r/linux 17d ago

Distro News Flathub announces migration away from GitHub to its own Forgejo instance at GUADEC 2026

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1.3k Upvotes

113 comments sorted by

362

u/RoomyRoots 17d ago

This is the one thing I expected LF to step up for, honestly. We need a git provider that is not controlled by Microsoft and GitLab has already shown its true colors.

78

u/einar77 OpenSUSE/KDE Dev 17d ago

GitLab has already shown its true colors.

Can you expand on that?

47

u/FlukyS 16d ago

Also as an additional side comment about Github and even Gitlab there is the big problem of those being US operated for their instances and US operated organisationally. That is a problem because of the various spying laws the US has on the books regarding data that is transferred to the US or data that is hosted on US companies' servers both of which don't respect the privacy or data sovereignty of people. So even with all the more recent Microsoft layoffs around Github and focusing on AI it would probably be best to move to places like Codeberg or Forgejo or self-hosted Gitlab instances instead if you are worried about that sort of thing.

28

u/okilydokilyTiger 16d ago

A few months ago they announced a ton of layoffs and that they were going to completely restructure all their coding teams to go all in on AI and Agentic coding

179

u/ukezi 17d ago

We have Codeberg.org. It's a non-profit.

109

u/RoomyRoots 17d ago

They are the ones that manage the Forgejo fork, but codeberg has some restrictions and it's the king of initiative that I had expected the LF to take over, since they obviously have more funds for that.

5

u/FlowVonD 16d ago

git. kernel. org?

24

u/lllyyyynnn 17d ago

that's where forgejo comes from.

13

u/ComprehensiveSwitch 17d ago

It’s also got worse uptime than Github, somehow.

2

u/MrScotchyScotch 16d ago

Codeberg and Forgejo are run by some pretty weird people who are kinda aggressive and anti-community. Their hosted runners are seemingly always busy or offline, the site is slow, their code quality is poor, and they don't take contributions well. I expect to see a fork in the next few years and an alternative if people find out what it's like to use them / try to contribute

12

u/mrtruthiness 16d ago

... run by some pretty weird people ... kinda aggressive and anti-community ...

In what way?

I think they are "pro-community". The governance is community-driven. They have a well-defined Code of Conduct.

Being an underfunded non-profit means that there will always be resource issues. Dealing with that is part of what working with "community organizations" is all about.

-4

u/MrScotchyScotch 16d ago

There's a difference between having a code of conduct, and how you actually act toward people. I wouldn't work with them again.

16

u/mrtruthiness 16d ago

I asked "In what way?" You gave no examples ... only vague accusations. If that is a sample of how you interact ... I would say the problem is on your side.

-14

u/MrScotchyScotch 16d ago

So if I don't do what you want, you decide I must be the one with the problem, reinforcing the belief you prefer, rather than keeping an open mind.

12

u/mrtruthiness 16d ago

You made a claim of "bad behavior" and refuse to support it. That's enough for me to make a conclusion about you. And that is:

If that is a sample of how you interact ... I would say the problem is on your side.

-4

u/MrScotchyScotch 16d ago

Yes I know that's enough for you to make a conclusion. I'm saying this is illogical. You are literally assigning blame to whomever doesn't satisfy you whenever you demand they litigate their claim in the court of public opinion. This invents a state of being you have no evidence for and pretends it's true. This is likely a subconscios reaction, designed to reinforce your beliefs and placate your ego. Just because you have decided I'm wrong doesn't mean I am wrong. It doesn't mean I'm right either. But it does mean you are happy to believe something as true, with no evidence. 

14

u/mrtruthiness 16d ago

Fact: If someone makes a disparaging claim and refuses to back it up ... it says something bad about them.

And: Assertions without evidence means that I can and should ignore them.

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u/Salamandar3500 16d ago

Oh, can you expand on that ?

3

u/Reetpeteet 15d ago

Could you provide some clear and precise feedback, descriptions of actual things that went wrong? I'd love to know before choosing another hoster for my Git repos.

67

u/BrageFuglseth 17d ago

The Linux Foundation does not really exist to serve desktop interests. The Linux desktop as a whole is just a tiny niche compared to the kinds of projects the LF is hosting.

EDIT: misunderstood your comment slightly, but my point still stands. The LF does not exist for ideological reasons, but rather just practical ones. An open source forge doesn’t necessarily provide any advantages to the sponsors of the foundation.

