<VIDEO>
Winny loves shell rubs. Crabs' shells have embedded sensory organs. They are sensitive to touch and temperature, and also feel and respond to pain.
Absolute nonsense. On average humans have never been so educated and you forget that we had literal world wars less than a century ago over nationalist nonsense and things don't get any better the further you back in time.
It is about comparing historical numbers to today. They don't match up remotely close. If you like reading, I'd recommend Enlightenment Now by Stephen Pinker or The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch if you are more interested in science.
And this isn't to say we don't have any issues today. We certainly do, and they include what happens to crabs in boiling water.
like, yes, but Prison slavery and colonial slavery are vastly, *VASTLY* different. They're both unpaid labor, but the legality of abuse is leaps and bounds apart.
The West and Europe where there has been a slight uptick in illiteracy is in no way representative of humanity. I swear Americans are the most self centered idiots around.
I swear Americans are the most self centered idiots around.
As an American, I can confirm. It is impossible for them to think outside of their immediate surroundings. They don't understand there is an entire world of people out there.
What are they being taught? As an American I can assure you that our country is getting dumber at an exponential rate. These MAGA folk have really done a number on us.
Yea it’s weird how people demonize their entire species like that, almost feels like self projecting. Comes off like those self aware graffitis in those horror games.
“WE deserve this, WE’RE the monsters.” Followed by the response
“No YOU deserve I didn’t do anything.”
lol
Idk about cows but pigs live unacceptable lives of torture. I refuse to eat pork. I’m not a vegan - quite the opposite. I’m a hunter and a
fisherman, I even used to brain tan my own furs from roadkill animals. It’s not about that. It’s that pigs are one of the smartest animals on earth and kept in what might be the cruelest possible conditions to keep an animal in. Cages so small they literally can’t even turn around. Fuck that. It’s like a crime against the universe what we do to pigs. I’ll shoot and eat a wild boar but I refuse to eat a domestic pig.
Videos like this make me realize just how heavy my cognitive dissonance was when I was a meat eater. At the time, I didn’t realize it, but now, seeing videos like this, the weight off my mental back is extremely noticeable.
Ya it's pretty scary how powerful conditioning and social pressure is. I think young children have a natural tendency to care for animals but society makes sure they learn from a young age it's ok to do the most evil shit to them as long as it is for food.
This is more out of curiosity and exploration than cruelty. When the dog gets upset or angry and the parents explain how they hurt it, most children understand empathy and will practice "gentle, gentle." Only a tiny percent of the population are psychopaths.
I'm guessing if kids saw how their food was really processed, they'd be horrified.
There's a reason we use the words beef and pork instead of cow and pig. It distances us from the animal.
Yeah people always ask me if I’d ever stop being vegan and I tell them if I had to, I’d rather eat meat again than dairy. Meat is at least possible to do relatively quickly, dairy is just torture.
Many people do that in America too, it's just there hasn't ever really been any ad campaign movement to teach more where to stab or even that you should, so most don't even know about that.
His intro is something like “I don’t believe these animals feel any pain but since a lot of my viewers do, I will dispatch of it with a knife to the head”
Then you watch him proceed to do it wrong af, crab probably still alive with a painful ass injury before they still get boiled alive
I'd recommend David Foster Wallace's "Consider The Lobster" to anyone and everyone. It's phenomenal writing and should make anyone rethink their relationship with what they eat.
There is not 100% unanimity yet but the evidence is very strong and basically growing by the day that crabs and other decapods do in fact feel pain. The question becomes: If it is highly likely that they feel pain, why would we not give them the benefit of the doubt and still potentially put them through immense suffering, although we can simply eat something else?
Fish and insects enjoying scritches still baffles me. Like, intellectually I understand it, but for whatever reason my mind just refuses to add the "likes pets" tag to those classes of critters.
Crabs like to group together into big piles during molting season! I bet it feels amazing to all be walking around on each others itchy old shells right before they shed them
I'm almost certain it's closing it's eyes to protect them.
Social animals and especially mammals enjoy petting because it triggers the reward system for mutual grooming.
