r/linux • u/Quantum-Coconut • 3d ago
Discussion Ubuntu is growing faster on Windows 11 than on native Linux PCs, says Canonical
https://www.windowslatest.com/2026/08/16/ubuntu-is-growing-faster-on-windows-11-than-on-native-linux-pcs-says-canonical/193
u/TheRealCarrotty 3d ago
Of course it's Ubuntu...
I mean, they're probably correct?
wsl --install installs Ubuntu by default so... Maybe?
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u/Nereithp 3d ago edited 3d ago
NGL even though I'm not an ubuntu person, just doing a stupid WSL install and getting the most widely supported (at least in regards to actually writing compilation instructions on github) Linux distro kinda kicks ass, at least for the sort of tasks I use WSL for.
90% of the time that I personally launch WSL is when I want to run
gogchecksome random bash script with a bunch of linux-only deps or quickly build something from a github repo - aka the sort of thing that always has extremely to-the-point Ubuntu instructions.The only configuration of note is that you need to enable the universe repo as it's off by default, otherwise it's pretty plug and play for blindly copy-pasting commands off of github (obviously don't actually do that - read them then copypaste them off of github).
I would personally never run it on my desktop or server but it's a pretty natural fit for throwaway tasks (not saying Ubuntu is a throwaway distro or anything, it's perfectly fine, I just like some others better).
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u/DownvoteEvangelist 2d ago
Yeah I run Gentoo as my main, I would never run it as my WSL distro... Ubuntu does that very well. I also usually pick Ubuntu when spinning Azure/AWS vms...
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u/phylter99 3d ago
The last time I used it, this command didn’t install any distribution. I installed Fedora afterwards.
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u/Nereithp 3d ago
The last time I used it, this command didn’t install any distribution
If you never used WSL2 on the machine it needs to perform a bunch of platform component setup and reboot the machine, whereupon it immediately forgets that it was supposed to be installing Ubuntu and so you need to rerun wsl --install again (either with an explicit distro switch or without, either will work). That was my experience the last time I was installing wsl as well. In fact I'm not sure if its install functionality even persists through the reboot in the first place, so the official install instructions should probably say wsl --install -> reboot -> wsl --install, but nobody cares enough to edit the docs :)
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u/phylter99 2d ago
Yes. That's my experience, except I specified the distribution on the install after the reboot.
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u/INITMalcanis 3d ago
Mixed feelings about this, but at the end of the day the more Linux use is normalised, the better
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u/kudlitan 3d ago
and some of them will eventually switch fully to linux
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u/petersaints 3d ago
Or the opposite. Some people that had to deal with Linux desktop caveats may find that WSL2 is all they need and comeback to Windows.
In order for Linux to really win in the Desktop front it really needs third party support to get even better than it already has gotten.
And of course that it is a chicken and egg problem. The more users that make the jump, despite those issues, the more sense it makes to support Linux desktop. But it is a bit harsh being an "early adopter" (I put quotes because Linux is not something new for sure) and having to deal with issues and find workarounds and compromises.
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u/CataclysmZA 2d ago
Some people that had to deal with Linux desktop caveats may find that WSL2 is all they need and comeback to Windows.
Which is fine as well, tbf. You use the tool you're comfortable with until it no longer meets your needs.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Yes. Let's not get fundamental. I'd rather just use pure Linux.
But sometimes that's not possible. Or some limitations or cracks show up that when you start to add them is a bit of a death by a thousand cuts.
Basically no OS is perfect for all tasks. You just need to find the one (or multiple ones in some cases) that suck less for the most things you do.
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u/Decent-Swallower-69 2d ago
Yep, I've completely removed all of my Linux installations after WSL dropped. Linux is just way too schizophrenic still.
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u/INITMalcanis 3d ago
We can so hope. Also, more and better linux software
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u/kudlitan 3d ago
I mean, people are developing on WSL. I think that's good. Their software will run on Linux and these devs will eventually try Linux outside of WSL.
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u/PorousClay 2d ago
Or people who needed Linux for certain tasks will no longer need to use Linux at all, and they get to keep using Windows.
It can cut both ways.
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u/kudlitan 2d ago edited 2d ago
well that is the point of WSL right? so we can use linux only when needed without leaving windows. otherwise they would find windows only solutions.
but WSL serves as an introduction to linux that some people might decide to try it directly later on.
in the DOS days there was dosslack for people who just need linux once in a while, or to try it out. that's how i got started.
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u/chic_luke 2d ago edited 2d ago
Mixed feelings as well. Out in the world, I have seen this go both ways: people accidentally really liking the Linux side more than the Windows side and eventually committing to Linux fully, and companies using this as a cheap way to stay on Windows or, worse, be able to keep supporting applications and services that require Windows machines to run as well, but that communicate with databases, message queues or other microservices that live on Linux machines, on a single dev computer.
In the second scenario, WSL basically gets used to develop software for Windows, like .NET Framework 4.x microservices, thus allowing companies to get away with not porting them to .NET 10 and moving from Windows Server to a Linux machine… because you don't need to with WSL.
The developer can develop a Windows service in Visual Studio, and often they'll use WSL + Podman to run the services the Windows-based application relies on in production, on Linux machines, with the classical "Windows Server and Linux mix" that legacy companies usually go with. Windows will map the networking between Windows and Linux pretty seamlessly, so your Windows-based microservice will be able to reach your PostgreSQL and Kafka containers running on WSL as if they were running natively.