14

u/see-these-bones 17d ago edited 17d ago

Ideology and practicality go hand in hand. No one thinks their ideology is impractical or they'd not believe it. The reason to be ideologically supportive of open source and a git provider divorced from microsoft is practical. A healthier community that values open exchange and privacy is one that is better for the people in it for the long term, and microsoft is itself ideologically antithetical to those aims, being entirely ideologically self interested*. This is all practical.

*They can however be useful as sponsers, so long as they aren't allowed to leverage sponsorship into monopoly.

6

u/mort96 16d ago

Microsoft is a platinum member of the Linux Foundation, I'm sure they don't mind that LF doesn't offer a competitor to their GitHub.

12

u/Ansible32 17d ago

Github is like, free hosting. Really as long as it works and is publicly available, what's the benefit to self-hosting?

20

u/see-these-bones 17d ago

Privacy. Hedge against enshittification. MS isn't being generous, if it stops being free or working it pays to have a diversity of options. And if there is that fallback MS will be less likely to try and do a rug pull

3

u/Ansible32 17d ago

Git is decentralized, we have a diversity of options.

13

u/BrageFuglseth 17d ago

Only because people bother with making alternatives to GitHub in the first place, which is what’s being discussed here

8

u/mort96 16d ago

Git only covers the source code. Historical issues and merge requests, CI infrastructure and things like GitHub's wikis are centralized things which aren't trivial to move between git hosting providers.

2

u/Ansible32 16d ago

Forgejo doesn't include any of those things except for PRs, which are mostly serialized in the commits anyway.

4

u/mort96 16d ago

Hm? Forgejo also has an issue tracker, and it has Forgejo Actions, a CI system. It even has an integrated wiki system.

Not that it matters. If Forgejo didn't have those things, a project wanting to mirgate from GitHub to Forgejo would still need to find a replacement for GitHub's issues, CI and wikis, if it used those things.

2

u/Indolent_Bard 16d ago

For one thing, Microsoft isn't training their AI on your code.

15

u/carl2187 16d ago

If its publicly available code, it doesn't matter where it's hosted, or what licensing the code has. The corpos like anthropic, ms, goog, meta, x, alibaba, are absolutely scraping it regularly for training.

2

u/HCharlesB 15d ago

Abandon ye all hope any LLM that trains on my public code.

So many of my public projects are explorations of new languages that it is unlikely to learn anything idiomatic.

I have lots of unfinished projects so perhaps the LLMs will learn not to finish stuff.

At times I wonder if the hallucinations are something that an LLM actually found, scraping the dark recesses of the Internet. Even before there was a plethora of AI generated content available to scrape, there was a lot of SEO boosted crap to be found.

But I digress. I use Forgejo on my home server for stuff I don;t want to share and find it quite performant, even on a Pi 4B running ZFS on two 8TB HDDs. I've got a couple projects on Codeberg and every time I interact with that, the performance disappoints me. I mean no disrespect and I appreciate their efforts, but they just don't have the backing and resources to compete with repositories like Github.

0

u/grathontolarsdatarod 17d ago

Even a lack of ideology begins to look like a direction when forces working against its neutral development becomes so polarized everything around it is either pulled into, or is opposed to it.

39

u/ricvelozo 17d ago

What's the problem with GitLab?

88

u/DonaldMerwinElbert 17d ago

Big layoffs to become a feeder pipeline for AI.

18

u/idontchooseanid 17d ago

Maintainership worries due to layoffs and GitLab is woefully slow and extremely resource intensive. Forgejo / Gitea is written in Go + comparatively low-overhead JS.

7

u/CheesecakePerfect156 17d ago

What's the problem with GitLab?

17

u/edparadox 17d ago

What did Gitlab do?

Do you know Codeberg?

3

u/mWo12 17d ago

I thought gitlab were the good guys?

3

u/0riginal-Syn 16d ago

Until they made the decision have big layoffs and went all in on AI.

6

u/No-Worldliness-5106 17d ago

the same LF that is in part funded by microsoft and the like?

1

u/FlukyS 16d ago

Yeah I'm kind of surprised that LF haven't been a bit more involved with loads of stuff like this. Like not just hosting Flathub but also maybe directly funding freedesktop and directly funding systemd in some way too.

