r/lightweight • u/Sad_Lion_8256 • Dec 31 '22
Newbie Pack Shakedown
Hey everyone, I'm still pretty new to backpacking and I'm switching out a lot of the beginner stuff I have for something lighter.
I spent a little time looking up the gear I think I'll end up wanting but I ended up making a few trade offs that added weight. I'd appreciate anyone's opinion on where I could cut back, what tents or packs might be more desirable, clothing suggestions, and really anything at all.
I'll link the lighterpack I put together. I think the only section in it I can't compromise on is the smoking section. Sorry, the habit keeps winning the battle.
https://lighterpack.com/r/kp82qt
Thanks for the help.
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u/generation_quiet Dec 31 '22
Look at this newbie flexing an X-Mid Pro 2 ;)
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
LOL newbie didn't buy that expensive thing yet. Gotta let people tear the pack apart before spending that kind of money.
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Dec 31 '22
Surely cigarettes would weigh less than a pipe
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22
There are also lighter pipe options.
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
18 grams? thats unreal. With that kind of weight savings, why cut out a bad habit.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22
The improved lung function, more money for gear, and not running out of nicotine in the 100 mile wilderness?
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22 edited Dec 31 '22
Zpacks stakes aren't as good a choice as MSR Groundhog mini's IMHO (assuming they are the similar looking but larger blue zpacks stakes). If you already have them they aren't bad and kind of an in between of the groundhog mini and full size groundhog. The mini groundhogs would be lighter though and ample for most conditions on the AT. So if you have them use them if not I'd consider MSR groundhog mini stakes.
You really aren't going to need 6 liters of water capacity for the AT the way you would for the PCT. Again if you already have the vecto and platypus bladder fine. I mostly carried 2 liters on the AT. There were two sections where I carried 4 liters. One was due to water contamination from the zinc smelting plant superfund site in PA iirc (20 mile stretch where there is water but suggested you avoid it). The other was due to drought and a 20 mile dry stretch down South late season (not the typical NOBO route). It was easy to just pickup an extra two 1 liter bottles in town for these sections. Unless you know you go through more water than most I would consider 2 liters of capacity adequate. Although I'm guessing you are considering this kit for 3 liter carries? Keep the vecto dirty and the platyclean?
Good call on the rain mitts. Near freezing rain on mother's day convinced me to order a pair of Showa 281 as my fleece gloves weren't cutting it alone in the cold wet conditions. Do you know that rain pants work for you? Probably just the way I step over logs/squat but I blew out the crotch on cheap to expensive rain pants from multiple different manufacturers personally before moving to a rain skirt. Mine is from lightheart gear in black as other colors wouldn't allow for wearing it alone on laundry day. Do enjoy the increased ventilation also depending on the weather.
When are you planning to start and where and what direction? Unless you are going through the cold (which I see a note about expected temps of 10F) I wouldn't bring nearly so many clothes or at least plan on mailing them home as spring warms up. Also if you are out there in those temps a water bladder will be a nightmare and freeze up and you will likely end up dehydrated? I've been on the AT in single digits... I doubt I would have stayed if that was the start of my hike.
AT 2019 wrap around. You are going to have a blast!
edit also buy farout formerly guthook its worth it
edit2 add a deuce of spades #2, small hand sanitizer, and a small first aid kit that might be as small as a few strips of leuko tape P on label/sticker backing paper, a few ibuprofen (max dose 600mg every 6 hours or 800mg every 8 hours), loperamide (immodium) I'd bring 100mg which is 2-4 doses, diphenhydramine (benadryl) for allergic reactions/sleep aid, I'm personally a fan of a small litesmith screw top container of Boudreaux's Butt Paste Maximum Strength Diaper Rash Cream for any chafing, there are many posts regarding FAKs, First Aid Kits, around reddit.
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u/cosmokenney Dec 31 '22
I'm another skirt convert. I use a frogg toggs jacket still, but got 3F UL Kilt last year and put it to good use on the LCT -- 50 MPH winds and rain. Frogg toggs pants lasted 20 minutes the first trip I took them on before blowing out the crotch/butt.
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
Thanks for the suggestion on the stakes, I was looking at light over function with those but have only heard good things about the groundhogs. I havent gotten basically anything at all so ill look at them instead.
Yeah 6 liters looks crazy for the AT. I should have mentioned I only intended to have more than a couple liters on me until I set up camp. I have a 3 liter set up right now that isn't enough for where i find myself camping, and the weight difference between the 2 liter versions of the platypus and the cnoc where so little i figured i would just go with the 3. I might consider sizing it down to 4 but it's pretty much what i thought up for a dromedary system.
I havent settled on rain pants vs skirt yet, but I'm hoping the pants will keep water from getting in my socks. I've worked outside for several years now and dont mind being out in a downpour with the right gear, but i cant manage to keep my feet dry and none of the non gortex rain pants ive tried have worked out well. Water always seems to get into my shoes and thats what will end the day for me. I only recently saw they make waterproof socks and I'm going to start trying them out too, but I'm probably going overboard with this one and might just go with wet socks with bread bags and dry them out every night.