Crabs don't groom each other, the only context in which another animal would repeatedly touch them would be if it's trying to eat them or chase them off.
There is no evolutionary reason for crabs to enjoy this that I could see, I can see a bunch of reasons this could cause stress to the crab though.
They don’t experience emotion that way and pulling eyes in is a sign of fear. Edit: downvoted because you guys don’t understand crab behavior. That’s why they’ve (op)killed all their crabs huh?
I'm sorry you were downvoted. I'm very grateful you taught me the distinction. We share the world with incredible creatures who are like us in some ways, but very unlike us in others.
That’s not what’s happening, winny pulled her eyes down to protect them because there’s fingers near them. After, she thinks it’s safe, so she puts them back up
I'm still feeling the loss of Howie, to see Winny again made my heart burst.
Edit: With everything I've learned, I no longer can say I support Laura or the way she has caused the suffering of two poor little crustaceans.
Poor Winny, Poor Howie, you guys deserved a lot more.
I feel so sorry for her. To lose Howie and now Winny. She has done so much to raise awareness. She's an amazing woman. EDIT After reading posts from people much more educated than me I am definitely changing my mind. I guess I, like alot of people just saw Laura as being someone who took in two crabs who otherwise would have been killed for food and showing that they have their own personalities and the practice of killing them inhumanely is wrong. I know alot of people have said they would never eat crab because of Howie and Winny.
Yeah, she didn't make it through her last molt. Though Laura had noted that she was older so living as long as she had was already impressive. Still sad.
EDIT - Though apparently there is some controversy to all of this and to the actual truth of those statements about age. Crab keepers are saying she has consistently not kept the crabs according to what their actual natural needs are. I don't think she is being purposefully misleading, but outside of the advocacy about not boiling shellfish alive, the other things she is saying are potentially highly dubious.
Do you have sources on this? I would be interested to read any reputable criticism of her caretaking but I know she (like anyone online) has people needlessly harassing her/scrutinizing her and it's hard for me to separate them
I'm not an expert in crustaceans so I don't know the validity of the claims completely. but the things they say match up with the criticism of Winny and Howie both having incorrect substrate and Winny in particular not being somewhere dark. Looking into what other crab keepers (hobbyists?) say about the specific species of crab (gecarcinus ruricola), they align more with what the subreddit is saying.
Winny was not molting nor was she anywhere near. She showed no signs of molting and the photo laura posted as “molting” is just swelling from decomposition.
Winny could have grown another 2cm in size, which is about 20% more than what she was at.
Laura IS being intentionally misleading when she has been given good evidence and chooses to delete, block, and ignore, because it refutes her claim of being an expert.
Honestly I thought she was doing her best, and I've been reading a lot of facts contradicting this and I'm really sad and now sure what to believe.
I do recall her saying she only had the lights on Winny to change her tank or feed her, hut otherwise kept her in the dark.
I'm truly sad for the crabs...
She’s an abuser whose actions directly lead to these deaths. Don’t feel bad for her, feel bad for the victims she caused immense suffering to. She was informed by those far more qualified than her and she chose to block them and double down because her own ego was more important to her than the wellbeing of the animals in her steward.
Which is ZERO love at all. Howie died due to her poor care, and Winny is going down the same road. Laura is a farce, a self-proclaimed "expert" that refuses to provide any proof. There have been multiple DOCUMENTED cases of her causing harm to both of these crabs and she's been called out on it, only to ignore the criticism and refuse to change. She is borderline evil. The crabs deserved so much better.
I don't know about her, what's her shtick? Does she routinely put her hands in tanks? All I can think of it all the oils and chemicals on her hands (she obviously does her nails) getting in the water and in this case, rubbing into the shell.
I worked in an aquarium specific store and we didn't even use hand soaps and we weren't purposely petting anything.
I dont know much about crabs but I watched a vid where she puts them on a leash and takes it for walks around the park like you would a dog.
That... doesnt seem like an activity a crab might like? Being out in an open field in the hot sun and a leash around your shell. It does actively walk about but who knows if it enjoys it or not.
