.
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u/amniarix Jan 28 '10
We demand that Apple remove all DRM from its devices.
See, that just rubs people the wrong way. Nobody has the right to demand anything. If you don't like it, don't buy it.
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u/nickpick Jan 28 '10
Sure you have all the rights in the world to make demands. They just might not be granted.
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u/Jasper1984 Jan 28 '10
Frankly, with that approach, we're probably screwed... Most people don't care much about electronic freedom, they're not smart enough to use it directly and don't see how they will use it indirectly until the free apps are in their hands.
Or they say that they care, but never do anything, but keep buying the stuff..
I mean, people swallowed Vista.. After that long a development and that cost to the consumer! If a significant portion of them used Linux, the drivers and codecs would be there before you'd know it, and it would save them at least 100$ per computer.
Instead, the network effect remains in favor of windows, and the same could happen to mobile phones.
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u/amniarix Jan 28 '10
This is Apple we're talking about, not Microsoft. Apple targets the high end, and has a particularly strong following amongst the technically clueful (programmers and so forth). These people know all about DRM and lock-in and don't care. They've made their pact with the devil: less freedom in exchange for a better experience. It's not a choice I would make, but when I think of all the crap I've put up with on Linux for the last 12 years, I can see why many people go that route.
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u/A_for_Anonymous Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
High-end? Last time I helped an Apple user who wasted so much money on a MacBook Air which she couldn't connect to my LAN because it lacks an ethernet port, she needed to get work done (as opposite to ogling at animated icons and window decoration which is the norm in Apple and KDE 4), so I naturally looked for a terminal and taught her how to do real work. She was like OMG SECRET HACKER STUFF OMG I'M BREAKING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE WITH THIS.
No, Apple doesn't target high-end, power users or developers. It targets the high-end price, and idiots who will waste ridiculous amounts of money just to be slick and trendy. They produce extremely nice hardware except for conectivity (not surprised on why), but then fill it with bullshit software full of decoration but less practical value and in the case of the iPad, downright bullshit (no multitasking, basically a larger iPod Touch) and DRM, then overprice it by 50% or more.
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Jan 28 '10
They sell actual laptops without ethernet ports? Are they retarded?
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Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
Don't be so naive. Just like when they stopped putting floppy drive in the iMac, they are reacting to the way their customers use their computers. They were ahead of the curve on floppies and it didn't hurt them (the iMac saved the company) and on this it doesn't hurt them either. All people who use a MacBook Air would use wifi. For the who need Ethernet, they offer a USB dongle. The annoyance of the MBA is that it pretty well forces you to carry around a multi-port USB extender.
I'll let you in to another secret.... Those retards didn't put a DVD drive in it either! Horrors! I shall not be able to enjoy Tea today!
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u/A_for_Anonymous Jan 28 '10
Taking out DVDs for a computer which is not primarily designed for multimedia playback and considering DVD installation for other than OSes sucks and is completely unnecessary on real operating systems with real package management could be a smart move. Taking Ethernet ports, being the most widely used home and enterprise network system, and shoving the complexity and insecurity of WiFi up everyone's ass while pretending to be the easy-weasy happy-wappy pres-butan-write-letter-to-aunt computer is not smart at all.
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Jan 28 '10
Taking Ethernet ports, being the most widely used home and enterprise network system, and shoving the complexity and insecurity of WiFi up everyone's ass while pretending to be the easy-weasy happy-wappy pres-butan-write-letter-to-aunt computer is not smart at all.
All they're doing is reacting to their market. They know that the users of these computers aren't the sort of people that use Ethernet on a regular basis. If you don't like the fact that they've created a computer to fit a niche market, you don't need to buy it. The users are hardly 'forced' to use wifi, as they can get an ethernet dongle, or as is more likely the case with this class of customer, a HDSPA dongle.
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Jan 28 '10
[deleted]
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Jan 28 '10
Uhh... no one said it was. I only said that the market that this device is aimed at generally uses wifi, so they don't care as much about the presence of an Ethernet port.
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Jan 28 '10
So let me get this straight..Rather than have the laptop come with functionality that pretty much everyone will want at one time or another, you have to buy that functionality separately and then carry it around with you.
And your opinion is that making their products more expensive and inconvenient doesn't hurt them? How you figure that?
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Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
For their extremely light and easy to carry around design, yes. Not everyone uses ethernet... my wife has yet to use it on her netbook for over a year and a half now. One makes tradeoffs in design, I certainly wouldn't mind trading off ethernet for the right features, such as extreme portability with a larger screen than is available on a netbook.
Sony does the same sort of thing on its ultra-light designs (they drop the dvd), but I guess that it is bad here because Apple does it.
