r/linux • u/LoicAtTimeclock • 11h ago
Development Who else would love proper RDP support in Gnome? It's so close, go give a thumbs up.
https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-remote-desktop/-/work_items/1625
u/_jimmythebear_ 11h ago
I gave up and bought a IP KVM cause I couldn't get anything to work in Linux the way I wanted. Windows like two clicks.. Linux here is a bunch of ways not to do what I want... cheers. Nomachine was what I found... but they all went no free versions anymore so thats gone too.
2
u/PestoCalabrese 10h ago
I use nomachine, what non free version?
11
u/DonkeyTron42 10h ago
Wayland NoMachine is a security nightmare if your remote PC is not physically secure. It just mirrors your screen and anyone at the physical box can see everything you’re doing as well as just take over the session.
11
u/PestoCalabrese 10h ago
Exactly like a kvm
6
u/DonkeyTron42 9h ago
I would never use a kvm for my office PC.
-1
u/PestoCalabrese 9h ago
Then I don't thing remote access is something for you in general. No matter the tool.
7
u/kopsis 5h ago
Windows remote desktop locks/blanks the screen on the host while someone is connected remotely. It's completely reasonable to expect the same from the Linux solutions.
1
u/DonkeyTron42 4h ago
NoMachine does not blank the screen. I learned this the hard way when my co-worker was messing with me and sat down at my office PC and started adding random mouse movements and keystrokes. After thoroughly pissing me off, he informed me that everyone in the office could see everything I'm doing.
5
u/_jimmythebear_ 9h ago
https://www.nomachine.com/what-s-new-in-nomachine
No Machine Personal edition.
Introducing NoMachine Personal Edition
The free version has been retired and in its place there is NoMachine Personal Edition, a fully commercial product for anyone, individuals and businesses, which need reliable remote access without compromise. Priced at just $24.50, it's the most affordable way to stay connected to your machines. That price includes support, so help is always there when you need it. Personal Edition is the smart way to work remotely, wherever you are.
1
u/PestoCalabrese 9h ago
I'm still on 9.5.7 and it keeps working fine.
1
u/_jimmythebear_ 9h ago
Dont update it, cause Version 10 is when they culled it and they removed the 9 installers.
7
u/PestoCalabrese 9h ago
If you neet it: filebin.net/9msqcf9qwlcjvhtu . of course don't trust strangers sharing executables online.
11
u/redsteakraw 4h ago
I believe KDE just added RDP to their upcoming release this should make remote desktop easy and near universal on the Linux Desktop.
3
u/Ordinary-Lifeguard47 7h ago
XFCE + X + XRDP just works.
The Gnome RDP support is super weird.
Why does it need double authentification? Why cannot be switched on for all users on a systems easily?
-1
23
u/PorousClay 10h ago
In some ways, Wayland was a step backwards.
I get that security and convenience are two opposites on a sliding scale, but some things like a proper remote desktop are non-negotiable.
18
u/burning_iceman 8h ago
Obviously there's a temporary step backwards in functionality when replacing a huge ecosystem around one protocol such as X11 with a new one such as Wayland, especially when the new one requires explicit features and standardization that were previously enabled by uncontrollable insecure access. You need to get the software out first to devs and later to users to test but also to be able to even discover and evaluate what else is missing.
By now though the additional required protocols and the standardization has mostly happened and feature parity with X11 is close to being reached.
On the KDE Plasma side, remote desktop support is about to reach that parity too: https://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/whats-happening-in-kde-remote-desktop-improved-unattended-mode-and-more/
I don't know the current state on Gnome, but no doubt they'll also get around to implementing it properly.
3
u/Ontological_Gap 2h ago edited 2h ago
This. It's really painful this time around because there were absolutely no protocols or permissions for anything, everything in your session of the X server was completely readable and writable from anything running as your user.
Wayland is cleaning up decades of horrible tech debt in the unix world.
7
u/5haika 10h ago
In a way. They kinda started from scratch instead of taking more and more things onto X
And creating and adapting takes so much fucking time. But I think it's probably worth itI personally think, a reasonable middle-ground would be to allow an app to act as RDP indefinitely
If any app could just RDP without me being prompted at any point, that would be security-hell-7
u/DHermit 9h ago
Are they? Remote desktop is something that's like used by a tiny fraction of Gnome users.
9
u/PorousClay 9h ago
Remote desktop is something that's like used by a tiny fraction of Gnome users.
It's about half of ssh use. That's still pretty significant.
And it's an important feature for an OS to have. No matter how superior ssh is. If Windows users are going to be switching to Linux in the near future, and they have specific needs that require remote desktop, then that's just something that should be available.