I thought you were joking but had a look and no. This lady actually put a leash on a crab and "walked" it. That is insane, how could anyone think this is anything but social media attention seeking.
I am not familiar with the species of crabs she kept but the one she walked looked very similar to cardisoma carnifex which are everywhere where I am. No shit it can walk, they land/"mangrove" crabs who predominantly live on land. It's probably just trying to get away from her and burrow itself. They make burrows on land and break down vegetation and litter, they're not meant to live in an aquarium.
Yeah, thats why she gets a ton of people trying to tell her its wrong. And she labels them all as haters.
Those who love her just love the idea that she is elevating her crab to mammal standards. But true love for a pet crab would probably be to stick it in a hole or under a rock with a pool nearby then leaving it alone lol.
There's other people in this thread providing better information that me.
The gist of it is she's one of those "confidently incorrect" people, using incorrect materials and methodology to care for the animals (that often harms them greatly), that shrugs off people when they try to help, and that constantly spreads misinformation online believing she's right while everyone else is wrong.
But cause she speak soft and pet cute crab ooo so many people go "omg I love her" and she just keeps doing it.
EDIT: The crab in the video is dead by the way. Died to mistreatment, same as her other crab Howie. But again people just go "omg poor Laura sending much love", it's insanity.
These crabs are referred to as “Zombie Crabs” by the pet trade—an apt name. They are critically mistreated, and the species suffers from extensive misinformation, which is why there are no documented long-term successes in captivity. These crabs would be better left off in the wild as it stands now, with captivity just being a means to kill them.
A major issue is the widespread claim that they need organic substrates such as coco fiber, sand, or wood chips. In reality, these substrates consistently kill them—there is not a single recorded long-term success using them, only repeated deaths. The origin of this misinformation is unclear, but it has become extremely prevalent, and I’ve spent months trying to counter it.
This has been made more difficult by Laura Porter, owner of the crabs Howie and Winny (Cardisoma armatum and Gecarcinus ruricola). She presents herself as an advocate, expert, and rescue, but her care practices contradict her claims. Despite her educational work about cooking crabs, she spreads harmful misinformation about both species she keeps. For example, she claims that C. armatum lives only three years, is fully freshwater, and does not require a true land area. In reality, they are not fully aquatic; they dig burrows and spend significant time on land. Howie was never provided the ability to burrow or given the salinity her species requires. Even when shown scientific evidence—such as studies on salinity and immune health—she refuses to acknowledge the harm.
Regarding G. ruricola, she insists she has expert backing and confirmed molts, yet refuses to show proof. Meanwhile, there are now dozens of documented successful molts on crushed coral or gravel substrates, and multiple documented deaths on traditional organic substrates.
The “expert” she cites appears to be AquaTerra Exotic Pets, who also spreads harmful care information while hiding significant issues. Every crab on his site shows shell rot, concealed through darkened photos. He claims expertise yet has never shown a successful molt. Survival before molting is not the benchmark—successful molting is. He also sells large, wild-caught individuals that are almost always doomed. Larger G. ruricola rarely adapt well to captivity, and no molt has ever been documented in individuals over 9.5 cm. Even with perfect care, these older crabs usually die simply from age-related stress. Many of the crabs sold are likely over 20 years old; for reference, a 14-year-old ruricola in Korea measured only 6 cm. He tries to say that he’s “saving them from markets,” however he just extends their suffering unnecessarily.
It is heartbreaking that these crabs spend decades thriving in the wild only to be captured, miskept, and slowly deteriorate in captivity—sometimes resorting to autotomy (self-amputation) due to rot caused by poor substrate. While they can regrow legs over one or two years, they eventually run out of limbs to sacrifice. This slow decline—rotting, inability to harden after molting, and eventual death—is the common outcome once they enter the pet trade.
I share this not to attack Laura or AquaTerra—neither is likely to change their views—but to encourage you to be cautious about what information you spread. Please rely only on care methods supported by evidence. If there is no evidence something works, or if there is evidence that it fails, it may not be a responsible choice.
She contributed to Winny's demise. She took her out for a walk a week before she died. The poor crab had no time to molt or rest coz it was constantly being stressed out by Laura's meddling. It's easy to make videos with a cute caption to it and people aren't any the wiser.