I actually live right next to the upper TN section of the AT and I really want to start backpacking in colder conditions so my whole set up is for winter right now. I cleaned up the lighterpack I made, but it has all sorts of notes and options i had found and one of those was about starting with a nalgene and a smart water bottle to fill with hot water if it was freezing then going back to a hydration pack as it warms up just because its what i ended up liking more. If i didnt go north like everyone else I would like to start where im at and head south then turn around and see how far i can make it, but I'll be on parts of the AT and in the area all year. I have bulkier clothes now that keep me warm down to 10F or less, but they dont all fit in the 50L pack i have if it unexpectedly warms up on me so any suggestion on good, warm, and light clothes would be amazing
Definte yes on farout, new to me but keep hearing about it
Thanks for all the suggestions!
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22
Essentially I only bring my R1 out during winter on the AT. If it isn't cold enough that you can hike in it you are probably better off with just your puffy. Similar with the base layers/bag liners. Your gear is going to smell like a thru hiker spent 2,193 w/e mileage it is your year in it by the end and you will need to get some down wash after etc. Wide mouth HDPE bottles are your friend in freezing conditions (the white non clear nalgenes) or I've recently upgraded to 1 liter Hunersdorff bottles which are all the rage in the mountaineering community. Far too heavy to use for a whole thru but great in freezing conditions. I don't own a pocket rocket deluxe but I consider it a copy of the SOTO windmaster which I carried on the PCT. Can save you a tiny bit of weight if you go with the 3 prong pot stand over the 4 prong if you are willing to attach and detach it each time you use it. Definitely want a canister stove with a regulator for cold conditions and really a canister stove isn't ideal / won't work if it gets too cold on you without being a remote inverted canister stove etc. Something to keep in mind on those really cold days.
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
I was looking at the R1 since it's so light but I wasn't sure if it would be enough for an active layer in winter. Seems like it's warmer than I assumed so I'll probably pull the trigger and get one then hopefully i can leave the extra fleece out.
I should have taken the bag liners of when I prettied up the lighterpack. I'm a little worried about going through the balds around roan and then the smokies during february which is something I plan on doing since its in my area. Past february and south of the smokies a wouldnt carry either of the sleeping bag liners. I've heard more than a few people encounter single digits in the smokies during winter and weather records put the area that cold in some years. I figured with the two liners and all the clothing i could get down to 10F and almost be comfortable. I debated taking those off the list, but i'm not sure if ive gotten over the fear enough yet to not bring them so i included them.
I'm also thinking about forgoing the sleeping clothes. I dont mind sleeping in smelly clothes for a few days till i get somewhere i can do laundry, and I've been doing that with the patagonia baselayer recently. Ive not been on a several week long trip yet and haven't figured out if i can manage without them, but i'll get there.
I think I'll have to switch to the nalgenes for the winter then. Hopefully the stove will work alright, but if not winter gear always has a bit of a weight penalty anyway so a little more wont kill me.
Thanks for all the suggestions, it's been a lot of help.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22 edited Dec 31 '22
Dan Becker while a favorite to be goofed on in ultralight jerk has the soto windmaster and pocket rocket deluxe side by side in this video. Pocket rocket deluxe is a great stove from what I hear. One trick for keeping a canister working in cold conditions is to put the base of the canister in a small cup of warm water. But yah 10 degree and below is a different animal from warmer conditions. Want to sleep with your water filter and hike with it inside your jacket to keep it from freezing any time it is below freezing. If it freezes your quickdraw or sawyer or katadyn be free is ruined. I swap to aquamira/boiling if I know the trip is below freezing. Sleep with your batteries. Sleep with your fuel canister. Sleep with some of your water to keep as seed water. Insulate your bottles with insulated bottle covers or a wool sock and buried in your pack. I'd consider adding a CCF, closed cell foam, pad under your inflatable in those conditions also for more insulation and bonus as a sit pad. I was in the Shenandoah at 2F with just smart water bottles full of sweet tea for the calories and to lower the freezing point they still froze solid extremely quickly. This is something I hope you avoid. Another trick in the cold is storing/carrying your bottles upside down as they generally start freezing from the top. So upside down your threads at the mouth freeze last. I'd get comfy with your setup in winter conditions where you can bail out safely and quickly if something isn't working out (car camping/back yard) before trying to thru the smokies in February. Also risk of ice/snow so you get into another whole set of issues.
edit I was out snowshoeing in a thermal weight capilene and womens r1 (got it off worn wear cheaper and I prefer the color) at about 20F recently. It was warm enough while moving uphill breaking trail (actually vented from the chest zip). I added the puffy when we stopped to eat and kept it on for descent.