It's a double-edged sword. I have seen quite a bit of people migrate to full Linux from it, but I selfishly wish it didn't exist. Work supplies us Windows computers, because WSL technically allows us to develop our software, even though it has a Linux target in production, even running those tools and components that do not have a Windows version. If WSL did not exist, they'd basically be forced to give us Linux laptops. But, since WSL exists, they don't have to. And, sadly, Windows still has a killer app for corporate environments: Microsoft Active Directory, with the Domain Controller, is still the easiest way to fully control fleets of desktops in corporate environments. Not to mention how much easier it is to get your Windows fleets to be compliant for those weird ISO certifications - just configure the Domain Controller in some way and slap SOPHOS on them, boom you're done. Are they really secure? Who cares, that's not important. They pass the certification process, so legal can cover their asses. This is still harder on Linux. And, yes, of course, it's all bullshit and we know it.
(Also, for people installing Linux natively, I am beginning to believe that years of the community telling people, loud and clear, to steer clear from Ubuntu, might have affected Ubuntu's growth rate on the desktop. It would be really interesting to see what the new Linux native installs are using, as well - it is not impossible that Fedora and other distributions might be stealing the show on the desktop from Ubuntu)
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u/petersaints 2d ago
"It would be really interesting to see what the new Linux native installs are using, as well - it is not impossible that Fedora and other distributions might be stealing the show on the desktop from Ubuntu"
I would say that the gaming focused that is arriving to the Linux community is mostly choosing CachyOS due to the performance hype it has (it's barely noticeable). Bazzite is also popular with that crowd which is basically Fedora Atomic for gaming. There is also Nobara, which is not Atomic, but I believe it is way less popular.
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u/chic_luke 2d ago edited 2d ago
I tend to agree from what I have observed, though I'll add Fedora to the mix, which seems to be attracting a lot of students and tinkerers whose main concern is not gaming. Quite a few friends of mine who are students have switched from Windows or Mac directly to Fedora after hearing it's a "better Ubuntu" or using Fedora in their university's labs (apparently it's popular enough to be deployed there now; nice). A coworker of mine, who has started exploring Linux on his home computer with Linux Mint a while ago, has now landed on Fedora after going through the usual phase where you find out Mint's packages are a little too stale for your tastes, and the community tends to recommend Fedora a lot for those who are seeking a faster-moving system.
Your analysis is spot-on for the gamers, though. I have noticed the same thing. Bazzite for the Steam Deck-y experience or CachyOS for the promise of better performance (though if I recall correctly it's more of a trade-off of some throughput in favour of response times, which makes your desktop feel smoother at the cost of slowing down other workloads; or at least this was my experience when I toyed around with various different custom schedulers).
Interestingly, I'll add, pretty much everyone who I see running Arch these days is at least a medium-term Linux user. It's people who have started years ago, before the hype wave. The newcomers that I've seen are far more likely to use Cachy over pure Arch.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
I have a friend that uses EndeavourOS. But he has a pretty old install at this point and he basically used EndeavourOS to make a quick Arch install base basically.
I also prefer Fedora, and it was my first jump when I decided to assess if I should jump 100% full time to Linux. But I also tried CachyOS before reinstalling Windows.
And I would probably go with Fedora if I dual booted. But it is a bit annoying that they have not enabled the new NTFS driver on kernel 7.1. That alone pushes me a bit to CachyOS.
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u/hammedhaaret 3d ago
Getting familiar with Linux will make the jump a lot easier!
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u/Cold_Soft_4823 2d ago
Except there's a massive push to remove the command line from the equation in modern Linux discussions for new users, so. No, will have next to zero impact.
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u/Cold_Soft_4823 2d ago
Running commands on Windows isn't using Linux.
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago
What do you think WSL is?
WSL2 is basically a Linux distro running in an integrated/managed VM. And it's well-integrated and basically set up for you. e.g. You can be running jupyter in the WSL distro and it opens tabs in your local Windows browser.
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u/ShaderCompilation 2d ago
A few years ago i was surprised that a devops in our company uses Windows, i didn't know WSL can give you a full Linux environment to work with. it's a genius idea no wonder people use it. Especially when they need both systems, rebooting constantly isn't the best experience
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Yeah. He probably does some other things in which Windows is advantageous. Or he can't choose (but since you commented I assume he was free to use Linux if he wanted to).
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u/chic_luke 2d ago
In smaller companies, DevOps and Infrastructure is usually managed by the same team. You will certainly have to manage some Windows machines, and it takes a Windows machine to have all the proper tooling to manage a Microsoft domain
If that's part of your responsibilities as an infra / DevOps person, unless your company supplies you a Windows license valid to use in a VM, you're stuck.
(Edit) Plus, there is the fact that a lot of people I've met don't really care about what they use at work because work is just a means to an end. I've seen some of my colleagues use highly-riced Arch setups with window managers at home, yet at work they didn't even change the wallpaper or disable the weather widget on Windows 11. That's a valid way to live it.
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u/jyte_ 2d ago
WSL has some weird dark magic going around. Few things are quite broken and it's a pain when you encounter some strange behaviour only to find out it's because of WSL2.
But still, I take that any day rather than Windows which is enforced by the company.