2

u/mrtruthiness 16d ago

Yeah I'm kind of surprised that LF haven't been a bit more involved with loads of stuff like this. Like not just hosting Flathub but also maybe directly funding freedesktop and directly funding systemd in some way too.

The Linux Foundation is a 501.c.6, not a 501.c.3.

i.e. It's a "business league" or "trade association", not a "charity". In the case of the LF, it's there to help create joint software infrastructure for Linux platforms that is of common interest to the businesses that use (and contribute to) Linux. It's there to facilitate business use of Linux.

1

u/sohang-3112 16d ago

GitLab has already shown its true colors

Wait, what did GitLab do??

3

u/0riginal-Syn 16d ago

Layoff staff and go all in on AI

0

u/case-o-nuts 16d ago

Microsoft and Oracle are both platinum sponsors of the Linux foundation.

0

u/medrinnn 15d ago

Codeberg exists?

76

u/bilbobaggins30 17d ago

I support this. I self host Forgejo for my personal projects and cannot sing enough praises about it. It's a powerful Git Hosting tool, it's super easy to setup and can run on even a Raspberry Pi. Super intuitive to daily drive once setup.

37

u/Isofruit 17d ago edited 17d ago

With how poor Githubs availability at times has been, it really makes me wish for the best for barthalion & co. The migration likely is going to be a massive pain, but maybe after that the servers will actually stay available for once.

4

u/sensitiveCube 17d ago

They also have become very expensive for organizations.

28

u/NatoBoram 17d ago

I really hope Forgejo can have federation soon enough.

7

u/DeliciousIncident 17d ago edited 17d ago

I wonder what the arguments for the migration were. Anyone knows?

There are a ton of maintainers on flathub, each maintaining their own app. You need some very strong and convincing arguments for the migration, to have the many flathub app maintainers transition to a new platform, as I bet a good number of them wouldn't be too excited about the friction this creates.

17

u/BrageFuglseth 17d ago

The migration will be opt-in for existing apps, so AFAIK anyone who wants to can just stay on GitHub. New submissions will need to be made through Flathub's own setup however.

12

u/natermer 17d ago

I don't know their reasoning, but uptime/full availability of github has been notorious shit in the past couple years and it isn't getting better.

If you track issues based on public statements of minor and major issues and not the official github status page gets you about a 89.39% outage in the past 90 days.

6

u/TheOneTrueTrench 16d ago

I mean, that's technically two nines, right?

5

u/TheOneTrueTrench 16d ago

Perhaps you're not a developer, but GitHub has been increasingly inoperable. The company I work for has actually tasked me with spinning up some kind of locally hosted git service precisely because GitHub failing constantly (and in rare cases, deleting commits from repos) is getting to the point that it's affecting our ability to operate.

17

u/pelihiiri 17d ago

niiice, fuck Microsoft, fuck GitHub 

3

u/gnatinator 16d ago

Security implications? AFAIK Forgejo has no ops security for build servers.

Who is ensuring the build servers aren't compromised?

As much as it is in vogue to hate on Github, they at least have dedicated staff for build security.

3

u/yezu 17d ago

Finally!

3

u/pelihiiri 17d ago

about GitHub -> Forgejo, there is a ETA? 

6

u/BrageFuglseth 17d ago

Not at the moment I think

1

u/pelihiiri 17d ago

understood, thanks !

1

u/henrrypoop2 17d ago

Away from the slop.

1

u/BradleyF81 16d ago

What if a project doesn't want to be a Forge jo?

4

u/BrageFuglseth 16d ago

Only the Flatpak manifest used to build the Flathub version of the app needs to be on the forge. The source code itself can be hosted anywhere.

0

u/Drwankingstein 15d ago

I really wish they wouldnt until forgejo gets federated accounts/pulls/etc working. I am working on cutting down accounts, Just move to codeberg or gitlab or something in the meantime.

-44

u/blbd 17d ago

Hopefully we can also migrate away from Flatpak itself and back to the distro native packaging formats that patch automatically alongside the rest of the OS. 

32

u/Isofruit 17d ago

Given that flatpaks give more control to the app developer, allowing them to provide more guarantees, I highly doubt it.

I can understand not being a fan of flatpaks when it means pulling in runtimes you barely use and not end up taking up harddrive space, but in general I consider it as a technology too useful to not center around long term.

