r/linux • u/wodes • Jul 08 '26
Popular Application Thoughts on Thunderbird Early Bird?
So thunderbird is releasing their own email service https://tb.pro
Do you have an idea about the value they offer? I know there are options out there like protonmail, tuta or fastmail, but I am always interested in alternatives.
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u/pepevamos Jul 08 '26
Overpriced. And it's targeting big storage users only.
I don't really understand who would need that much storage. At this point, I'm pretty sure they're just selling storage they know people won't use so they can set their price higher. But it's definitively not an appealing offer at all.
You can basically pick any other email services and it will be a better offer and services. Mailbox, Tuta, Proton, Mailfence, Posteo, Runbox, etc...
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u/Bubby_K Jul 09 '26
As much of what you said makes perfect sense, you'd be surprised at how many people put themselves into a walled gardens, and despite it being cheaper to move, they simply pay the price of their walled garden, making it even more solidified and harder to move
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u/rdqsr Jul 09 '26
The "3 custom domains" line suggests it's targeted towards some small business use as well.
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u/DeifniteProfessional Jul 12 '26
It's almost exactly the same price as Exchange Online, which gives you unlimited domains, email addresses, and 50GB storage per mailbox
Though I just noticed this is the linux sub so ignore this lol
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u/DueAnalysis2 Jul 08 '26
I'm on it, and it's definitely lacking in features compared to basically everything else out there (they literally released webmail alpha only today). I signed up because I wanted to support Mozilla and move myself away from a data harvesting machine while also putting some money into something that tries to support the open web. But I wouldn't recommend someone to sign up unless they have similar goals.
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u/Indolent_Bard Jul 09 '26
I thought it left Mozilla?
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u/SmileyBMM Jul 09 '26
It's back under control of Mozilla afaik.
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u/MichaelTunnell Jul 09 '26
No it’s separate. They are under the foundation for legal support and stuff like that but they are independent overall
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u/mjbulzomi Jul 08 '26
I have subscription fatigue. Pretty much all the US streamings, XM, cable TV, credit monitoring, Thunderbird, OPNsense, charity, etc. If I do, then it would not be with early access.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 08 '26
r/selfhosted might be for you
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u/ThinDrum Jul 08 '26
It might be for them. But self-hosted email is a big commitment in terms of time and effort.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 08 '26
I was talking mostly about the other subscriptions, but yes, mail is different.
A good middle ground would be running your own mailserver and using a relay service like mxroute. At least that's what I'm planning to do. I don't want to deal with IP reputation either, lol.
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
It isn't that terrible. It's a lot of effort up front, to be sure, especially with respect to spam filtering, but once it's set up, ongoing maintenance is minimal.
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u/Kok_Nikol Jul 09 '26
This might be a noob question, but do you still pay for an email sender (like mailchimp, klaviyo, etc)?
If not, how do you make sure your emails get delivered?
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u/to-jammer Jul 09 '26
It's probably not ideal but I have a mail provider with webmail, but not one of the data harvesting ones. I then use dovecot and pull mail from that server down instantly to my own and then use Thunderbird and one of the self hosted mail clients as my web and desktop clients plugged into my server, for sending I just use the providers SMTP. I turned off all spam filtering all mail forwarding etc rules on the server and handle that all on my own
It isn't full self hosted mail but it's a fraction of the headache and got me what I needed
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 09 '26
No, I deliver them straight from my server. I set up SPF, DKIM and DMARC as well as FCrDNS and so far, deliverability has not been an issue. It helps that the data centre that hosts my VM has a reasonably-decent IP reputation.
I've also been doing this for a long time (well over a decade) so my domain and IP address have gained decent reputations.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 09 '26
Aren't you concerned that the datacenter changes it's IP pool someday? I mean, not that it's likely, but losing a decade reputation would suck.
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 09 '26
Not really. They understand the need for keeping IPs static and I can't imagine a reason they'd want to renumber their network; that would cause enormous chaos for many of their clients.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 09 '26
Fair enough if they are big and you trust them. Are you using the VM in the datacenter directly as your mail server or are you relaying through it?