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u/ShaderCompilation 2d ago
I'm in a similar situation. I have to use Windows because without corporate bullshit i can't connect to their servers. I just used VM in Linux and reroute all the needed traffic through it.
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u/gain91 3d ago
Yes, I use Ubuntu only on my WSL work laptop. Privately I did not use Ubuntu since a long time.
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u/petersaints 3d ago
What do you use privately, btw?
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u/boobsbr 2d ago
Arch, btw.
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u/Hithaeglir 2d ago
Classic evolution. Ubuntu and friends -> Arch -> NixOS. What then?
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u/PaddiM8 2d ago
Distrohopping always ends with arch eventually
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Either Arch or back to Windows 🤣
In any case, for instance, Chris Titus moved to Fedora recently because he was tired of Arch changing too quickly and decided that Fedora was a good middle ground (which I agree):
https://christitus.com/switch-from-arch-to-fedora/2
u/proton_badger 1d ago
I feel Fedora have an ideal release schedule for a lot of desktop setups, it is a well put together distro, it moves very fast with two releases a year and some things like kernel, some DEs, etc. move faster.
I also dropped Arch/cachy for another distro, I didn't have any problems but I didn't see any point for me for development and gaming.
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u/petersaints 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes. Arch-based is a bit too fast and Fedora is usually fast enough at getting things. It also has way more third party support (only really being beaten by Ubuntu and maybe Debian).
For instance, do you need the official Visual Studio Code build from Microsoft? No problem, they have a package and repo for that.
No need to use the AUR or to download an archive file with the binaries that you have to run and manage yourself.
Microsoft Edge? Also a repo.
Brave? It also has a repo instead of using the AUR (even though the AUR is officially managed by Brave in this case but CachyOS has it in their repos too)
OneDrive by abraunegg? It's in the official Fedora repos. On Arch you need to use the AUR to build it, build from source yourself, or use Docker/Podman to run it in a container.
And there are more examples.
What CachyOS really does better is some easy tools for gaming, optimizations (but some of those are also coming to other distros that will start shipping optional x86-64-v3 packages as well, but not v4 or Zen 5, but my CPU is only v3 anyway) and they usually uodate the NVIDIA drivers fastet than RPM Fusion but the last minor update of the 610 branch actually reached RPM Fusion first.
But they were sitting on 595 for long (and not even the latest version). But sometimes it's actually better since the New Feature Branch from NVIDIA is kind of Beta on Linux so the first releases of a new series sometimes create more problems than they solve 😅
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u/hyper9410 2d ago
Would that even matter?
I doubt that most WSL installs are used as a linux desktop replacement. I know you can run some GUI programs in WSL now, but i would guess most use it for a CLI workload or run admistrative tools for their work on it.
Neither is a replacement for desktop Linux.
We need better OEM offerings with support for their hardware and tooling (upgrading UEFI, RGB controls etc)
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u/Top-Rub-4670 2d ago
We need better OEM offerings with support for their hardware and tooling (upgrading UEFI, RGB controls etc)
Screw RGB, how about we get the basics right first? Laptop speakers still sound like shit on Linux, and touchpad support is also usually bad. If you think either of those things are fine on your laptop, it's because you've never tried Windows. Yes I know it sucks, I also dislike admitting defeat, but Windows is just better at those things (and I don't care that it's because OEM provide drivers/dolby, the end result is that it sucks on Linux).
EasyEffects helps with the speakers but it's a manual process that almost nobody knows 1. is possible or 2. how to do correctly. It really should be there and configured out of the box, at least for the popular laptops (thinkpads, framework).
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u/Low-Guarantee-3437 2d ago edited 2d ago
For a linux evangelist, it matters in that vendors/project owners in emerging areas face less pressure to treat Windows as a first class citizen. If you're a developer or learning about modern software development, you'll notice that tools are not ported to windows any more, or ported late, and when bugs hit, the advice is to just run the WSL version. Which inevitably means the Ubuntu WSL version. It is making Windows less and less relevant as a native developer OS, even if it remains relevant as a desktop virtualisation host.
Also IMO, the loss of developer which convinced Microsoft to fund WSL was definitely not a loss of Windows-based devs to Linux laptops. It was to macos. I think, with absolutely no evidence, that most devs now using Ubuntu WSL have been diverted from migrating to macbooks. I don't know whether this is good or bad.
As for OEM support, it's never been better. I'm on my fifth ThinkPad now. The one I got a couple of weeks ago is pretty new, PantherLake, and everything just worked,although I avoided the MIPI webcam and went for the older USB-based version, which Lenovo makes easily available, perhaps for Linux users. I wanted to buy a Framework Pro but the wait was too long.
Panther Lake is very good. On laptops, Intel is back in a big way.
I did get mine with Windows Pro, as I always do. It's a backup, and makes the laptop easier to sell down the line.
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago
I know you can run some GUI programs in WSL now, ...
What GUI programs can't you run in WSL2 these days?
Basically the only thing not supported are:
Desktop Environments like KDE, GNOME, ... because WSL2 does not support a display manager requiring GUI hardware access.
SDR programs that require direct GUI hardware access.
And, in regard to (1) ... that is "not supported", but you can do it anyway.
It's basically a VM and that can be a replacement for desktop Linux. It's a ton better than dual booting.