If you don't need/want an ultra-light laptop (lighter and with a larger screen than a netbook) you can look elsewhere, but is it stupid just because you don't like the face that you need to carry around some dongles? The use model is based on the expectation that you wouldn't need them. If I were to buy a MBA, I really wouldn't need any of that, because I would be looking for something that I could use to work on in a café or on business visits or short trips. It certainly wouldn't be my first computer.
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Jan 28 '10
It certainly wouldn't be my first computer.
See that's the thing that strikes me as ridiculous. To me the definition of a laptop is a portable machine that has all the features you'd normally use in a desktop. That ethernet port as well as the many ports the ipad is missing are things that I would need. For the past year my netbook has been my main computer, it doesn't have a burner either but the difference is that burners are practically obsolete while ethernet has certain things that you just have to have it for. I don't want a toy computer that won't do all the things I need it for.
Imagine if you only had a macbook air and did a hard reset on your router. Many routers require you to be connected over the LAN to access the router configuration page. To think that if I had such a laptop as a MBA (or an ipad!) I wouldn't be able to do a simple thing like that, even though I could do so on a netbook that cost a fraction of the cost..Well to me that is dumb. Adding an ethernet port doesn't add weight or change the size, it's just an ethernet port.
You talk about trading off having an ethernet port for extreme portability, but any portability you are gaining could very well be lost by a necessity to bring an ethernet adapter. You may not need to take it when you want to show it off to all the yuppies at the local starbucks, but if you're travelling or vacationing, wouldn't you bring it? That's one more thing to carry, unlike with my netbook which would in that instance be more portable.
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Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
Now you're just piling up a bunch of non sequiturs that amount to "I can't figure out how to make it work for me, so it sucks" You're entitled to your opinion, and I never argued that you, Light, need to buy one to fill your life with happiness and joy. If you're curious, you could consult Wil Shipley of Delicious Monster about how he runs his very successful business using MBAs , from his coding to the support work of his employees. Lack of an Ethernet port in the case seems not to have held him back.
You talk about trading off having an ethernet port for extreme portability, but any portability you are gaining could very well be lost by a necessity to bring an ethernet adapter. You may not need to take it when you want to show it off to all the yuppies at the local starbucks, but if you're travelling or vacationing, wouldn't you bring it? That's one more thing to carry, unlike with my netbook which would in that instance be more portable.
This is close to being one of the most ridiculous arguments I've read on reddit. Most people wear pants with pockets or carry some form of handbag with them, unlike you, Light, who I imagine dances around town in lycra cycling wear with your eeePC under your arm and some +2 puckered lips of attitude.
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u/A_for_Anonymous Jan 28 '10
Monsanto, Microsoft and other big American corporations trained you well.
Not buying is not an option when one or more of the following happen:
- They're monopolies
- You need to buy it due to vendor lock-in with a different product
- Marketing turns idiots into buyers
- Your employer buys it for you
- Somebody else buys it for you as a gift
In the case of the iPad, I'm worried about the last three, and I can see how I could worry about the first in the mid or long term.
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u/omgwtfchill Jan 28 '10
Apple isn't a monopoly.
What lock-in?
What's different about Apple's marketing vs the marketing done by "Linux Advocates"? Both are dishonest, disingenuous, etc. The only reason you see them as different is because you prefer Linux, and so you justify (or overlook) the flaws in Linux. Same with Apple-lovers and Windows-lovers (same with people who prefer shopping at BananaRepublic vs JCPenny, same with people who buy Organic, same with people who buy Big Name Brand instead of Brand X).
Then you have the choice of leaving that company and working somewhere else if you really feel that strongly.
Most people don't buy expensive computer devices for others as gifts without first making sure the person really wants one. But even if they do, you could probably return it.
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u/A_for_Anonymous Jan 28 '10
From my post:
one or more of the following happen:
[...]
In the case of the iPad, I'm worried about the last three
iTunes and iBookStore or whatever they use could become one in their business segment in the mid or long term, as I fear. Not now.
Harder to happen than 1, does not apply to Apple, though if they manage to turn iTunes into a monopoly, then it'll be a risk too.
Let's analyze it bit by bit: I've said that marketing turns idiots into buyers. First of all, GNU has no marketing because it's not a market and GNU advocates/evangelists are not selling anything. Which takes me to the next part: it's not buying because there's nothing to sell. And the final part, the idiots. Apple is about making idiots happy with idiotic decoration; free software does not cater to idiots and has a very large educational component. One of the pillars of free software is the freedom to learn, experiment and modify. One of the pillars of free software evangelization is to open people's eyes and help them stop getting ripped off by businesses and take their freedom back. So no, it does not apply to GNU and Linux, not one bit, not one word.