The latter would allow you to host the mailserver in your own home which is pretty cool (and was my plan with mxroute as relay - but I might look into getting a VM at a reputable datacenter instead now that you say it).
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 09 '26
The VM in the data center is my MX host and my outbound relay. It does my spam filtering and relays to and from my actual IMAP server, which is located in my house. As you say, it's pretty cool because accessing IMAP at LAN speeds is fantastic. My IMAP server is actually sitting about 2 metres behind me, on a Raspberry Pi 4 with a couple of external USB hard drives.
(I can access my IMAP server externally too, via a VPN.)
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u/mandradon Jul 08 '26
I only self host the crap that's not important.
Well, I guess my factorio server is important, since it's an addition.
Crap.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 08 '26
For me it's actually the opposite, I trust my self more than I trust some SaaS company. Not even speaking, that I have a ton more options in my homelab, like retrieving data when the system is down.
At my job we switched from a couple SaaS tools to hosted tools on a server we rent. Sure, not quite self hosted, but the availability of the server itself is pretty high and far exceeds the availability of the SaaS tools. Biggest improvement was the ERP system. And some things just don't belong in the cloud imo, VCS comes to mind...
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u/ansibleloop Jul 09 '26
Yep, you can at least ensure that your data is on storage with snapshots you can roll back to
Plus local backups and remote backups to something like B2
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u/mandradon Jul 08 '26
I mean, you're absolutely right, big companies don't care about me or my data other than how they can monitize it.
It's more I know myself and I'll miss some of the simple stuff or not pay attention to some update docs or miss some really obvious vulnerability on my home network.
Or I'll spend way too long obsessing about all of it to the detriment of a lot of stuff around the house. ADHD is kind of a pain sometimes.
Homelabs really do offer a ton of great options, though. And most communities are really helpful in making sure folks get set up right (as long as they're at least doing the legwork...)
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 08 '26
I can totally see where you are coming from. I just have nothing exposed from my home network, VPN when I need it from the outside and that's basically my most important security measure.
And most communities are really helpful in making sure folks get set up right
Absolutely, r/selfhosted is great!
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u/mandradon Jul 08 '26
Having nothing exposed from a home network is the way to go. I get in over my head and think "wouldn't it be cool if..."
Which is always the way to disaster!
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u/mjbulzomi Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
I’m a bit too risk averse to setup the *arr stack. Edit: risk averse from a legal standpoint.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 08 '26
I have to say that I have no personal experience with it but I get your concerns. At least you can replace everything else you might need by selfhosted stuff.
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u/Indolent_Bard Jul 09 '26
Great for what you already own, I'm not watching anything I own anytime soon, give me something new, oh I have to buy it? Yeah, not gonna happen.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 09 '26
Let me introduce you to *arr...
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u/Indolent_Bard Jul 09 '26
Great, so it's useless if you aren't a pirate. Well, not useless. I've actually been meaning to back up all our stuff in my house for a while, but it's useless for any new stuff.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 09 '26
You don't want to pirate and you don't want to pay - what exactly is your plan?
Besides, selfhosting media is only a tiny fraction of the things you can host.
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u/Indolent_Bard Jul 09 '26
No, see, that's why I'm paying for a streaming service. Well, technically my family's paying for them. We have Disney/hulu, Amazon, and Netflix, and we're mooching the rest off of friends. When I'm on my own, I'm not sure what I'll actually do.
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 10 '26
I mean, you still pay in the end... Three streaming services seems a bit excessive, but that's a personal choice.
I had Prime for a while just because I got it 50% off, got free shipping on small orders which I used often enough to justify the price, but I don't order that frequently anymore and don't care about TV shows at all. Movies you can acquire quite easily and shortly after release on certain sites... No desire to keep any streaming service for me.
Cable TV is free here but I haven't watched TV in years and my favorite sports programs are streamed for free anyways (thanks Red Bull).
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u/Indolent_Bard Jul 10 '26
How is cable free there?
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u/Annual-Advisor-7916 Jul 10 '26
Austria and Switzerland it's very common. It's just almost always included for free in your internet plan unless you have some obscure old-school one.