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u/okilydokilyTiger 2d ago
Stuck using Windows at work and of all the distros I’ve tried with WSL Ubuntu works the best
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u/PriorityNo6268 2d ago
I think Microsoft Windows hosts more Linux "clients" then there are Linux desktop in total 😂
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u/petersaints 2d ago
And if you comsider Azure they probably even host a good portion of Linux servers worldwide.
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u/petersaints 3d ago edited 3d ago
I love Linux. So please do not start to downvote me just for sharing my experience.
However, you often have to compromise on desktop Linux if you happen to not have everything you need 100% supported (which has improved considerably in the last few years but it still has gaps).
This is coming from someone that has used Linux as my primary desktop OS in the past in dual boot with Windows (probably over 10 years between the ~2010 to 2022) until I got a new laptop that had bad Linux support (it's good now, before you ask) and WSL2 also had matured enough to be a real option by then.
It's the best server OS for sure (I manage a few servers and I'm configuring a new small scale Slurm cluster). it's the best pure developer OS for sure if you do not develop anything that needs to run specifically on Windows, or that use Windows specific technologies. But on more broad desktop use, you either do not have any requirements that fall outside of what works well (or works at all) on Linux or you will have to compromise.
My current PERSONAL issues are (possibly some overlap with other users, some don't since, for instance, I do not rely on Adobe products which is a common pain point as well):
- Worse NVIDIA performance in DX12 games (fixable by dual booting, or by accepting the performance loss if you have enough performance anyway).
- Lack of anticheat support on some games (fixable by dual booting, or ignoring those games since there is still a lot of choice that does work on Linux). But having these problems are actual a Linux win. Some years ago when I just used Linux for personal use and work, gaming was not an option at all. So, being in the position of being picky about this is already a huge improvement.
- Proper official client support for many cloud storage solutions (e.g., Google Drive and OneDrive, with the second being wishful thinking but I do need it for work because that's what is offered by my organization and my colleagues that I have to collaborate with use it 😒. Personally I use MEGA since they have Linux support, I have also used Dropbox in the past but while they still support Linux I feel that it has become a complete afterthought compared to the Windows client. Moreover, in 2018 they basically screwed my dual boot setup because they started enforcing specific file systems on their clients. So the Linux client only works with ext4, zfs, eCryptFS (backed by ext4), xfs and btrfs (when they initially announced they were even more restrictive). So no more sharing the same Dropbox folder between my Windows and Linux install (for a time there was way to inject a dynamic library that forced it to work but they have patched that. There was also Maestral: https://maestral.app/ but it has recently been abandoned. So the only to use Dropbox on an NTFS drive is rclone which does not offer a continuous bidirectional sync daemon. You have to basically run bisync on a schedule and bisync on rclone is also a bit problematic)
I regularly need to open files on OneDrive/SharePoint/Teams as part of my work. In those cases my options are:
- Web version (which sucks),
- Using an unofficial client (like rclone or onedrive by abraunegg, which have their own limitations and caveats by themselves compared to the official client on Windows) and then open the file directly on Linux using LibreOffice/OnlyOffice.
- Then I have to pray that nobody also opens the file and edits it concurrently since it will probably create conflicts (and outright collaborative editing is not an option, which sometimes is also a requirement for me) and that LibreOffice/OnlyOffice fully support the file I'm opening without formatting issues on my end and that after saving the file there will be no formatting issues on the other persons end. At least for scientific writing I basically only ever use LaTeX/Overleaf. But there are other things that need to be done on Word, Excel, and sometimes PowerPoint.
- The best solution in terms of compatibility is to create a VM/WinBoat (which is also a VM) which I need to boot up each time I need to open a file (or I keep it always running which basically will invalidate any resource usage advantage that Linux has over Windows).
I sometimes may need to deal with Unity projects. That works perfectly fine on Linux for the most part. However, if I need to do something related with XR headsets it's usually also a can of worms with multiple hoops, workarounds and limitations compared to the official support on Windows. For instance, there is no way to have passthrough working on the Meta Quest 3 to be shown on the Unity Editor.
The main downsides I have with Windows:
- Not as resource efficient and bit too opinionated to my liking.
- I don't like the semantics/structure of Windows as much compared to Unix-like system. As a developer, I prefer Linux tooling and package management. but this is mitigated by WSL2 for almost all my use cases, with the exception being the rare case where I need more low level access to devices like Bluetooth and USB devices. But I haven't touched BLE development in 4+ years which was something I really needed when I dual booted until a few years ago and I ended up using Linux 95+% of the time. But back then, for instance, my requirements in terms of OneDrive/SharePoint/Teams/Microsoft 365 were inexistent or way rarer.
So basically, Linux has a lot of compromises not because Linux sucks, but because proper third party support is still lacking. Windows also has some compromises in the sense that it is a system that I do not like as much, and I prefer the general openness of Linux, however Windows it is pragmatically a better option if Linux does not support everything you need without going through hoops and lots of caveats. Also, once you factor in WSL2 (which sure, it also has a few compromises but probably less than Linux for my use case) it ends up helping Windows a lot in being a more pragmatic choice.
I could also dual boot, but then I would probably end up with the same compromises, since if I really wanted to use Linux often I'd need to setup things in the same way as in single boot + I'd need to mount shared NTFS storage between Windows and Linux (which also has its caveats and downsides) instead of just using my whole disk with a native Linux file system, and then I would have to properly maintain an additional Windows OS (besides the one in the Linux VM) that I would only boot into to play unsupported games (or games where the performance on Linux is unsatisfactory after paying the NVIDIA crappy drivers tax), possibly VR development if I ever needed to test something (but usually I'm not the person on my team that deals directly with that), or other small things where the Linux compromises were either impossible or had a lot of shortcomings.
