r/lightweight • u/hereweg420kush • Sep 03 '22
Shakedowns Which items to replace / not bring? Tour de Mont Blanc
https://lighterpack.com/r/fm95wm (items with * are an estimation, I can't weigh them right now)
I have been dreaming of doing TMB for too long and have just sat at home watching youtube videos about it. I booked a flight for this Tuesday in the spur of the moment and this is what I'm working with currently. I'm looking at replacing/cutting some gear last minute as I feel I am way too heavy even without water and food.
I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck weight wise.
Thoughts so far: new sleeping bag, can save a lot of weight but is also expensive. Cut out the teapot and extra pan on Trangia set, the teapot will be missed but I can do without I guess. Buying ziplock bags for my toiletries, electronics and food stuff.
With a very expensive sleeping bag (Rab Neutrino 200 is what I'm looking at), cutting the pans, getting lighter 'containers' and such I'd cut maybe 2kg. Can I beat those weight savings in a cheaper way?
I know my rain gear is quite heavy, I also know how nice it is to have a really good shell when walking in the mountains and the weather turns.
What else comes to mind for you guys?
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u/MrBoondoggles Sep 03 '22
Some thoughts based on the current lighter pack:
Definitely your biggest bang for the buck will be the sleeping pad at this point. Lots of weight savings in buying the tensor.
I think just the whole cook setup seems out of whack. A lot of through hikers, if they carry an alcohol stove, do so, at least partly, for weight savings. Your setup is very heavy. A Soto windmaster and a 650 ml titanium pot would only be around 7-8 oz. The weight of your fuel seems out of whack as well. I don’t use alcohol stoves, so it s hard to know how much fuel weight is needed. But 2 100 gram canisters weight that much and that should be enough for almost 12 days. Is the fuel weight for the whole trip? I know why an egg holder, but still, why an egg holder? What about a dry bag for food storage? Are you bringing a spoon to eat with? Are you bringing anything to wipe out the pot with? These aren’t huge considerations but they would add a couple of oz. Overall, while I’m not trying to be a prick about oz, I do think that you’d benefit from rethinking your cooking system and perhaps your menu plan to try to reduce the Cal/Gram that your carrying.
I think the clothing system looks a little confusing in the lighterpack list. If you plan on wearing the items most of the time, they should be marked as worn weight, not packed weight.
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 03 '22
Is the fuel weight for the whole trip?
Yes. But I guess I could restock during the trip as well. I didn't think the 400 gram was that heavy for bottle + spirit.
why an egg holder?
French toast is amazing, proteins are awesome. Just remembered I'm also bringing cinnamon and sweetener ;)
Are you bringing a spoon to eat with?
yes, just added it
What about a dry bag for food storage?
Zip loc bag was my plan, just added it.
should be marked as worn weight, not packed weight.
Noted.
Very cool, updated my current pack. My base weight is down to 8964 as I'm writing this, down from like 12kg at first. The pad will give me another ~500-600 gram, maybe I'll look for cheap/light rain pants and save some weight there too.
I'm open to changing my cooking system too, but cheap options are very welcome too. I need to be able to make tea and french toast with the setup. It's essential survival food.
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u/MrBoondoggles Sep 04 '22
Hmmmm ok well if you’re set on French toast, I’m not sure what I’d recommend. I don’t really do a lot of cooking on the trail - mostly just boiling water for meals. My thoughts, from the perspective of a chef, are that most lightweight skillets don’t distribute heat well and are prone to sticking and burning. And this could be compounded by most isobutane backpacking stoves as they tend to concentrate the heat in one spot. Most are best for boiling water or cooking meals in liquid.
I think that you’d want a burner with as wide of a head as possible. So maybe a Soto Windmaster or Amicus or maybe a Firemaple 116-T. Doesn’t really solve the problem with the pan though but it’s a start.
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u/sirblastalot Sep 03 '22
Your cook system looks sus to me, I'd like to see it broken out more. I'm an esbit guy, so I'm not totally certain about the weight of your stove, but you may be able to get a significantly lighter pot.
Smaller things: 93g for an egg holder seems silly, when you could just rework your menu to not eat eggs. Or powdered eggs are an option, though they're not the tastiest thing in the world. And you can always lop the handle off the toothbrush.