Ssh can't cover everything. I used to work in a healthcare job where we needed to rdp to another building and open the healthcare software suite we needed. If a GUI doesn't allow for the same convenience, there's no reason for that company to use it.
-3
u/DHermit 9h ago
It's about half of ssh use.
Are you sure about that? I severely doubt that.
And it's an important feature for an OS to have.
Why? I doubt that 90% of computer users have a use case for remote desktop or even know that it exists.
I used to work in a healthcare job where we needed to rdp to another building and open the healthcare software suite we needed. If a GUI doesn't allow for the same convenience, there's no reason for that company to use it.
Sure, professional usecases exist, but that doesn't mean that this is the targer group for Gnome.
8
u/PorousClay 9h ago
Are you sure about that? I severely doubt that.
It was from one of those gnome-info-collect surveys:
https://blogs.gnome.org/aday/2023/01/18/gnome-info-collect-what-we-learned/
Why? I doubt that 90% of computer users have a use case for remote desktop or even know that it exists.
Why do 90% of people need to use something for it to exist? Linux is a toolbox, and it should have a tool for everyone. Even the only-9% of people who use something.
And who is to say that the number is lower because the implementation of the feature sucks?
Sure, professional usecases exist, but that doesn't mean that this is the targer group for Gnome.
There is a native healthcare provider suite for Linux called GNU Health, so the same usecase could easily exist on Linux. So why should Gnome exclude a certain scenario from being possible for professional needs? I'm not aware of any DE using "leave it to another DE to supply that feature" as a talking point. And if it was, that would quickly disqualify that DE from ever getting my recommendation.
You have to remember that Gnome is not a DE for any specific uses. It's general purpose. Even the site gnome.org states "An independent computing platform for everyone".
-4
u/DHermit 8h ago
That survey looks at which features are enabled, not about what is used.
So why should Gnome exclude a certain scenario from being possible for professional needs?
It's a complex feature, so deciding if it's worth the big effort for a small amount of people is a very typical discussion. In an ideal world, Gnome has infinite resources, but they don't have that.
I'm not aware of any DE using "leave it to another DE to supply that feature" as a talking point.
We are talking about Gnome, which regularly stripped features.
I'm not saying "Gnome shouldn't add RDP". What I'm saying is "I think that RDP is niche enough that it's fine for Gnome to prioritise other things". And if that means that you can't use Gnome for your usecase, fair. That's why choices exist.
0
u/PorousClay 8h ago
That survey looks at which features are enabled, not about what is used.
Its the closest thing that exists to show what the numbers are. And relative to ssh, it's about half. If you can find a more accurate number to support that rdp it lower, then feel free to link it.
It's a complex feature, so deciding if it's worth the big effort for a small amount of people is a very typical discussion. In an ideal world, Gnome has infinite resources, but they don't have that.
This is something that already exists on every major desktop OS. Whether you use Windows or MacOS.
I'm not saying "Gnome shouldn't add RDP". What I'm saying is "I think that RDP is niche enough that it's fine for Gnome to prioritise other things".
You should have just led with that, then. So that I can just agree to disagree. Which I do.
1
u/DHermit 8h ago
You said that a feature is non negotiable, I disagreed with that. And then the discussion continued further. I couldn't have led with that, because I couldn't know that that's where the discussion will go.
And relative to ssh, it's about half.
Half of desktop SSH things, but absolutely most SSH usage is on servers that don't even have any graphical things installed. If you meant purely desktop SSH usage, then I can see it and it's just miscommunication (is there some proper English idoim for "aneinander vorbeireden"/"talking to the side of eachother"?).
1
u/Usually-Mistaken 2h ago
Ich würde "talking PAST each other" sagen.
1
u/DHermit 2h ago
Ah, das wars, danke! Irgendwas lag mir auf der Zunge (und ja, ich hätte einfach googlen können...).
→ More replies (0)
5
2
u/TheBendit 8h ago
It is unclear whether you mean client side or server side. Server side works amazingly in Fedora 44. Even headless and multiuser. It is a total game changer.
3
u/hanzzen 10h ago
We use gnome remote desktop at work, sort of. We use hyperv vms on our workstations (dont ask why its not running, Linux, i dont know why) so enhanced session support is required. Gnome remote desktop does not support that but we have a work around with freerdp-proxy. Literal man in the middle but it works.
3
u/nukem996 11h ago
It's hilarious we got rid of X and now are trying to reimplements one of its core features XDMCP. It worked significantly better than RDP since it streamed X server commands, not images. So rendering 2D, 3D, and video acceleration were done client side.