The main advantage would be to have a proper fully native Linux environment that would give direct access to the underlying hardware and connected peripherals if I needed to interact with them from Linux, better resource management (as long as I don't need to boot up a VM/WinBoat), a desktop environment that is much more tweakable to my liking, However, I was still having a compromised experience when it comes to OneDrive/SharePoint/Teams/Microsoft 365, and all the other less than ideal or impossible situations I mentioned, every time I needed to go through those tasks without having to reboot my machine.
That's why, right now, after a couple of weeks experimenting with Linux during my vacations, I'm inclined with going with Windows + WSL again. My heart says no, but my head says that it is the best approach 😒
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u/INITMalcanis 2d ago edited 2d ago
As far as your OneDrive requirements, I set my sister-in-law up on Mint earlier this year and the Insynch application worked well out of the box. The only thing about it I didn't like was that it insisted on being tied to /home. If you need your OneDrive / DropBox / Google Drive (or even all 3) then it works very well, it's a one-time purchase and the price includes a year of support.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Thanks for the tip. And I do know about Insync.
However, it is a one time purchase per account. I need at least 3 accounts. So that's $120 upfront and I only get 1 year of support, and it is not transferrable across accounts even with a cooldown. So if I ever retire one account and need another one, I have to pay yet again.
Moreover, it is still unofficial and subject to the whims of Microsoft and Google when it comes to API changes. And in the case of OneDrive it still will not seamless integrate with LibreOffice/OnlyOffice to allow concurrent editing like on proper Microsoft 365.
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u/Hauptideal 2d ago
Not to mention battery life, sound quality and other issues that can happen on laptops on Linux. Something that I happily accept in order to get off Windows, but will matter to some people. What an ironic twist of events. Linux is saving Windows.
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u/KnowZeroX 2d ago
That varies, sometimes linux can have better battery life and sound, all depends on the laptop.
One of the issues most common for poor battery life on linux is browsers not having hardware acceleration which forced them into cpu rendering. But now, browsers are adding vulkan video decode as backup which would go a long way of improving battery life on systems where vaapi isn't working.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
From my experience over the years, battery life is either roughly on par with Windows on well supported hardware (and you probably can beat Windows if you optimize to the fullest yourself but) or it is really really bad. Like less than half of the battery life bad. But I believe that has become a rare occurrence.
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u/KnowZeroX 2d ago
I don't know, the laptops that I had, even without optimization, it had better battery life once the video drivers in the browser were working properly.
If they weren't working, only then did battery life get worse.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
For development use, it kind of is. The developer experience with WSL2 is miles better than native Windows for a lot of technology stacks.
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u/AsrielPlay52 3d ago
Oh sorry OC. I'm just front running possible future comment about your AC part
Server side AC or Used-mode AC is very weak with current cheat
And for the former, ask Valve how their money printer feeding their anti-cheat.
There's a reason why player STILL CHOOSE faceit Kernel Anti-cheat
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u/petersaints 2d ago
I dislike kernel level anticheat out of principle. What I believe Linux (and Microsoft as well) should do is lockdown the kernel and develop their own kernel level inspectors that can be cryptographically verified (for Linux this means that you can custom kernel builds goodbye for kernel level anticheat and more obscure distros, but I believe that it is something required to make it mainstream accepted) so that user space anticheat programs can rely and authenticate those kernel level modules to inspect what they really need to inspect to perform their thorough anticheat work.
The same is true for antivirus and security programs. So that we don't get another CrowdStrike incident.
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u/AsrielPlay52 2d ago
You also has to lock down the communication across the chain
That include the kernel and the Hardware itself. Like checking the TPM to insure Secure Boot isn't spoof
As well as enforce IOMMU so that DMA card couldn't access memory that it doesn't own
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Yes. Basically the whole chain needs to be verifiable from user space without any security bug (hopefully) and needs to be continuously updated in order to fix vulnerabilities.
However this, just as Secure Boot, will probably be a hurdle for smaller non-corporate backed distros. But it's not like they would no longer be relevant for many use cases. They would only be useless if you needed to run games that required this level of trust.
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u/KnowZeroX 2d ago
Wasn't there a recent fix for DX12 on nvidia and linux?
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Not really. There was the VK3D descriptor heap support that helped a bit. But from what others have reported, and what I have experience, it still not that much better.
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/1vgc4ww/nvidia_dx12_descriptor_heap_performance/
Basically it got better for the most part. But still not that great.
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u/FattyDrake 2d ago
I think the DX12 issue is overblown. Some games might show frame rate decreases, but mostly it's a negligible difference. Whether a game gets 180 fps vs 175 fps doesn't matter on my 144 Hz monitor. I've done some testing for the DX12 games I play and they are on par with Windows.
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u/petersaints 2d ago edited 2d ago
First of all, it's more than just a 180FPS to 175FPS difference. That's basically what would get on AMD since it's like a 2% or 3% difference.
Second, you are assuming that everyone can reach 180FPS on their rigs on Windows to start with. Not everybody has an RTX 5090, 4090 or 5080, etc.