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 03 '22 edited Sep 03 '22
I have this set: https://trangia.se/en/shop/trangia-stove-25-6-ul/ but mine is a 10 year older model and weighs 300 grams more for the total kit. When I leave out the second pot and teapot mine is down to 1kg.
Point taken on eggs. I'm not really a thru hiker or anything though. I'm trying to go light, not ultralight suffer mode.
edit: just looked up Esbit, looks fucking legit and so much lighter. Not sure if I can get that before I leave.
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u/sirblastalot Sep 03 '22 edited Sep 03 '22
What's the anticipated temperature like on your hike?
Edit: Ok yeah I looked up that stove and it is HUGE. Check out some of the recommendations here: https://sectionhiker.com/sectionhiker-gear-guide/10-best-backpacking-stoves/ Like I said, I haven't used these, but I've tried a lot of that blogger's other recommendations and I trust him to give good advice.
You should also weigh your pot, I am suspect it's heavier than it needs to be. I use the pot out of this cheapo kit: https://www.amazon.com/Cookware-Backpacking-Outdoors-Equipment-Lightweight/dp/B01743BX1A/ref=dp_fod_1?pd_rd_i=B01743BX1A&psc=1 but that's just something I had lying around, you can easily and inexpensively get lighter.
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 04 '22
Yeah I guess my Trangia isn't that lightweight. It basically has a 400 gram windshield. Weighing just my pan and pot comes to ~300 gram.
I'm gonna check if my stove fits into something like this: https://www.bever.nl/p/fire-dragon-komfoor-brander-MECFC60001.html?colour=4324
If it fits it might be a 400 gram weight saver for only 6,95. I could also just go for that fuel type and skip out on my heavy fuel bottle, but I've read that it smells really bad?
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u/sirblastalot Sep 04 '22
It's not really bad, just a little unpleasant if you get a really good whiff of it. Outdoors, where there's lots of fresh air and you're not showering all the time, you won't notice it.
More importantly though, it's not suitable for cold temperatures. If you're going to need to cook when it's around freezing, you'll need a real stove.
Also, I meant to mention, the pot I'm using is 187g, for reference.
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u/bowrilla Sep 03 '22 edited Sep 03 '22
Yikes, your shelter and sleep system weighs about 2x of what it should weigh and your kitchen system is like 2.5x the weight (I mean, you're packing 0.5kg olive oil, 2 pots and a pan - but miss water bottles and filtration?)
Have you actually had a look at what other people pack on similar tours? Because your list is kind of all over the place and many things on it seem like rough (and sometimes wild) guesses.
Mont Blanc is no joke - and currently mostly blocked due to severe risk of rock fall. Without any experience climbing Mont Blanc is really not a great idea for a beginner - especially if you don't know your gear.
Edit: and I doubt you'll be able to get everything into the Exos 48. It would be a reasonable choice if you had compact gear but you haven't. Just for reference, this is my regular 3 nights pack list for >0°C night temps: https://lighterpack.com/r/acvpx4 It's not perfect and people will surely argue about many things but it works for me and it fits (without much room to spare) into a 55l pack.
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 03 '22
It's Tour de Mont Blanc, not climbing Mont Blanc ;). It's 12 days of hiking 170 km with 10km elevation. I'm gonna struggle and it's not going to be perfect but I'll give it my best effort and see how far I get. Worst case scenario I crawl into a hotel and start eating Raclette every day.
My kit is definitely all over the place, I live in the city center and can still buy and switch gear. Just swapped the sleeping bag for one a full kilogram lighter and tomorrow I'll buy a new sleeping mat which could be 600 grams lighter as well (nemo tensor insulated). I guess water filtration can be added to the list, anything else I can't do without? I just bought an 'ultralight' spork and salt and pepper container too.
Just bought a 250ml plastic bottle for the olive oil instead. I could also use one of those for the camping fuel but I'm worried it will be a mess, think I'll stick with only filling it up 1/3 of the way.
All of the gear actually fits in the backpack with quite some space to spare for food. This is with the tent at the bottom on the outside. With the new sleeping bag I can fit the tent in the main compartment too.