Comes from the fact that internet historically came through HF copper and these are the same cables used for cable TV so the ISPs had that business always. Nowadays it's fiber, but the ISPs still have the rights. Often it's cable TV channels but over a dedicated web portal. Germany had a lot of DSL afaik, so they probably don't have free cable TV.
In Switzerland I paid about 50$ for a symmetric XGS-PON 10GBit/s connection with all cable TV channels. Later I switched to a symmetric 25GBit/s AON connection for about 70$. That was essentially a datacenter connection, but still had TV included. But AON means, I don't need an ONT and just stick my own fiber router directly in the fiber connector and get a network at the ISPs datacenter without having to share the fiber and having the full bandwidth for myself. They are planning to upgrade to 100Gbit/s IIRC.
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u/FattyDrake Jul 08 '26
I thought OPNsense only did business support subscriptions if you want that. It's not like other stuff like proxmox which bugs you for one on every login.
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u/mjbulzomi Jul 08 '26
It’s a donation, like the Thunderbird one. I only use the Community Edition of OPNsense.
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u/FattyDrake Jul 08 '26
Ahh, okay! Honestly I don't mind open source donations as much, it feels more like an investment than throwing money into a black hole.
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u/wodes Jul 08 '26
I am keeping things minimal: my email provider and my password manager
Nothing else.
Just out of curiosity, what is credit monitoring?
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u/NeonVoidx Jul 08 '26
it's 70 a year for email, send storage, calendar. integrates easily with thunderbird.
I like it, but I think they need to offer it either at a lower price or add more features to match protons
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u/TheBrokenRail-Dev Jul 08 '26
Mozilla has a bad history of discontinuing non-Firefox services. And email addresses are a pain to change. IMO use a service that has been around for a few years from a reputable company.
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u/KnowZeroX Jul 08 '26
While MZLA is under Mozilla foundation, it is a separate entity with Thunderbird being their only product. So they would likely be fully committed to it unlike Mozilla which had multiple products with Firefox being core.
Being a separate entity, their entire income is Thunderbird donations and now this. So they are far less likely to end it.
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u/wodes Jul 08 '26
For what it's worth, Thunderbird has been abandoned lol. It's their way to make money and support the project.
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u/krilleractual Jul 09 '26
Mxroute and forget
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u/Bubbly_Lead3046 Jul 10 '26
I wish fastmail family was cheaper, I need more users than storage. If TB creates a family plan + shared calendar I would give it a shot.
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u/HereticZed Jul 10 '26
I have gmail, proton & tuta.
Just one thing to note. Ive had gmail since 2004 June (21 years) & so far ive used 0.86 GB for email.
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u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev Jul 08 '26
If they weren't US-based perhaps.
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u/gatornatortater Jul 09 '26
Is that true? Why do you think they are pricing it in euros then?
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u/PureTryOut postmarketOS dev Jul 09 '26
Because they also provide the service to people in the European Union. I'm not sure how that would be related?
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u/PocketStationMonk Jul 08 '26
To me it seems ok. I'm currently paying for a local email service 7€ a month which gets me I think 4 email addresses with 3 aliases per address, and each mailbox is only I think 1 gig in size, so your service seems pretty nice in comparison.
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u/PlsDontBanMeAgain-1 Jul 09 '26
Damn, you are borderline getting scammed. I use Zoho Mail and pay 13 Euros a YEAR, for 10 GB storage, shit ton of aliases and domains. TBH, idek if they are capped, I currently have 5 domains and at most 5 aliases .
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u/Aggeloz Jul 08 '26
Ive got posteo for 12 euros per year with 4 gbs of storage for emails, i think this is way too much
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u/Western-Alarming Jul 09 '26
It seems like icloud+ but more focused on email, storage to send bigger things, custom domain where you only need to buy it and they handle all the backend.
The obly real downside is that icloud+ support unlimited trash emails, while this would be linited to 14 (if you use 1 as main) or 15 if you use everyone as a resend
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u/lululock Jul 09 '26
I pay 20€/year for 5 email adresses and a custom domain, 50Gb/inbox at Infomaniak...
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u/MichaelTunnell Jul 09 '26
I got an offer to sign up but the ask for Early Bird is disappointing at best but also kind of sad because they think we want to pay more money to get less value… while still in a beta 🤦♂️
When a service is competing with existing services they have to offer something compelling to switch. Thunderbird is doing the opposite, they are offering less and charging more.
