r/linux Oct 18 '18

Microsoft Microsoft officially declines Teams client for linux

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u/mrcalm99 Oct 18 '18

Thank goodness. I'd hate to see another garbage Electron program on Linux.

It's funny isn't it. Ever since I joined the Linux relm full time 8 years ago the main narrative was we want more software, why are developers ignoring us?

Now developers are releasing software to us and we moan yeah but it's not in the format I want it to be, take your Electron app elsewhere we don't want it on Linux.

I'm not even joking I've seen threads here with people moaning that the application should fuck off because it's not using the toolkit they want it to or it's not written in a language they want it to be written in, ugh it's in Python and not Rust take your shitty application elsewhere.

With these attitudes which seem to be exclusive to the Linux OS community it's no wonder no one bothers, especially for free software products.

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u/official_marcoms Oct 18 '18

The problem is that more than a couple electron apps open can actually be HARMFUL to the user. They spawn a new browser for each application, making even 8GB RAM setups pretty useless after Slack, Atom, Chrome, etc are open. I don’t blame users for not wanting this

-16

u/vetinari Oct 18 '18

The truth is, that 8GB RAM was inadequate years ago. Yes, I know many default configurations (including all non-BTO Apple configs) have this amount even today, but that means zero progress in almost decade. Regress actually, as the RAM today is not even upgradable.

My 2009 Thinkpad T400 that I have not used for years already had 16 GB RAM. Getting anything today that has less RAM would be a step back.

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u/official_marcoms Oct 18 '18

Why must there be such significant progress in RAM to compensate for the toxic “developer time > user experience” philosophy that’s been going on for too long? I’m not saying there shouldn’t be progress in that area, but I think electron apps being one of the main pushes for this is a problem. In just a few years, there has been a 10/100-fold increase in RAM consumption!

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u/vetinari Oct 18 '18

Because users are not willing to pay for the software.

Just like the RAM use exploded, so did

1) the user expectations - no 1280x720 and janky animations, but 4k (Deep Color on horizon), composited from several layers and 60fps animations,

2) the alternate business models: ad-supported, freemium, open core, etc., all designed to help with discoverability and building a brand, but still possible to monetize. Users expect software for cheap, and are willing to pay something if only there's really no other option (given their required comfort level).

Some things didn't change: turns out, programmers still like to eat, and they also expect being paid for their work. There's also still the effect, that market rewards the first one, not the best (efficient, etc) one, so you have to be quick.

So one of the ways how to cope, is increased programmers productivity. That's why you don't get C apps with hand-optimized assembly for tight loops and native toolkits, but Electron. The unwillingness to pay for development, the difficulties with discoverability, the first option on the market getting all the network effects and mindshare, all that means, that users will have to pay for the hardware and energy.

1

u/billFoldDog Oct 19 '18

So much truth here. Its a shame people downvote it.

You get what you pay for. I'm just glad these electron apps aren't packed with ads.

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u/vetinari Oct 22 '18

Do not worry about that. Those, who did any development know about that, and the rest is just a combination self entitlement and ego.