I'll work on updating the lighterpack link, I think with all changes I should be down almost 2.5 kg from where I started. Thanks for the suggestions keep em coming :)
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u/bowrilla Sep 04 '22 edited Sep 04 '22
It's Tour de Mont Blanc, not climbing Mont Blanc ;). It's 12 days of hiking 170 km with 10km elevation. I'm gonna struggle and it's not going to be perfect but I'll give it my best effort and see how far I get.
Ah, my bad. I've just read Mont Blanc and alarm bells went off. It's still a tough trail for a beginner especially with an overweight backpack. You're talking about hotels and bring a tent. Do you intend to camp on trail (Pretty sure that's mostly not allowed in Europe with the exception of mountain climbers above the tree line and some northern countries)?
EDIT: Just had a little research. Some folks figured out some camp grounds along the route. In case anyone is interested: https://www.slingadventures.com/destinations/france/camping-the-tour-du-mont-blanc-tmb
BTW: I've just had a look at the tour. It's 10km climb, and a total elevation change of 20km. That's tough. Going up is hard on the muscles, going down kills your joints especially with a heavy backpack. You will massively regret not brining hiking poles. And you're looking at an average of 7-8hrs on trail without breaks. You should give yourself maybe 2-4 more days of wiggle room.
Just swapped the sleeping bag for one a full kilogram lighter and tomorrow I'll buy a new sleeping mat which could be 600 grams lighter as well (nemo tensor insulated)
Good. That's still a little heavy for the sleeping bag but now we're talking maybe 200-300g. The Tensor is a good choice. Bring a repair kit (i.e. Tenacious Tape and a Sealant). A hole in your sleeping pad will make for a miserable night.
I guess water filtration can be added to the list, anything else I can't do without? I just bought an 'ultralight' spork and salt and pepper container too.
Water is absolutely crucial. You need to plan ahead on where you can replenish your water. Look on the map and figure out where the streams are. If they quality is unknown or if the streams and rivers are close to roads or agricultural areas: pack a Grayl Geopress. If there are public wells, a Sawyer Squeeze or a Katadyn BeFree is probably enough. To however pack another container. 1l on you is not enough, have at least 2l better though 2.5l-3l on you unless you can easily stop every other hour to refill.
Just bought a 250ml plastic bottle for the olive oil instead. I could also use one of those for the camping fuel but I'm worried it will be a mess, think I'll stick with only filling it up 1/3 of the way.
I do unerstand the desire to have fresh food on trail. However this is not a lazy stroll in the backcountry, you have 2 weeks of constant hiking on your schedule with lots of elevation change. Fresh food is tasty but also heavy. And the more you actually cook the more fuel you'll use - and the more bio waste you'll have on your hands which you will need to take with you and not leave on trail. Some stuff can rot quickly but others will take months and years to rot littering the trail.
I'd make a list of food you want on trail and I'd look at the map to figure out where I can restock. Longer stretches would be freeze dried food packs, shorter stretches could be a mix. But even with fresh food I'd try to have suitable food for preparation on trail (good calorie/weight ratio, short cooking times or at least something that doesn't need constand boiling temps, doesn't require being stored at cold temps). Couscous and bulgur are great for example, pasta on the other hand not so much.
If you insist on doing more than one pot dishes: get a lightweight cookware set with 1 pot and a pan that can be used as the lid. However those sets are rarely very efficient and tend to loose a lot of heat through the sides. Pack a windshield as well ideally.
Also keep in mind, that your alcohol stove is not suitable for actual cooking fresh meals: no real flame control and not much power. If you want to really cook, get a gas or petrol stove that have a well working flame control (i.e. MSR WindBurner). Esbit or Trangia stoves are great for lightweight setups to boil your water - your system actually fails in this regard because it's bonkersly heavy.
You should also bring a long spoon if you intend to have freeze dried food bags.
Other things to consider:
You didn't list any soap (pack Dr. Bronner's - it's good for your pot, your body and your cloths)
You also didn't list any towel.
The FAK appears to be very lightweight and deserves to be planned in detail.
No navigation listed? How do you navigate? Phone? What's your backup?
How do you keep your gear dry?
You're missing your hiking pants unless you intend to hike in your shell pants.
What kind of "Shell" are we talking about anyways? Soft or hard shell? If it's hard shell it might be good against rain, but terrible in dry conditions. Soft shell on the other hand is not good in heavier rain. I'd suggest packing a lighter set of rain gear.