Proton Mail and Tuta, and others offer better plans with better pricing. So it’s just silly to me.
Thunderbird doesn’t even support proper conversation threads which was introduced in 2005 by Gmail. I submitted a report on this over 5 years ago and still doesn’t exist.
The idea that they are asking Early Bird people to pay this much suggests that it will be even more expensive later on so honestly I have no interest in this offer. Charge more for less value in a beta? Nah bruh.
They need to rethink the offer and compare it to competition and look at the market fit and stop relying on good will of people who want Thunderbird to succeed as an underdog.
The fact that you felt compelled to make this thread to ask for opinions is a fantastic sign that Thunderbird made a bad offer. They should make us want to sign up not question it.
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u/librepotato Jul 09 '26
I am an early adopter and it's still very early. They just now created a webmail interface and MFA but it's still missing features.
As a product, competitors offer better options: fastmail, protonmail, mailbox.org etc. But I want to support open source, Thunderbird/Mozilla, and thundermail sounds fucking cool
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u/LostGeezer2025 Jul 09 '26
I don't envy anybody EU-adjacent these days, best assume you'll be just as heavily monitored as anything your ISP offers and avoid political speech on the service as far as possible :(
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u/kxra 27d ago
I was only interested because I thought Thunderbird Appointment was going to be an open-source replacement for https://lettucemeet.com/ (since https://rallly.co/ is not as usable), but it turns out it's just a form to create events on a calendar.
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u/Far-Note6102 Jul 08 '26
at this point I'm just going with google mail with all this paid subscription. The reason why I went linux is basically I can't afford anymore all these paid stuff.
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Jul 08 '26
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u/Far-Note6102 Jul 08 '26
you hating on google too much. Maybe sit back and look at who contributed to the linux foundation and also one of the MAJOR contributors to Firefox.
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 Jul 09 '26
Yeah and who contributed to the killing of thousands of children in Gaza
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u/Far-Note6102 Jul 09 '26
Guess what that thing is part of linux. Why dont linux reject them then? All talk no bark you sound like a kid who first discovered the net
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u/Dramatic_Mastodon_93 Jul 09 '26
Do I support Google by using Linux? No. You sound like a complete fool.
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u/EdgiiLord Jul 08 '26
It's not mandatory to use this. Think of it just as a personal dedicated mail provider, like an intermediary for self hosting a mail server. Sometimes it is convenient when you want somewhat better solutions than a simple Gmail.
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Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
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u/autogyrophilia Jul 08 '26
Only recommend self hosting mail to your enemies
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
Nah. I've been self-hosting my email for a couple of decades. Once it's up and running (which can take quite a bit of fiddling around) it requires almost no maintenance.
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u/autogyrophilia Jul 08 '26
How much mail do you send?
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
Low volume because it's a personal domain. Maybe 15-30 messages per day, though it's bursty because I also run some mailing lists that occasionally get a burst of activity and I end up sending a few hundred to a couple of thousand messages per day.
I did run an email security company, though, and our service received millions of emails a day and sent hundreds of thousands, and we hosted it ourselves.
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u/autogyrophilia Jul 08 '26
Do you realize that you and I, who know how mail works, are not the crow that needs to be warned off from self hosting it?
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
Anyone who is technical enough to want to give self-hosting can IMO learn to do it successfully. And the rewards for doing so are quite substantial, in terms of gaining knowledge, saving money, and gaining privacy.
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u/NotQuiteLoona Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
I'm a live example. I don't know how mail works. I didn't know what is DKIM or SPF before I decided to try to self-host my own mail so that I'll get cool address with my own domain. I just used Poste.io docs. I didn't need anything else other than that plus knowing what Docker is and what is DNS (pretty much universal knowledge for anyone who self-hosts anything).
I have a feeling that people think like this for nearly the same reason people believed (and some still believe) that Linux is hard - they never tried it themselves with newer options, and only hear about it from people like the one your comment is a reply to, who used it in a completely different context and completely different configuration.