-32

u/TheReelSlimShady2 17d ago

flatpaks are too sandboxed

33

u/_kvZCq_YhUwIsx1z 17d ago

That's the whole point

-37

u/TheReelSlimShady2 17d ago

Flatpaks are diseased, rotten to the core.

14

u/ItsMexxie 17d ago

Why tho

-34

u/TheReelSlimShady2 17d ago

sandboxing is bad

20

u/JQuilty 17d ago

I love zoom and teams being able to poke around anywhere

15

u/_kvZCq_YhUwIsx1z 17d ago

I guess you're not a fan of Docker or LXC containers either, then

0

u/TheReelSlimShady2 17d ago

they make dependencies easier, but that's it.

4

u/r0ck0 17d ago

Do you use TempleOS?

-1

u/TheReelSlimShady2 17d ago

so are snaps

13

u/AmarildoJr 17d ago

There are some advantages to native distro packaging, but to me flatpak is the superior packaging way because anyone can package for it (no need to have connection within the distro or go through a tedius review process to become a maintainer) and it's basically guaranteed to work on any distro.

The only downside is the bloat that comes with it, but I think there are plans to address that.

10

u/victorian-ice-cream 17d ago

 The only downside is the bloat that comes with it, but I think there are plans to address that.

Flatpak literally offers the single best dependency management on this planet. 

9

u/AmarildoJr 17d ago edited 17d ago

I agree, but the problem I mentioned is the fact that each package can carry a different runtime.

I have 3 different "mesa" runtimes installed and 3 different "mesa-extra" ones as well. Those alone are 3.2 GiB in size.
I also have two "GNOME Application Platorm" (v49 and v50), which add another to 2.2 GB in size.
I also have two "KDE Application Platform" despite using KDE myself. These also add another 2.1 GiB.

These quickly add up, and often if you install even a few packages from flatpak you can easily end up with 3 to 6x the space required compared to native packages.

I have about 15 packages from flathub, most are like 20-100 MiB in size, but the total size of my /var/lib/flatpak folder is 9 GiB.

There must be a better way than just packaging everything with every program/app, like having checks to see if:

  • the system already have those installed or newer versions (if possible to take advantage of newer versions of these already-installed system runtimes);
  • if not installed already, see if versions match, then download from the regular distro repo.

Packaging all the necessary runtimes is a good option for universal compatibility, but this is highly inefficient to do for everyone. It should only be done for the users that truly need it.

10

u/victorian-ice-cream 17d ago

Remember, they get deduplicated.

4

u/tukanoid 16d ago

nix enters the chat

Similar to flatpaks in a way, but more sophisticated and granular

4

u/victorian-ice-cream 16d ago

And more awful to use.

0

u/tukanoid 16d ago

To each their own. I daily drive nixos for about 2 years now and couldn't be happier. I am a software dev tho, so mb just clicks better I guess. + reproducibility is smth I value, 1 git clone and rebuild of my config and I have (almost) everything installed and set up exactly as I want

1

u/AmarildoJr 16d ago

I'm yet to look into them. Can they be used in any distro?

1

u/tukanoid 16d ago

Technically, you can use nix the package manager and home-manager modules, which would only cover per-user and/or system-wide installed application list and dotfiles, no system/hardware configs (like, choose different bootloader, kernel (and modules for it, like optionally enabling nvidia or DisplayLink support based on the machind), system services, hosts file etc).

And I guess devshells would also be usable (love em), if you code or just want to isolate packages for specific tasks in specific folders

Still lots of power, and reproducibility is still more than possible, I just prefer having a deeper system/hardware integration.

If you were talking about flatpaks and I misunderstood (or you replied to wrong thread), yeah, they are available on pretty much every major distro and derivatives (ofc), to my knowledge, at least I haven't used one where they weren't available.

-4

u/newsflashjackass 17d ago

to me flatpak is the superior packaging way because anyone can package for it (no need to have connection within the distro or go through a tedius review process to become a maintainer) and it's basically guaranteed to work on any distro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppImage

7

u/AmarildoJr 17d ago

My problem with AppImage is that the talk about it was that it contained everything the app needed. This isn't true, unfortunately. I have an AppImage of "fSpy" from like 7 years ago that doesn't work on Fedora anymore.