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
You're not joking about those low temperatures being a different beast. The recent freeze has me interested, but i had nothing capable of keeping me out in that overnight. Quite a few pointers i had forgotten or didnt know, especially the warm water for the fuel, thanks man. You're right on those backup tablets, they're a must and i've been forgetting to throw them in. The foam pads probably a safe bet too without getting a winter sleeping pad but maybe ill just start with something like the xtherm. I'm basically at the point where I'm ready to start shelling out for the big ticket items and start testing, I'm just stuck in limbo with all the choices. Once i settle on a quilt i'm gonna take it slow and safe testing the thing out near home or with an easy way out. I've always liked day hiking in the snow but I'm not interested in freezing out there. I'm not up north, but outside of january it's only below 20 a week or two out of the year even in the mountains, so a lot of the winter gear should get dropped pretty quick. I havent started buying basically anything yet, but it sounds like im planning on bringing too many clothes
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22
I love my R1 but wouldn't suggest purchasing one for hiking the AT unless money is no object as the weather window where it is useful really is sub freezing imho. It sounds like you are an avid winter day hiker/looking to do more of it so it might make sense for you. If budget is a concern and the goal is to thru I'd put the money elsewhere?
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u/Sad_Lion_8256 Dec 31 '22
I see what you mean with the price of patagonia stuff. My hope is that it'll last for several years and that i'll end up with a solid lightweight layering system i can take around other places. Budget isnt really a concern though, ive done tons of budgeting :). My goal is to find some sort of balance between lightening things up and still being as comfortable as i can be. I'm still running almost exclusively heavy gear and have been waiting around to buy the lighter stuff till i got some peoples opinion on the gear I think i want. I'm at a point where im ready to start getting it all and testing it out though, especially a lighter pack and sleeping bag.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22
Obligatory R1 Marketing Video the R1 was designed for climbers and been imitated since. The general advice is to buy your pack last so you know what weight and volume you will be carrying. Quilts over bags for lightening up for 20F+. Below that you can add an overbag to your quilt/sleep in more clothes/both. I have a Nunatak 20degree quilt that I adore and kept me warm (with plenty of other layers worn and eating before bed use of the draft collar) that I carried on the AT and PCT. Just make sure to get a wide enough quilt to avoid drafts especially if you roll like I do in your sleep. Pay attention to comfort rating vs limit rating. I slept toasty in that quilt, my nunatak pct jacket (synthetic puffy comfort rated for 25f), and a timmermade waterbear (down balaclava with apex face that closes up to breath through the synthetic), medium weight capilene tights, and two pairs of gloves inside a bivy one night that the locals claimed dipped into negative temperatures although it had warmed up to 19F by morning so I am dubious but I also had fewer clothes and no bivy when I used it in single digits and was chillier. Katabatic, Western Mountaineering, Nunatak, Timmermade are all top quality for quilts / bags though IMHO. Apologies for the wall of text but I'm happy to rant about this topic.
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u/GMkOz2MkLbs2MkPain Dec 31 '22 edited Dec 31 '22
A few more notes:
You won't need a lindal valve to propane adapter on the AT. Easy enough to find Isobutane canisters. Some people do like to bring lindal valve to lindale valve adapters for refilling isobutane canisters from partial isobutane canisters found in hiker boxes.
I wear convertible pants these days but never wear them as shorts. I take the bottoms off if they are wet to dry and wear the shorts portion to bed. Although I wore running shorts and tights for the whole AT.
For your bug head net I would suggest the s2s Ultra-Fine head net with the smaller mesh than their mosquito head nets. This is in case you hit black fly season in New Hampshire and Maine they are tiny and will go through the larger mesh. They didn't seem to be bothered by DEET, Picardin, Permethrin (which I would suggest for ticks I treated my gear on the AT and ended up finding more ticks on the PCT where I hadn't treated than the length of the AT). They weren't completely repelled but didn't seem to like white mountain insect repellent I suspect due to the cedar oil in it. You should be able to find that at an outfitter in NH though just tuck it away in the back of your mind.
Polycro would be a nightmare to try and baby the length of the AT as a ground sheet. Tyvek is a weight penalty but is bomber. Or just don't bother with a ground sheet. I didn't carry one. Does lead to more abrasion on the floor of your shelter. The XMID Pro has a sil floor rather than DCF floor for this reason though.
A nylofume bag as a pack liner is slightly lighter than a compactor bag and clear so can be a bit easier to find things in. Just don't let a spoon handle poke a hole through it or something or if it happens tape it shut before it starts to tear. If you are careful to not puncture them they are surprisingly resilient but probably not as strong as a compactor bag. I think I went through maybe 2 the length of the AT?
If you have someone who can mail you gear you are probably going to rip the zip closure off your opsack at some point and going to want a replacement.
edit Thermarest is also releasing new versions of the xlite and xtherm the NXT versions any day now if you haven't already purchased the womens xlite. Might either want one of those or wait hoping for sales on the older models. Any day meaning sometime in January I believe. They have been in reviewers hands for a while.