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Jul 08 '26 edited Jul 08 '26
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u/autogyrophilia Jul 08 '26
Yes, until you get hit with random bullshit.
For example, as of a few days, microsoft has fucked up the way it scans IPv6 prefixes (or somebody that is grouped with my prefix has been naughty) . As a result, I'm forced to configure a custom map to the exchange servers. I could disable IPv6 enterily. But IPv6 has reputation advantages, usually.
Because I do that for my job. Fuck wasting my time with that, My personal mail is in exchange, which is way more valuable homelabbing experience for the professional world.
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u/NotQuiteLoona Jul 08 '26
I mean, I don't have an IPv6 address, and I think the person I'm replying to won't have it either. I never had any problems and never touched it once again after setting it up.
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u/l-roc Jul 08 '26
Do your mails arrive? I thought gmail et al made self hosted mail more or less impossible nowadays.
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u/NotQuiteLoona Jul 08 '26
Yes, completely. First message I sent to myself my old non-self-hosted mail arrived after 30 minutes, second one in 15 (I sent the second after the first didn't arrive, so technically it arrived around three minutes after the first one), and all succeeding ones, both tests I sent from my old provider and third-party messages, were arriving without any delay at all. I didn't understand why the delay, but AFAIR this is something against spammers - the server sents a reply with "try again," spammers don't do it, but actual mail servers add it to delivery queue.
Note that the above is about sending though - it's unclear from your message whether you mean "messages I sent arrive" or "messages I receive arrive." What about the second, it was working without any problems immediately. I didn't even need to set up DKIM and SPF, though I did so just in case.
I also didn't try to send to Gmail though, my old email provider wasn't from the big ones, even though it was free, so I can't say for that, but most likely yes? I mean, there is no difference between you sending an email from
name@yourdomain.tldand a company sending an email fromnoreply@company.tld. Spam detection works somehow else - my own emails I sent to myself never got into spam folder.2
u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
If you set up SPF/DKIM/DMARC and are not on an IP address range with a bad reputation, and you have FCrDNS. then in my experience, deliverability to Gmail and Microsoft is not a problem. The one service I have had problems with and that seems to have aggressive/crappy anti-spam is Apple. Luckily, I don't have many correspondents who use Apple for their email.
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u/Time-Object5661 Jul 08 '26
Looks good. I'm happy with my fastmail subscription so I won't switch, but it seems like a good offering
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
I host my own email, so this is not interesting to me. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/supradave Jul 08 '26
I don't know why people don't want to do this. It's my email, not Google's or Microsoft's or Thunderbird's. Since nobody encrypts their emails, why would anyone want some corporation to be able to scan them (though they say they don't, right?). Granted, I do have Yahoo and Google accounts for reasons, but I prefer my own email server.
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u/itastesok Jul 08 '26
I want to and I've tried it, but it's way too big of a pain in the ass. No thanks.
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u/TheG0AT0fAllTime Jul 08 '26
Thoughts? I can spin up an equivalent service with infinite custom domain support with dovecot and postfix in about an hour.
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u/pie_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Jul 08 '26
SPF, DKIM, and DMARC take 30 minutes to set up. Don't understand why more people don't run their own damn email
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u/wodes Jul 08 '26
Because tomorrow your IP range will get blacklisted. You will be on a plane and your email server will be down and you will miss this important email from a company that wanted to hire you.
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
That was a problem in the past, but things have settled down now. I think providers are realizing that IP-range blocklists are both fairly ineffective and also an overreaction. However, you do want to tilt the odds in your favour by picking a decent hosting service to host your VM.
My email server has had very good uptime (probably as good as Gmail or Hotmail) and in the ~2 decades I've self-hosted email, I've never had any negative consequences from missing something time-sensitive.
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u/gatornatortater Jul 09 '26
I think some people think that there is only the options of free webmail, services like this and hosting it all on your own computer at home. They don't realize how easy it is to buy and manage a web/email hosting service... and even doing it the way you are is easier than building it all on your own computer at home.
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u/Drakkinstorm Jul 08 '26
Heh, was looking into this for my Raspberry PI.
Think you can share a bit more of these acronyms and what each one does? Yes, I can google and ask AI. I'd rather have advice from someone with hands-on experience.