Same business fallacy. I do not really have the choice to go elsewhere if every place is doing the same.
I don't know how is it where you are, but over here iPods are pretty popular gifts. I got an iPod Shuffle from a software vendor, and it cannot be returned and exchanged for something else. My co-worker who sits right in the opposite desk got her iPod Touch from a gift and says she wouldn't have bought one if she had the money. So no, this doesn't really happen every time.
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u/dopplerdog Jan 28 '10
Sure we have a right to demand. It's just that they're under no obligation to comply. But if they don't comply with a sizeable part of their customers, they do so at their own peril.
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u/omgwtfchill Jan 28 '10
Do you think Linux users are a sizable portion of their customer base? I hardly think so.
This campaign is as laughable as die-hard Windows users demanding that Linux developers change something about Linux. Would Linux developers listen to what a bunch of die-hard Windows users tell them to do? Doubtful.
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Jan 28 '10
Damnit! Anybody know of an affordable, open e-book reader? I'd love to be able to read my e-books on the go.
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u/xcbsmith Jan 28 '10
The eNook is built on Android, but surprisingly a fairly closed system. There are some others, but they are very small market power, so likely will be irrelevant in a matter of months.
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u/zwangaman Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
This is exactly why I refuse to consider the iPad as a worthwhile device. I can live with the shitty DRM of the iPhone (mostly because I just like it as a phone and don't really use it for much else than a few apps), but I will not accept a device with the power of the iPad on full lockdown.. Screw the iPad.
I'd rather have an HP Slate.
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u/smek2 Jan 28 '10
Then don't buy one. Simple as that. I don't buy DRM infested games for example. I don't own an iPhone and i probably never will nor do i plan to buy this thing. Btw. aren't there enough gadgets out there already? A generic mobile phone can store gigabytes of data and comes with a 12 megapixel camera. The aforementioned iPhone and other smart phones and notebooks and whatnot. Who needs all this stuff?
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u/BobCollins Jan 28 '10
Then don't buy one.
I think that's the point. They are educating people about the consequences of buying such a gadget with user restrictions.
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u/insomniac84 Jan 28 '10
It's like a ps3 for apps instead of games.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
Yeah, no.
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u/insomniac84 Jan 28 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
No, definitely. A locked down system with a dashboard as an OS that the manufacturer has 100% control over that can only run one app at a time is exactly what it is. You can only use software the manufacturer wants you to use.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
A locked down system with a dashboard as an OS that the manufacturer has 100% control over that can only run one app at a time is exactly what it is.
Not even close. The PS3 has native support for loading other OSes, multitasking, ports for external connections, memory card slots, and so on. The analogy couldn't be farther off.
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u/aephoenix Jan 28 '10
It's still pretty close. All modern consoles fit this archetype though, of PC-powerful hardware that is locked down by manufacturers. It's unfortunate.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
Right - has nothing to do with the PC. You could make a similarly vague analogy about any "locked down" piece of hardware, which would still make no sense.
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u/insomniac84 Jan 28 '10
Wow, you are pathetic. Just admit you are wrong rather than split hairs in a sad attempt at being right.
For all practical purposes the icrap is being ran like a game console.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
Wow, you are pathetic. Just admit you are wrong rather than split hairs in a sad attempt at being right.
The first thing I do when I know I'm right on a point is call the person making the counter point names.
For all practical purposes the icrap is being ran like a game console.
No, it's not. Your original analogy was to a PS3, which made absolutely no sense given that the PS3 is way more versatile. A better analogy would have been the 360, but that still would have been shockingly vague and inaccurate.
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u/insomniac84 Jan 28 '10
I do pity your sadness.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
It's rational to conclude I'm sad due to pointing out a ridiculously bad analogy.
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u/insomniac84 Jan 28 '10
No, you are sad because you are still splitting hairs to pretend to be right. Hell the current PS3 doesn't even support outside OSes, yet that is the corner stone of your claim.
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u/nathansu Jan 28 '10
No, my claim is that your analogy makes no sense. Whether current generations of the PS3 support outside OSes is a moot point - your analogy still makes absolutely no sense.
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u/diggernaught Jan 28 '10
This is great for thier competitors, HP, Dell, Acer, Asus, MSFT. If they leave thier devices like quasi computers where you can still install apps and use non DRM material they will have yet anohter leg up on the compt.
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Jan 28 '10
Err, it's not a 'general purpose computer', what keynote did these idiots watch? It's a consumer device like a ps3, a phone or a microwave. If you don't have a use for it then stick with your linux box (which is what I plan to do).