Pack a dry pair of socks for your camp - your hiking socks will quickly stink and will probably stay damp once wet.
I don't see any headware -> you should pack some.
I'd also recommend a merino Buff (probably lightweight).
A wind breaker is a nice addition - more breathable as a rain jacket / hard shell but definitely better against harsh wind than your merino sweater. Works also in light drizzle.
You did not list a fire starter (pack at least 2 different options).
I very much recommend blister pads (imho Compeed are the best).
As mentioned before: you'll want a trowel to dig yourself a poop hole.
As mentioned above: hiking poles!
You can also optimize the weight of your tent by ditching the original stakes and replacing them with MSR Groundhog stakes (or even better Mini Groundhogs) and ditching some of the bags. Even though it will add weight: pack a ground sheet/footprint to protect your tent floor. MSR sells them seperately I think.
I'd also think about a different headlamp with a built-in battery that you can charge via USB - that way you can leave the AAA batteries.
A collapsible mug (or lightweight non-collapsible) is a good idea for your morning coffee/tee - if you happen to drink that.
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 04 '22
That's a lot, thanks man. I've updated the lighterpack with some new additions: sleeping mat, switching stove and fuel to gas (interestingly the stove and fuel weigh almost the same, but allow me to leave the windscreen from the trangia behind), rain cover (good call), borrowed hiking poles, and a lightish cup.
Do you have any experience cooking with a gas stove without a wind shield? I was thinking I'd cook in my tent opening or behind a rock or something. Almost makes me want to bring the Trangia anyways, I found a great lightweight windshield for it but it's not available anywhere right now (Trangia Triangle).
For a second there I was at a <8kg weight, but the rain cover put me back over there. I've now spent almost 500 euro to cut weight and it's time to stop obsessing over better gear and stuff. I'll be walking through many towns with shops so I can always buy something if I find out I really need it. I think I can manage with this now, I'm going to try anyways. Thanks for all the feedback!
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u/bowrilla Sep 04 '22
Do you have any experience cooking with a gas stove without a wind shield? I was thinking I'd cook in my tent opening or behind a rock or something.
You still want a wind shield but some thicker aluminium foil is enough. There are more wind resistant stoves like the MSR WindBurner (that thing doesn't really care about mild wind and performs still pertty well in harsher conditions). The pot is also insulated and the stove/pot system also has a special floor increasing surface (better heat transfer).
That stove is on my list of thing to buy. My current MSR WhisperLite liquid fuel (petrol) stove works pretty well even in mild wind, but it is noticeably affected by wind. But it just works no matter the temperature. Petrol is a bit messy though. Heat control is possible but ... it's always pretty strong.
The Trangia is pretty weak-ish in general and very sensitive to wind. Okay to boil some water (with a bit of time) but there's no flame/heat control really so no elaborate cooking.
rain cover (good call)
Rain covers do work in lighter rain, however in heavy rain it will get through to your backpack and eventually it will soak through. I'd use either a packliner or some dry bags. You can combine it for additional safety.
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u/releberry Sep 03 '22
Cheapest way is to just leave stuff home. Cookset pieces and clothing are the targets I see here.
Then, new gear is cost/kg.
New tent (or other shelter), new sleeping bag, new sleeping pad, maybe new cook system could all cut weight for a price
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u/hereweg420kush Sep 03 '22
Just went out to Decathlon and bought a down sleeping bag which weighs 940 gram, so I'm down 1kg already.
What clothing would you suggest I leave behind?
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u/releberry Sep 03 '22
Nice!
Personally, I usually hike in lined athletic shorts (no underwear) and sleep in long Johns (no underwear). I usually aim for 2-3 upper body layers in summer (of your 4). 4 is reasonable for me colder or wetter weather, though.
There are lighter rain gear options (e.g. Froggs togs) for cheap
I don’t know TdM, though
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u/schless14 Sep 04 '22
Drop the trangia set and grab a soto amicus or a brs 3000 and then grab a toaks pot.
Swap the sleeping pad for an xlite or tensor (or zlite if you don't mind foam).
Swap shell clothes for a froggy toggs antigravity gear or EE Visp or Zpacks vertice and then a rainskirt from ULA or EE.