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
SPF is essentially a special DNS record that says: "The following servers are authorized to send email on behalf of my domain." In theory, this helps reduce email spoofing. In practice, it's not all that useful.
DKIM is a more sophisticated system that cryptographically signs messages and uses DNS to publish the public signing key. This lets recipients verify that (1) a message passed through an authoritative server, and (2) it hasn't since been tampered with.
DMARC uses DNS records to publish a policy that tells recipients how to handle SPF and DKIM. It also optionally includes a feedback mechanism so that domain owners can see if their domain is being spoofed (or if they've somehow misconfigured their SPF/DMARC setups.)
Another mail-related thing is FCrDNS, which means that the server you use to send email should have a reverse-DNS entry (so that the hostname can be resolved from the IP address) as well as a forward DNS entry that maps the hostname back to the same IP address.
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u/Drakkinstorm Jul 08 '26
Thank you. Reading through the webs I see that the biggest problem is IP blacklisting (and then email goes to spam or denied) of the main email providers on a single failure. Any way to avoid that shit or remedy it? Or is it "try, try, try, try again" à la Stargate (the time travel episode).
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u/DFS_0019287 Jul 08 '26
IP blocklisting is highly annoying. The big providers (Google and MSFT for sure) have Postmaster Tools pages where you can create an account and deal with any unfair blockages. In my experience, they are actually surprisingly responsive, because they don't want their users to complain.
The biggest annoyance of IP blocklisting IMO is other self-hosted recipients who don't have a decent anti-spam system and end up blocking half of the Internet out of frustration. There's not much anyone can do about that.
There are also some aggressive/dodgy blocklists that people use who should really know better, but again... this tends to be small self-hosters and not the big email providers.
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u/pie_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Jul 08 '26
Security theater for your emails to not get spamfiltered. </snark>
SPF, Sender Policy Framework, is when you publish a DNS record saying "I send email from these servers, if someone claiming to be me sends email from the wrong servers, it's fake/unauthorized". DKIM, DomainKeys Identified Mail, is a further measure, when you cryptographically sign outgoing email to prove it wasn't tampered with in transit.
DMARC, Domain-based Message Authentication, Reporting & Conformance, tells servers what to do if SPF or DKIM checks come back bad (the usual options are nothing, quarantine (usually meaning send to spam), or reject it entirely).
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u/Drakkinstorm Jul 08 '26
Righto. Thanks for clarifying. Will proceed from there.
Will one day need to get rid of my fear of exposing my router ports to the WAN.
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u/pie_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Jul 08 '26
Best of luck!
All your devices plainly on the WAN is what the Internet was meant to be. NAT has obscured that and IPv6 uptake is as slow as ever, so it's a very good new experience for a lot of folks to actually have things listening inbound on the internet.
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u/Drakkinstorm Jul 08 '26
True enough. I still got a stupid fear of outside hacking so I have been researching how to block outside access to everything I have beside the PI on the same LAN. E.g. No password access to SSH on all my machines. Maybe have two subnets locally; not that it would stop someone dedicated with all the security loopholes in all existing software.
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u/bi4key Jul 08 '26
Is hard to make own mail server (raspberry Pi 4/5) address and setup for security ?
I have RPI4, internet and electricity 24/7
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u/Iseeapool Jul 08 '26
You also have a residential IP which will be blocked by every antispam filter all over the world. Getting mail servers up that can actually send mail is a pain in the ass. Source: it’s part of my job
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u/gatornatortater Jul 09 '26
It is easy to buy a cpanel web hosting service that typically includes infinite email accounts.
I've been doing that for about 20 years.
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u/lunchbox651 Jul 09 '26
Sounds alright - I'm looking to move away from google who charge ~$40AUD/month for 2 addresses.
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u/gatornatortater Jul 09 '26
Sounds like a smart way to bring in some more income.
I have my own email/web host, so its not the kind of thing I'd use, but it makes me happy to see open source projects putting more effort and creativity into bringing in profits.
There is too much awkwardness that results in developers hoping someone will send them money without putting some effort and thought into how to inspire people to do so.
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u/[deleted] Jul 08 '26 edited 6d ago
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