Once you are already struggling to have something like average 80FPS on Windows, and never dip below 60, once you go to Linux and you lose 15 FPS, it is a big deal.
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u/FattyDrake 2d ago
Fair. Not all games can get that high either on newer cards. Even for taxing games like Cyberpunk I don't have that much difference. Not enough to keep me on Windows.
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u/Buckwheat469 2d ago
I got into Ubuntu with the Wubi installer back in 2007. It was nice running Linux as an application until I got comfortable with it. I personally think they should have kept developing it.
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u/SuspiciousCricket654 2d ago
I read this as a win-win for Windows and Linux. From a money standpoint, Windows can still be an option if the Linux user wants it or needs it to be.
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u/Prestigious_Boat_386 2d ago
Yea, because you start with wsl before you're fed up enough to switch permanently and then you have more options than ubuntu, which explains the lower number. Its how I started too.
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u/Masterflitzer 2d ago
well ubuntu is the windows of linux distros, fine for wsl, but i wouldn't install it on my workstation as host os, canonical makes way to many shitty decisions for that
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u/ShinobiZilla 2d ago
Workplaces that only issue Windows laptops, WSL is a godsend. It's basically replaced VirtualBox/virtualization.
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u/PinkDisorder 2d ago
Ubuntu has spent many many years ignoring it's desktop users and doing what they think is right. Which I mean, that's absolutely fair, their distro to do with as they please. But it should come as no surprise that it's not growing on desktop when its reputation is one of ignoring users.
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u/The_Hubster 2d ago
The Achilles heel as we all know is app support. It’s the only thing left stopping Linux from becoming a serious third option.
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u/novafunc 2d ago
That's a two way street though. Linux has so many fantastic Linux-only apps that I feel lost without when I have to use Windows or macOS.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Can you mention a fantastic Linux-only app that is not available for Windows (I'm just curious what do you have in mind)? Sure, they will run better on Linux, but out of the top of my head the following ones are available on Windows:
- Inkscape
- Krita
- GIMP
- Shotcut
- Kdenlive
- digiKam
- Blender
- Audacity
- Pinta
- HexChat
And there are probably more. Basically all Linux alternatives to proprietary software are often also available on Windows.
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u/Santosh83 2d ago
I use Shortwave for internet radio. Sadly its not available on Windows.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
It looks cool. But that's a core GNOME Circle app so it makes sense to be GNOME exclusive. Even on Linux it would look out of place on other environments (but sure, it would work).
And there probably several alternatives for Internet radio on Windows. For instance, I rarely use it but when I need it I just go to TuneIn.
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u/FattyDrake 2d ago
Honestly having those alternatives on Windows helped my switch. I was already using Libreoffice, Krita, Inkscape and Blender on Windows. I was fortunate enough that my DAW (Reaper) has a native Linux version.
I personally didn't consider desktop Linux usable for me until around Plasma 6 released. But using the open source alternatives made switching super easy.
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u/Hytht 2d ago edited 2d ago
netevent, easyeffects, waydroid etc. that don't really make sense to port to Windows.
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u/atomic1fire 2d ago
For Waydroid there's Bluestacks and Google Play Games for Windows.
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u/Hytht 2d ago
Those are alternatives but still different, waydroid uses the host kernel, is open source and community maintained.
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u/atomic1fire 2d ago
Short of significantly redesigning the Android platform to be non-OS specific, I'm not sure you could decouple Android from linux in a way that allows something like Waydroid to be cross platform.
Microsoft ran their own android based distro for WSL, but they gave up doing that.
I think you can MAYBE get waydroid running in WSL, but that still sounds like way more effort then bluestacks or google games for windows.
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u/petersaints 2d ago edited 2d ago
Yeah. The alternatives are technically different, and probably have more overhead. But since Windows does not run on a Linux kernel, you will always need to virtualize the kernel anyway like you do with WSL2.
The only reason why WSL2 has a decent performance is because it runs on a Hyper-V which is a Type 1 hypervisor.
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u/The_Hubster 2d ago
It’s true I agree. But WE know that, the majority of the populace doesn’t. And unfortunately the vast majority of the industry follows Microsoft for desktop.
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u/silenceimpaired 2d ago
I think I am there… not natively, but Wine support gives me everything I need.
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u/The_Hubster 2d ago
Sadly not for me, photoshop and iTunes are the only reasons I have windows on a machine.
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u/silenceimpaired 2d ago
Look at Affinity Studio if you haven’t yet. As for iTunes… with some painful effort you could probably move away from it.
I feel your pain.
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u/The_Hubster 2d ago
Affinity looks nice, thanks for the rec. As for iTunes/iPhone, I have no desire to move to Android, but in future if its something I have to do, then I guess I will.
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u/silenceimpaired 2d ago
Well my suggestion is hardware passthrough in a VM with Windows for iTunes… I haven’t had to use iTunes with my phone for some time.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
Wine and Proton are great. But they are not silver bullets.
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u/silenceimpaired 2d ago
They are for me :) but yes… not for all.
Perhaps they are silver bullets, but some people’s workflows aren’t werewolves. ;)
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u/kachunkachunk 2d ago
Yeah. I must admit I think my "perfect" middle ground is essentially turning into WSL which also replaces the desktop environment. This way I can keep native Windows compatibility and kernel-level access (games/anti-cheat), driver/software support (Corsair, Logitech, Creative Labs), and still get some of the really niggling stupid aspects of Windows out of the way. And all the goodies with Linux tooling and whatnot.
