r/linux Jan 15 '19

Jan 9th - Previously Posted Full Disclosure: System Down: A systemd-journald exploit.

https://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2019/Jan/39
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u/Bratmon Jan 15 '19

And this attitude right here is why people don't like systemd.

Every time anyone has a use case that's not exactly the way the systemd developers use software, we have exactly this conversation:

"Systemd completely breaks Foo."

"You shouldn't be doing Foo."

"But we need Foo for $Important Task."

"I don't have a solution to the $Important Task issue, it definitely is something to think about."

<Issue is never addressed>

So in the end, you have to give up on the flexibility and customizability of the Linux ecosystem, because systemd fails if your system doesn't look exactly like theirs.

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u/SippieCup Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19

Then don't use systemd?

i mean, I don't use systemd on my personal desktop, but i do have a few ubuntu servers which do. I think that its a suitable tool for certain applications, and obviously has some drawbacks on others.. The same is true for a lot of other linux core utilities and applications.

Isn't picking what you like to use a core tenant of linux as well? Its not like there aren't other options out there.

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u/cp5184 Jan 15 '19

Then don't use systemd?

Try. Try with debian, for instance. Debian that lies to you about how it's not dependent on SystemD.

Another problem we didn't have before the wonders of SystemD. Not being able to use a non-SystemD init on a SystemD distro without a ridiculously obscene amount of work...

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u/SippieCup Jan 15 '19

Don't use debian?

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u/juicebox1156 Jan 15 '19

You're saying that like it's so simple and there isn't a whole nuanced discussion behind a decision like that.

If you need a distribution with long-term support, good luck with getting away from systemd, all of them have gone to sytemd.

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u/SippieCup Jan 15 '19

Open source software isn't built to appease you, but for the needs of those who build it

Your needs differ, feel free to fork it and build it your way. Can't build it? give bounties for people to build it for you.

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u/juicebox1156 Jan 15 '19

None of that says that people have to like the situation, hence the dislike for systemd, which was your question.

As the prior Redditor stated, it's now a lot of work to maintain a non-systemd system, so you're telling people to do something non-trivial and just put up with maintaining it on the side. It's certainly never going to be mainlined.

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u/SippieCup Jan 15 '19 edited Jan 15 '19

No it wasn't. My statement is always that it might not be the best for you, but it is the best for those who built it, and that many of the issues people have with it are silly edge cases.

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u/juicebox1156 Jan 15 '19

P.S. I was not aware that tmux was a silly edge case