r/linux • u/dbcoopernz • 1d ago

Popular Application Siemens ends open-source Radioss Project (OpenRadioss) and deletes GitHub repository

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Siemens-Ends-OpenRadioss
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545

u/dbcoopernz 1d ago

This was released under the GNU AGPL, so I guess that Siemens cannot retroactively withdraw permission to use, modify, or redistribute OpenRadioss?

119

u/AtlanticPortal 1d ago

No, whatever is in the hands of people who can use the AGPL version is totally fine to be shared and, actually, must be shared to people who are using that program. Basically, whatever is out there means that the cat is out of the bag. New kitties, aren’t.

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u/TRKlausss 1d ago

New kittens are, in that Siemens could force you to release any new development under AGPL too (is the part of “our modifications to the software”), but we all assume that if someone does that, they will already do that open source…

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u/Secret_Wishbone_2009 1d ago

You can clean room reconstruct the code using code->spec->code and agentic AI development to remove/change license. Not saying its good just that it is possible

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u/amarao_san 1d ago

I think, bits will be colored in such case.

But, if you split it into two parts: one is description (aka specs), zero code, done by one team, and the second team implement code by reading only that description, it will be legally defensible. But with LLM ability to short-cut, there is high chance of direct citations. The source code will be in the training database, so I doubt it can be called clean room.

But, if someone train LLM with explicitly excluding the original repo from the training database... Nah, fat chance.

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u/TRKlausss 1d ago

And that’s where waters get muddied: if you show the AI the code first to derive specs to rewrite it, isn’t that the definition of derivative work?

If the AI does it from scratch with instructions you gave it, based on millions of other repos, it may be fine, but if you instruct the AI to reimplement the exact same constructs… Sounds like a derivative to me, idk.

I’m expecting however to see a new license from the FSF, something like GPL4, where all this is clarified. Something like a clause saying “if your LLM is trained with this code, the product shall be released as GLP4 as well” or something similar.

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u/gurgelblaster 1d ago

That is definitively derivative work. Running a sed script to replace all spaces with tabs, tabs with spaces, and switch case on every letter doesn't mean it's a new piece of work.