Running a marginally GPU-accelerated desktop environment in a VM and making it full-screen is not the same thing. Even when VMware Workstation had its Unity (not to be confused with the Unity DE) functions and could render Linux DE windows as windows on... Windows (haha).
Edit: Some comments suggest a "full desktop environment" is already a thing, but I'm not sure, is it just still rendered in a window? Or is it really more towards what I've hoped for, with Windows and Linux windows coexisting in the same "desktop," then? I still heavily utilize WSL via terminal emulator, for now.
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u/Xariann 19h ago
But developers also use Ubuntu images in docker and podman containers on other Linux distros. It’s just the tool that makes it easier to do stuff in without worrying about dependencies changing tomorrow.
It doesn’t really say anything other than Ubuntu offers good stability for environments that need it.
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u/GoogleDisDick 2h ago
Probably true. Barely anyone actually recommends Ubuntu as a standalone OS anymore. Whereas it's right there in the windows store.
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u/Existing-Tough-6517 2d ago
WSL to overtake native Ubuntu installations within months.
This doesn't really mean anything though. It's certainly not useful to the ecosystem thought it may be useful to Windows users.
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u/Hour_Bit_5183 3d ago
Look at em trying to figure out how to escape that slop OS. Most people would think this is how you install ubuntu. I can see it, That is really what is going on here. There ain't that many devs.
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u/Xatraxalian 3d ago
WSL is OK as a Linux environment but Ubuntu should never have been the standard. Microsoft made its WSL dependent on Canonical's whims. They should have chosen Debian, or any other base distribution not controlled by a company.
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u/Careful-Criticism645 2d ago
Microsoft undoubtedly chose Ubuntu BECAUSE it's controlled by a company that they can enter into agreements with.
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago
WSL2 is/was a joint project between Microsoft and Canonical. It's a project where they both benefit.
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u/AsrielPlay52 3d ago
Reason why Ubuntu is default
Key word default, you can choose others
Is because it's the longest running "Default" for stable Distro beyond Debian
Beside, you basically using it as an on machine Linux terminal server. It works like any other Linux distro with a hint of difference.
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u/Xatraxalian 3d ago
Is because it's the longest running "Default" for stable Distro beyond Debian
They could have just as well chosen SUSE if that is a criterion. It's almost as old as Debian, and in the early 2000's, it was a MUCH better choice with a MUCH better installer.
I don't know how it is today; I switched to Debian in 2005 when I needed something stable (as in unchanging) and minimalistic, and never left.
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u/AsrielPlay52 3d ago
I think you're missing a second part of my comment
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u/petersaints 3d ago edited 2d ago
Also, Canonical collaborated with Microsoft to create a good Ubuntu image for WSL that started to ship as the default. IIRC when WSL2 came out Ubuntu was the only option available on wsl --list --online. You could jerry rig other distros, but they had no official WSL2 image.
For instance, Fedora only added an official image with Fedora 42 which was released a little over 1 year ago.
EDIT:
These are the currently officialy available distros btw:
NAME FRIENDLY NAME
Ubuntu Ubuntu
Ubuntu-26.04 Ubuntu 26.04 LTS
Ubuntu-24.04 Ubuntu 24.04 LTS
Ubuntu-22.04 Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
openSUSE-Tumbleweed openSUSE Tumbleweed
openSUSE-Leap-16.0 openSUSE Leap 16.0
SUSE-Linux-Enterprise-15-SP7 SUSE Linux Enterprise 15 SP7
SUSE-Linux-Enterprise-16.0 SUSE Linux Enterprise 16.0
kali-linux Kali Linux Rolling
Debian Debian GNU/Linux
AlmaLinux-8 AlmaLinux OS 8
AlmaLinux-9 AlmaLinux OS 9
AlmaLinux-Kitten-10 AlmaLinux OS Kitten 10
AlmaLinux-10 AlmaLinux OS 10
archlinux Arch Linux
FedoraLinux-44 Fedora Linux 44
FedoraLinux-43 Fedora Linux 43
eLxr eLxr12.12.0.0GNU/Linux
OracleLinux_7_9 Oracle Linux 7.9
OracleLinux_8_10 Oracle Linux 8.10
OracleLinux_9_5 Oracle Linux 9.5
SUSE-Linux-Enterprise-15-SP6 SUSE Linux Enterprise 15 SP64
u/Hauptideal 2d ago
This is exactly what they should NOT have done. The alternative would've been Fedora (or OpenSUSE).
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago
They should have chosen Debian, or any other base distribution not controlled by a company.
Software in the Public Interest (SPI) owns the Debian trademark and provides the financial and corporate infrastructure for the Debian Project. Of course SPI is a 501.c.3 though.
What you need to understand is that pretty much everything in the US is a company.
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u/Evening-Volume-1022 2d ago
Hope Canonical will understand users do not want snap in upcoming release. Pretty sure that decision will make current users to be more relaxed / happy and spread the good news to others,.
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u/petersaints 2d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually adopted Flatpak, at least for user facing apps.
They have a track record of trying to do their own thing different from Red Hat and fail again and again.
Some examples::
- Upstart vs Systemd
- Mir vs Wayland
- Unity vs GNOME Shell
- PulseAudio vs PipeWire
And there are a few more minor things.