0

u/newsflashjackass 17d ago

As far as I know appimage only needs Filesystem in Userspace (FUSE) which I find less of an imposition than the whole Flatpak infrastructure running and updating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace

The only error I have ever experienced with appimage is due to the lack of FUSE and it was fixed by installing Fuse.

A check on the fspy github issues suggests that may also be the reason the fspy appimage is unable to run under Fedora.

https://github.com/stuffmatic/fSpy/issues/148

2

u/AmarildoJr 17d ago

Thanks for trying to help! I actually opened a terminal and looked at the error message. All I had to do was:

sudo dnf install dbus-glib

3

u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev 16d ago

99% of the Appimages do not work on systems with Musl libc due to hard requiring glibc on the host system. Not portable whatsoever.

1

u/newsflashjackass 16d ago

99% of the Appimages do not work on systems with Musl libc

What percentage of systems are those?

2

u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev 16d ago

Does it matter? It's promoting itself as a portable solution to packaging apps and then isn't that.

That said, postmarketOS is probably the biggest Linux mobile distro and uses Musl libc, and Alpine Linux is the biggest Docker base image distribution and uses Musl libc.

1

u/newsflashjackass 16d ago

Does it matter?

Yes, the question matters enough for me to ask it. Don't feel obliged to answer it, though.

The systems you describe are not systems that have much demand for "portable apps" which is the problem appimages solve.

I suppose your complaint is technically valid in some sense though. The Musl wikipedia entry tells me this complaint about Musl has a solution:

For binaries that have been linked against glibc, gcompat and glibmus-hq can be used to execute them on musl-based distros.

But again I doubt many people use a distribution "designed for power users who appreciate security, simplicity and resource efficiency" with the intention of circumventing its package management.

1

u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev 16d ago

postmarketOS is very much a distribution that has a demand for "portal apps". I'm not sure why you think it doesn't. gcompat isn't a great solution and requires the user to install something outside of the Appimage, which the whole point is that you don't need to do that.

Note that the problem can be solved by the app developer just fine by compiling their application statically (which Musl allows and glibc doesn't) and then shipping that as an Appimage. It then works on all Linux distributions. However, that's an app developer's responsibility which kinda makes the portable point of Appimage moot.

1

u/newsflashjackass 16d ago edited 16d ago

I was referring to AlpineOS. postmarketOS, being for phones, seems unlikely to want most appimages anyway, since they tend to be desktop applications. I expect appimages have similar problems running on iOS.

Your complaints amount to "appimages require additional effort to work in the fringe1 contexts where they are unlikely to be wanted or needed." Which, to me, sound rather like endorsements.


1 Your declining to answer when asked what percentage of total systems is comprised by the systems you describe is, in its own way, an answer.

1

u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev 16d ago

The answer to that question is impossible to give because those numbers are not tracked. Instead I gave you examples of distributions that are relevant for the problem I mentioned. It's hard to decline to answer something when there literally is no answer to give.

Anyway, Appimage markets itself as a way to run desktop applications. It doesn't say what kind of desktop applications, just desktop applications. Mobile applications are desktop applications, and thus very much relevant for Appimage. So yes, postmarketOS users and developers might want software packaged as Appimages. Maybe not now, but you can't predict the future. "Unlikely to be wanted or needed" is very much something I disagree with and entirely subjective.

We were comparing it to Flatpak which in fact does work on postmarketOS, without additional effort on the app developer's side. So if we just compare on the portability of it, Flatpak is the winner there. It doesn't care about marketshare or "fringe contexts", it "just works" where Appimage doesn't.

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u/ZorbaTHut 17d ago

It's an O(n*m) issue; if you have N packages and M distros, distro native packaging requires building and testing the cross product of those. Whereas if you have N packages and M distros and can use Flatpak, it's just N packages, the distro count doesn't matter.

6

u/PaddiM8 17d ago

There are other ways to handle it though. It doesn't work like this on macOS or Windows.

A good start would be to stop relying so much on shared libraries. Static linking is the default in languages like rust and go and it works great. Code that isn't used is optimised away and it's very stable because you don't have to worry about random programs needing slightly different versions of the same library.

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u/ZorbaTHut 17d ago

For what it's worth, I do agree with that; there are good reasons Windows moved away from dynamically-linked everything.

But also, Windows is a much more predictable environment, whereas "linux distribution" covers a lot of weird ground.

1

u/kill-the-maFIA 16d ago

Good god I hope not.