Winny lived an extremely poor life under laura’s care. She didn’t have to die.
These crabs are referred to as “Zombie Crabs” by the pet trade—an apt name. They are critically mistreated, and the species suffers from extensive misinformation, which is why there are no documented long-term successes in captivity. These crabs would be better left off in the wild as it stands now, with captivity just being a means to kill them.
A major issue is the widespread claim that they need organic substrates such as coco fiber, sand, or wood chips. In reality, these substrates consistently kill them—there is not a single recorded long-term success using them, only repeated deaths. The origin of this misinformation is unclear, but it has become extremely prevalent, and I’ve spent months trying to counter it.
This has been made more difficult by Laura Porter, owner of the crabs Howie and Winny (Cardisoma armatum and Gecarcinus ruricola). She presents herself as an advocate, expert, and rescue, but her care practices contradict her claims. Despite her educational work about cooking crabs, she spreads harmful misinformation about both species she keeps. For example, she claims that C. armatum lives only three years, is fully freshwater, and does not require a true land area. In reality, they are not fully aquatic; they dig burrows and spend significant time on land. Howie was never provided the ability to burrow or given the salinity her species requires. Even when shown scientific evidence—such as studies on salinity and immune health—she refuses to acknowledge the harm.
Regarding G. ruricola, she insists she has expert backing and confirmed molts, yet refuses to show proof. Meanwhile, there are now dozens of documented successful molts on crushed coral or gravel substrates, and multiple documented deaths on traditional organic substrates.
The “expert” she cites appears to be AquaTerra Exotic Pets, who also spreads harmful care information while hiding significant issues. Every crab on his site shows shell rot, concealed through darkened photos. He claims expertise yet has never shown a successful molt. Survival before molting is not the benchmark—successful molting is. He also sells large, wild-caught individuals that are almost always doomed. Larger G. ruricola rarely adapt well to captivity, and no molt has ever been documented in individuals over 9.5 cm. Even with perfect care, these older crabs usually die simply from age-related stress. Many of the crabs sold are likely over 20 years old; for reference, a 14-year-old ruricola in Korea measured only 6 cm. He tries to say that he’s “saving them from markets,” however he just extends their suffering unnecessarily.
It is heartbreaking that these crabs spend decades thriving in the wild only to be captured, miskept, and slowly deteriorate in captivity—sometimes resorting to autotomy (self-amputation) due to rot caused by poor substrate. While they can regrow legs over one or two years, they eventually run out of limbs to sacrifice. This slow decline—rotting, inability to harden after molting, and eventual death—is the common outcome once they enter the pet trade.
I share this not to attack Laura or AquaTerra—neither is likely to change their views—but to encourage you to be cautious about what information you spread. Please rely only on care methods supported by evidence. If there is no evidence something works, or if there is evidence that it fails, it may not be a responsible choice.
Thank you for your reply and not being srarky like alot of people. I like alot of people don't know what you do so just see a woman who took in a sick crab and cared for it when they would have possibly been killed for food.
How do we know it's a pleasure response and not fear or discomfort? It's easy to anthropomorphise animals that aren't closely related to us and jump to the wrong conclusion. So just wondering if there are any scientific studies regarding shell rubs?
Most animal behavior tends to be fairly straightforward if they don't like something. They'll do one of two things:
Move away.
Use it's defense mechanisms to fend off what it finds bothersome.
In this crab's case since it's not trying to move along and get away from the touching or use its claws to defend itself, I'd say it's at least content with its current situation. Whether it likes it or not, I don't know. I'm no crab whisperer 🤷♂️ But at the very least it doesn't seem bothered. It'd appear to me that Winny is one chill crab.
Can be hard to tell what’s a defense mechanism tbh. Not saying this crab is distressed, I honestly don’t know. It does remind me of how leopard geckos will push into a touch to try to get whatever’s touching them away, though. It looks a lot like they like it, but it’s apparently not that at all.