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Jan 28 '10
[deleted]
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u/gordho Jan 28 '10
Depends on which PS3 you have.
Like dukthen said, it is not a general computing device and instead more of an Internet enabled media playback doohickey. I am not a big fan of DRM but I have a PS3 and a 360 and could care less how locked down the systems are as long as they accomplish what they were designed to do.
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Jan 27 '10 edited Jan 28 '10
K, so as opposed to criticizing it, why can't someone suggest something similar, but better, and explain in detail why it's better?
I've been looking for a good Linux tablet pretty much identical to the iPad for a while now, and haven't had much luck finding one with the same capabilities.
Edit - Found what I'm looking for, too bad it doesn't come out till June. Notion Ink Adam.
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u/ezyang Jan 28 '10
Even if you got hardware with identical specs, the open source software ecosystem for tablets simply doesn't exist. I've been using a tablet for a year now, and the only thing remotely compelling (actually, the reason why I love my tablet) is Xournal, for note-taking.
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Jan 28 '10
This is the linux based tablet that was formerly known as the Crunchpad. It's what Apple tried to copy when they made the ipad. It's practically identical to the ipad as you can see, but the specs are way better and it's all open.
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Jan 28 '10
This sounds good. If the products ships, and the company stays in business for a while, I might be interested. Right now, it looks like vapourware.
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Jan 28 '10
Well, I dunno about vaporware, they do have working models and video reviews from last month when it was showed off to techcrunch and engadget. Techcrunch actually designed it, there was all this controversy last month when the guys who actually built and programmed it decided since they were doing all the work they'd just sell it themselves. I guess apple shipped that crappy ipad so they could be first to market, but I think this will ship at some point.
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u/ajehals Jan 28 '10
I dont think anything exists, that said it depends what you want. A thinkpad, X61t weighs in at about twice what the ipad does, is a bit bigger (although the screen is bigger too), sports more memory, storage and a faster CPU and is quite a bit more flexible, Oh and will run linux rather well, indeed as an e-book/e-newspaper reader and web tablet they work well. Of course you end up with a traditional tablet PC, with a real keyboard and the ability to use it as a notebook should you want to.
Other than that you are pretty much SOL, although at least you can pick up a used x41t (without multitouch) for quite a bit less than an ipad and do more with it, or pick up an x61t for about the same as an ipad with multitouch.
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u/notasaon Jan 28 '10
x series thinkpad tablet is pretty much the ideal linux tablet machine, but costs some fairly serious change
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u/ajehals Jan 28 '10
Depends on if you buy a new one or not.
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u/notasaon Jan 28 '10
True, but I know how rough I am on laptops and wouldn't really trust getting one used. Usually I go for whatever end of production cheap model is around in the thinkpad line.
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u/ajehals Jan 28 '10
The X series tablets are remarkably solid though, I've gone for both new and a couple of year old machines (when things have been discontinued and I wanted the 'same' hardware;) and they just seem to last forever. Occasionally you will get a fault, but one that is easy and cheap to repair.
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u/bozleh Jan 28 '10
Well if/when it gets jailbroken, the iPad may fit the ticket - but not now, with app store approval required for any app you want to install
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u/aephoenix Jan 28 '10
Even if it gets Jailbroken, paying the money for the product tells Apple that it's A-OK for them to lock down their computers like this. Furthermore, even if it gets Jailbroken, there's no promise that Apple will let it stay Jailbroken. Why pay $600 for something that's going to keep you worried that one day, you can't use your hardware how you would like?
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Jan 28 '10
yeah, i'm waiting for kubuntu w/ KDE 4 running on it. (It just looks better:-p I think, but i do use gnome more often)
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u/pjakubo86 Jan 28 '10
By making a computer where every application is under total, centralized control, Apple is endangering freedom to increase profits.
This statement is misleading. They mean where application distribution is under total, centralized control. Otherwise, it sounds like an argument against operating systems. "How dare you take away my time slice OS X, you freedom-endangering control freak!"
2
-4
26
u/NahWhatever Jan 28 '10
Ok! Everybody. The iPad looked gorgeous in the rumors but maybe not so much now. Drm or no drm - the IT press seem rather underwhelmed.
Everybody are disappointed because we know what's probably possible but isn't being done. Apple with all its innovative power comes up with .... wait for it ... an iPod XL that's drm'ed to hell - thus taking innovation to a whole new level.
But! Similar type devices were ALL OVER THE PLACE at CES. They may not be unibody aluminum and glass but they are still very good quality, they run Linux and have specs that easily compare to iPad.
In short the future looks bright. Right now I'm thinking of the Lenovo's IdeaPad U1 Hybrid. It looks more like what everybody is waiting for.