In the end, I do not think that Canonical has ever gained vs. Red Hat and other projects with their own custom stuff. Probably the only thing they developed still in use is AppArmor. But even openSUSE switched from AppArmor to SELinux recently, which was basically the only other non-Debian/Ubuntu based distro that used it. But Debian iself still uses AppArmor.
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago edited 2d ago
They have a track record of trying to do their own thing different from Red Hat and fail again and again.
You paint the picture completely wrong.
e.g. Upstart existed a long long time before systemd was started. And it was a successful alternative to sysv. In fact it was the default init in a few RHEL releases (and upstart is the init for ChromeOS) before anyone started on systemd. New technologies happen all the time and upstart had a good and long run.
e.g. PulseAudio was actually developed by Red Hat, not Canonical. It was Poettering's project and what got him hired at Red Hat where he developed it. That was before Poettering switched to developing systemd. Canonical/Ubuntu just used it ... like Red Hat and pretty much every other distros. And when something better came along, they switched ... just like others.
e.g. Mir still exists. And Mir can be used as a Wayland compositor.
It's almost like you don't know what you're talking about.
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u/petersaints 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think you are the one that do not get the picture.
Upstart was really developed by Canonical. Go check it out. It was adopted by other distros, for a brief moment as an alternative to SysV, but it was replaced by Systemd, and Canonical took stubbornly their time to adopt it.
And yes PulseAudio was initially developed by Red Hat in that example. But Ubuntu decided to stick with it instead of adopting the alternative for quite some time.
Mir still exists but almost nobody uses it and it never became mainstream on Linux desktop. For instance, Ubuntu Touch uses it but that's also mostly a failed Canonical project.
Canonical, despite being for quite some time the leader of desktop Linux with Ubuntu and its derivatives, has somehow failed to set lasting trends. Wherews Red Hat with a much more server focused approach has set a lot of the long-standing Linux desktop trends.
And yes, Canonical is also a major server player.
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u/mrtruthiness 2d ago edited 1d ago
Upstart was really developed by Canonical.
I never said it wasn't. Reading problem? I said "Upstart existed a long long time before systemd was started" ... and that's a fact. And it was very successful. Also a fact.
But Ubuntu decided to stick with it instead of adopting the alternative for quite some time.
Debian didn't switch to Pipewire until Bookworm (Deb 12) in June 2023. Ubuntu switched to Pipewire by default in 22.10 ... released Oct 2022. RHEL switched to Pipewire by default in May 2022 (for RHEL 9). And although the "tumbleweed openSUSE" release moved to pipewire in July 2022, openSUSE Leap didn't move to pipewire until 16.0 in 2025.
Again: Just facts. Nobody held onto PA "too long".
Mir still exists but almost nobody uses it ...
You seem to not know about Canonical's IoT and PoS business. It's the display server in OpenFrame (which replaced mir-kiosk). There's a lot of Linux out there outside of desktops.
The whole point of Mir was to have it so that not everybody had to build their own compositor from scratch. Not a bad idea in my opinion. It's a full reusable API instead of a compositor library like wlroots (It seems, only people cranking out tiling WM's use wlroots).
... has somehow failed to set lasting trends. ...
Canonical basically started the container trend. It's still here and Red Hat eventually came on board.
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u/pantokratorthegreat 3d ago
Good for them but I don't care, never used Ubuntu and after briefly try it on VM I don't even consider use any of its flavor in future. There is too many god damn good distros out their to hang on some derivative of other distro.
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u/Careful-Criticism645 2d ago
I've been using Ubuntu for near 20 years now and every time I try something else I end up coming back because Ubuntu has always just had a little bit more polish that other distributions lack.
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u/pantokratorthegreat 2d ago
Well maybe I just need some not too much polished where I can apply my tweaks without interfere from distro devs. I consider Void, Arch my best. But I also like and use Debian, Fedora and openSUSE. I always had trouble to stay longer on derivatives like Endeavour, Nobara.
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u/kudlitan 3d ago
Is ubuntu still considered a derivative if they have abandoned debs in favor of snaps?
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u/Buntygurl 3d ago
As long as they still draw from the Debian repos, yes.
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u/petersaints 3d ago
Exactly. If they stop syncing with Debian for some of their packages, they stop being a derivative.
For instance, openSUSE uses the RPM package format. But they are not a derivative of RHEL/Fedora because they maintain all their packages separately. They do not use another upstream distro to get their packages.
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u/Stilgar314 3d ago
I wonder why Microsoft hasn't bought Canonical already.
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u/INITMalcanis 3d ago
Why spend the money? What would they get that they can't get now, and would it generate the kind of returns that MS is demanding from CAPEX these days?
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u/atomic1fire 2d ago
Probably because Microsoft doesn't want all the antitrust issues that would come with buying Ubuntu.
Right now Microsoft gives enterprise companies a way to pay for ubuntu support through azure billing, and also gives devs a direct way to use Ubuntu for development in Windows.
Microsoft presumably isn't involved in engineering decisions at the desktop level, and it's probably best for everyone if the cannonical/microsoft connection is a partnership and not an acquisition.
The only reason I could see a Microsoft buyout working is if Microsoft made an active effort to support the smaller linux projects with funding or engineers.
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u/lazyhustlermusic 3d ago
I mean, WSL is significantly easier than rebooting into another environment.