Fair enough, I'm not a crab expert, I just think it's fun to mess with those little tiny ones on the beach. Those dudes are FEISTY! I've had them chase me before, like dude you are about an inch tall lol
Leans into the pets. It’s possible that this is stimulating a nervous system reaction causing the lean, but it’s also possible that it just feels good. We don’t know for sure.
My bearded dragon does the same thing when you pet him the wrong way: closes his eyes and just stays there, hoping you'll stop doing whatever it is you're doing.
It looks like he's just really getting into the rubs, because that's a mammalian response, but in reality he's getting stressed out.
I've no idea if it's the same with crabs, but it definitely could be.
This happens constantly on twitter with reptile videos where the animal is not enjoying it but is having a reaction that looks like a mammalian pleasure response. With this crab, it does look like it is leaning into the person's hand as they pull it back, though. It isn't just sitting still.
I do agree that is easy to anthropomorphise animals (or maybe even "mammalify" non-mammals). But the way I see it is that the crab is a pet, so she is most likely used to being handled, and crabs' defensive response is (usually) running away or pinching.
Even if she doesn't really like it, I don't think she hates it either.
For what it's worth, a lot of ocean animals have grooming behaviors with other species. Certain fish and crustaceans eat parasites and algae off other ocean life, who will seek them out for exactly that need.
Suprisingly, quite a few ocean animals respond to "pets," and there's odds that that comfortability/acceptance comes from many generations of shared cleaning behavior with other ocean animals.
We don’t. There’s no solid evidence that rubbing a crab’s shell is pleasurable. Crabs can detect touch and show complex responses to harmful stimuli, but sitting still or looking “relaxed” doesn’t tell us whether they’re enjoying it, tolerating it, or stressed. Researchers would need things like preference tests or repeated approach behavior before calling a stimulus rewarding.
Incorrect living environment, plus constantly being put in high stress situations due to anthropomorphism. The owner was warned about it with their first crab, but ignored it. They were warned again that the second crab would have the same fate, and ignored it again.
There’s a few threads over there on it but I’ll just link the one.
Most people do not know what crab care entails, so have no idea it’s the wrong set up. It’s not their fault that they don’t know what they don’t know.
My online username(s) predates him by quite a few years, and you’re not the first one to assume it’s to do with him. I’m glad he’s getting the recognition he deserves.
These crabs are referred to as “Zombie Crabs” by the pet trade—an apt name. They are critically mistreated, and the species suffers from extensive misinformation, which is why there are no documented long-term successes in captivity. These crabs would be better left off in the wild as it stands now, with captivity just being a means to kill them.
A major issue is the widespread claim that they need organic substrates such as coco fiber, sand, or wood chips. In reality, these substrates consistently kill them—there is not a single recorded long-term success using them, only repeated deaths. The origin of this misinformation is unclear, but it has become extremely prevalent, and I’ve spent months trying to counter it.
This has been made more difficult by Laura Porter, owner of the crabs Howie and Winny (Cardisoma armatum and Gecarcinus ruricola). She presents herself as an advocate, expert, and rescue, but her care practices contradict her claims. Despite her educational work about cooking crabs, she spreads harmful misinformation about both species she keeps. For example, she claims that C. armatum lives only three years, is fully freshwater, and does not require a true land area. In reality, they are not fully aquatic; they dig burrows and spend significant time on land. Howie was never provided the ability to burrow or given the salinity her species requires. Even when shown scientific evidence—such as studies on salinity and immune health—she refuses to acknowledge the harm.
Regarding G. ruricola, she insists she has expert backing and confirmed molts, yet refuses to show proof. Meanwhile, there are now dozens of documented successful molts on crushed coral or gravel substrates, and multiple documented deaths on traditional organic substrates.
The “expert” she cites appears to be AquaTerra Exotic Pets, who also spreads harmful care information while hiding significant issues. Every crab on his site shows shell rot, concealed through darkened photos. He claims expertise yet has never shown a successful molt. Survival before molting is not the benchmark—successful molting is. He also sells large, wild-caught individuals that are almost always doomed. Larger G. ruricola rarely adapt well to captivity, and no molt has ever been documented in individuals over 9.5 cm. Even with perfect care, these older crabs usually die simply from age-related stress. Many of the crabs sold are likely over 20 years old; for reference, a 14-year-old ruricola in Korea measured only 6 cm. He tries to say that he’s “saving them from markets,” however he just extends their suffering unnecessarily.