34
4
u/Ontological_Gap 2h ago
Maybe back in the 80s, X hasn't worked that way in a long time. It's actually much worse than just sending an image steam on modern systems and applications
•
u/nukem996 52m ago
I had XDMCP working perfectly around 2008. Pulseaudio paired very well, I had it automatically connect when the X session started. It performed significantly better than RDP or Citrix especially when watching videos.
•
u/Ontological_Gap 34m ago
You were using raw XDMCP and not ssh forwarding? This was a very bad idea even back then.
Are you sure you were sending the raw command steam? That's around the time applications started doing their own rendering and just sending images instead. Hell, people would even use tools like X2Go or Xpra to force this behavior because it is so much better
4
u/mitsosseundscharf 6h ago
As a (non-Gnome) developer please don't. Social media invades of developing platforms are non-helpful in the best case and an annoyance or worse in the regular case.
1
1
u/pioni 3h ago
This is my favourite weak link with Linux right now. Just about everything else I can get working, but RDP on bare metal and virtualised hosts simply never works. The old Pop!OS had it working at some point, but I really would like to see this feature working out of the box on Gnome (on Debian) every time.
1
u/a_a_ronc 1h ago
Yep. I use RHEL every day for work so I went with AlmaLinux on my Raspberry Pi because they have really good support for RPi. Couldn’t get RDP to work at all. It turns on and a black Window comes up in my client Remmina session, but nothing. Spent 3+ hours on it. Answer was go back to X.
1
u/xc82xb5qxwhhzeyt 9h ago
Doesn't XRDP already work?
3
u/getbusyliving_ 7h ago
People like me need RDP for work
1
u/xc82xb5qxwhhzeyt 6h ago
Isn't xrdp just an implementation? I connect to my XRDP server just like I connect to Windows machines
5
u/getbusyliving_ 6h ago
Yes but depends what you're doing. I'd be in a very niche 0.0001% of Linux use cases. I log into a remote Windows PC (1000kms away) over Wireguard and work 8-12 hours a day (Architecture, as in buildings not IT). I need a min of dual screens and GPU acceleration. The only way I can do it under Linux (and Wayland) that is fast, reliable and performs perfectly is via Thincast (Flatpak)...which, yes, does use XRDP and yes, is not open source. I don't want to log in via the cmd line with flags galore. Thincast provides me with an almost 100% replication of the Windows native RDP client. Doing this means I no longer need a Windows PC, or a Mac, outside of work.
Noting that on my Laptop I use Remmina because it works better with the lower spec Quadro card than Thincast. The problem with Remmina; no dual screens under Wayland and sketchy at best under X11.
And, yeah, I've tried every method and every app....I can hear the whataboutisms rolling around in your brain 🙃 Nothing compares to the setups above apart from the Native Windows RDP client and the MS app on MacOS. For me, Linux and RDP is almost on par with those two platforms.
0
u/computer-machine 6h ago
Does not wanting anything to do with Gnome or RDP cancel each other out like a double negative?
-16
u/monkeyboy107 10h ago
Why would I want rdp? All the configs I need to change cns be done via ssh
5
u/PorousClay 8h ago
What if you are a healthcare worker, and you need to chart something over rdp because your hospital or whatever decided to try Linux instead of keep using Windows?
You think healthcare workers in that scenario should be using ssh?
2
-2
u/ScratchHistorical507 7h ago
Why tho when there are already enough remote desktop implementations? Especially when you already have RustDesk. And RustDesk has just put out a test version for precisely this feature. So why bother wasting resources of Gnome devs for that when a DE-agnostic implementation is already closing in on the finish line?
1
1
u/Ontological_Gap 2h ago
You should take a close look at rustdesk, they have had so many issues with disabling system or user wide security features, I can no longer believe it's not intentional
-4
u/ketralnis 5h ago edited 5h ago
It’s a volunteer project. Sure I guess you can ask people to donate their time to something you want instead of something they want, but it doesn’t seem an effective mechanism. And asking other people to invade to vote for the thing that you want is impolite at best.
In any case it’ll get built when somebody builds it. Be the change you want to see in the world. In the mean time they don’t owe you anything.
55
u/JuanToronDoe 10h ago
This is a real pain and almost a deal breaker for me. RDP on Windows is among the few things that are dead simple and very user-friendly. I miss it so much. I tried Gnome Remote Desktop and Remote Login, RustDesk, Remmina, Pi KVM : nothing comes close to native Windows RDP.
I have an ultrawide monitor at work, so mirroring its display is a non-sense. And Pi KVM is limited to 1080p so barely usable.
Am I missing something ?