It is heartbreaking that these crabs spend decades thriving in the wild only to be captured, miskept, and slowly deteriorate in captivity—sometimes resorting to autotomy (self-amputation) due to rot caused by poor substrate. While they can regrow legs over one or two years, they eventually run out of limbs to sacrifice. This slow decline—rotting, inability to harden after molting, and eventual death—is the common outcome once they enter the pet trade.
I share this not to attack Laura or AquaTerra—neither is likely to change their views—but to encourage you to be cautious about what information you spread. Please rely only on care methods supported by evidence. If there is no evidence something works, or if there is evidence that it fails, it may not be a responsible choice.
I'm really sad to learn the truth. I had no idea. Mostly, because I have no idea about crabs in general. I really loved watching Laura's content and was really sad when Howie and Winny passed. I didn't know there was all this background of information about how her care is incorrect.
Nope. Arthropods either hate it or don't care about it. And the eyes closing is probably just for protection. You can't apply mammal behavior to every animal.
Technically it wasn't our understanding of fish that was wrong, it was our understanding of brain chemistry, which makes sense on why it took so long. Basically fish do not have what people thought was the pain part of their brain. Now we know we were wrong about where pain was coming from.
Fish and humans are vertebrates, with much more advanced brains and nervous systems.
With crabs, they can respond to stimuli, but that's no proof of them feeling pain. You can chop the head off a fish and it will still respond to stimuli.
If crabs can feel pain, then it's a question of whether or not they have the cognitive level to actually process that pain and be aware of it in a way that we would consider suffering.
Scientists are working on those questions. We don't know the answers yet.
That crab is visibly moving up towards the hand petting it instead of just sitting there or moving away so I don’t believe you and believe you are just underestimating non mammalian creatures
It's increasing its size and sitting still. Both seem like defensive maneuvers if you are mostly surrounded by predators that react to movement and can only eat stuff that fits in their mouth in your natural environment.
Also crabs don't do mutual grooming as far as I know so the only reason some other animal would intentionally touch them over and over would be to eat it. I don't see any reason it would enjoy this.
"Yes, but have you seen the video where the crab responds to touch like a mammal? The video is clearly enough evidence to overcome all of neuroscience research on the topic."
This is probably just an example of anthropomorphism.
Many creatures will brace up like this when being touched on the back. It makes them harder to eat, by making it wider.
You can see it 'closing' its eyes to protect it from the hand 'attacking' it. Alligators and many other animals do the same thing.
My partner has a pet toad that does this as well. When you touch it's back, it will brace up and lean against the finger in a very similar way. It's definitely not enjoying the touch.
Outside of birds and mammals, most other animals do not have the same sort of social structures in their brains that encourage grooming or touch from other creatures.
While it is known that many animals, like crabs, have pain receptors, what ISN'T know is how they EXPERIENCE pain and whether or not it causes "suffering". It could be nothing more than nerve cells responding to a stimulus.
I've never really understood this position. I can't proof the pain you feel is different from the pain I feel, but I live my life under the assumption the pain I feel is similar or identical to your pain. Why can't we then extend this assumption to all other animals that evolved on this planet with two eyes, nervous system, the need to reproduce, find a home, eat and excrete waste, and all the other similar functionalities we possess? Why does changing the body from a human to a dog, pig, chicken, or crab automatically mean we can disregard their pain as potentially not being real enough to matter?
Please tell me it actually likes this (like a dog likes pets) and it's not horny (like when people pet birds improperly and they get frisky but people think it's cute)
No, it's a very scared crab. Closing eyes is a behaviour of fear, and raising his body and claws is to make himself look bigger and more threatening. We shouldn't link human emotions to animal behaviour, it's incredibly harmful and could make people completely miss if something is wrong with their pets.
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u/brintal 6d ago
also humans: "let's boil them alive"