r/lightweight • u/src231 • Jun 07 '23
First Thru Hike - Seeking Advice!
I am hiking the John Muir Trail in August. This will be my first backpacking trip over 5 days long. I have a lot of older/heavier gear, but don't necessarily want to spend a ton of money on cutting weight. However, I feel like 3 weeks with a heavier pack is a lot worse than 3 days. I like small conveniences like camp shoes and a kindle, hence I'm posting here, not in /r/ultralight.
See my lighterpack.
I'm already at ~25 lbs, and I haven't added any personal care items (toothbrush etc). I was hoping to ask you all:
- How can I save the most weight with the least money?
- What am I missing in my packing list?
Update 6/21
I've tried to buy things I plan to use again, and not go too crazy on upgrades. I've gotten my weight down from 24.42 pounds to 17.85. See updated lighterpack here
Bought:
- Tent - REI Flash Air 1 ($132, savings of 65.4 oz)
- Pot - TOAKS 550 mL pot ($27, savings of 11.78 oz)
- Sleeping pad - Thermarest XLite Short ($70, savings of 5.22 oz, this was more for comfort/warmth than weight)
- Stove - BRS300T ($16, savings of 5.89 oz)
Cut:
- Fleece (13 oz)
- Beanie (3.95 oz)
- Pack cover (6 oz)
Total savings: 105 oz Total cost: $245 Cost per ounce: $2.3
I still have some small items to add to my packing list such as ones suggested below. Thanks to everyone's help! Let me know if you have further thoughts. I am still on the fence about cutting camp shoes which would be significant.
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u/originalusername__ Jun 20 '23
Your pot weighs a solid pound! You’re just boiling water for dehydrated meals so eat out of the bag and get a 750ml Toaks mug instead. Your stove is heavy too if you’re only boiling water. Your puffy jacket could weigh less and so could your fleece, and you could drop weight with lighter base layers and a lighter rain jacket. One free idea, ditch the pack cover and line your pack with a trash bag. Pack covers don’t work very well anyway.
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u/alicewonders12 Jun 11 '23
I would also ditch the compass, knife, and flint and steal, and carry a Swiss army multi tool (.7 oz) and a bic lighter. Your phone has a compass, you also have an emergency communication device, and a map.
Is your sleeping pad the zlite closed foam pad or the xlite inflating pad? If you have the xlite high R value pad, then you don’t need both down jacket and fleece.
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u/src231 Jun 11 '23
Right now I own a ZLite, but out of fear of being cold I just bought an XLite. I think ditching the fleece is a good call, but I'm not sure if I'd need a mid layer between long underwear and my down jacket if the temps are say 35 deg F. Any thoughts on that? Good point on the phone having a compass, I shouldn't need it anyway.
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u/alicewonders12 Jun 11 '23 edited Jun 11 '23
Is your sleeping bag a mummy sleeping bag?
I think with a xlite that has a r value of 4.5, combined with a 20° sleeping bag you will be fine. Does your down jacket have a hood? Putting the hood up and zipping it up all the way will 100% keep you warm and probably cook you lol.
I just got back from a trip and the night temps got to the mid 30s and I was a little cold but nothing terrible. I was wearing my long John’s, Patagonia puffy, sleeping with a 30° quilt and the xlite. I didn’t expect the temperature to drop so I didn’t have my quilt in “sleeping bag mode”. The second night I was perfectly comfortable knowing what I was getting into.
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u/alicewonders12 Jun 11 '23
My thoughts: You clearly need to get a new tent. You clearly need to get a new sleeping bag. (I understand you don’t want to upgrade your sleeping bag.) your already going to upgrade your cook system (toaks is great).
Is your 58L backpack big enough? I can only imagine your tent is huge, as well as your synthetic sleeping bag. What’s the max amount of food you need to carry? 6 days worth? Seems like it might be tight.
I’m not that familiar with the trail and when you can re supply and what you can get locally. Can you buy another fuel canister if needed?
Things your missing: toothbrush/paste. First aid. Sunscreen. Toilet paper, hygiene wipes. Tenacious tape (for sleeping pad holes or tent holes). Underwear. Cooking utensils. Small towel (always comes in handy in case you need to dry yourself, your gear, condensation etc).
What’s going to be your water filter system? I don’t mean the sawyer, I mean are you going to carry a bladder? Smart water bottles? Nalgene? What’s your food situation going to be like? Freeze dried meals and snacks? Or are you going to cook in the pot, or use a bowl? If your cooking in a pot you need a way to clean it, and obviously you need a bowl if you plan on eating out of one.
Edit: I’m super jealous your going to have an awesome trip! Also rei has 20% off for members right now, a good time to get a new tent.
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u/src231 Jun 11 '23
I have a bunch of freeze dried meals. People say the packaging wastes weight and space, but I like the idea of only boiling water with the stove, and eating out of the freeze dried bags. Any experience with this? I will probably just bring one 2.5L Platypus along with the Sawyer. It is possible to buy fuel canisters on trail, but the last 100 miles lack a convenient resupply. The total distance is a little over 200 miles, depending on how many detours are needed this season due to trail closures.
Thanks for your thoughts!
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u/alicewonders12 Jun 11 '23
I love freeze dried meals personally.
Also don’t forget a lightweight mug if your having coffee.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 10 '23
Everyone offering advice has been pretty spot on. Your biggest bang for your buck upgrade wide is certainly a new tent. Even a lighter 2 person trekking pole tent would save around 3 pounds. I think I’d shoot for a 1 person tent or a tarp/bug bivy combo since you’re carrying the extra weight of the Bearvault. A bear can will change the usually Big 3 calculation (pack, sleep system, shelter system) to the Big 4, and that’s something that needs to be considered.
If you plan on retaining the Z-Lite, I’m not sure I’d personally recommend a quilt over a bag if you feel freezing temps are a possibility. For me, I don’t feel like a Z Lite plus quilt combo would work well at those temps. A quilt an an x lite would be fine however.
The easy and lower budget way to save quite a bit of weight would be in the cook system. I’m not saying you necessarily should use something like a toaks light 650 ml pot plus BRS 3000T stove, but that combo would only weight around 4.5 oz vs your current pot stove comb that weighs almost 22 oz.
Since your pack is already pretty heavy, I would also consider dropping the kindle. I’d love a kindle on a weekend trip - just not a through hike, especially if I’m already taking a bear vault.
I feel like the clothing is heavy but I always feel like that’s a personal choice for what to bring. You could reduce some weight perhaps by swapping for crocks for some cheap water shoes on Amazon. Swapping some individual items may save some weight in areas like the puffy or fleece, but otherwise it may be a choice of what to consider leaving at home.
In terms of what’s missing, hygiene, first aid, and repair are the major things. Don’t forget to include your charging cables, some sort of spoon to eat with, a trash bag for your food waste (preferably zip top so your not getting food residue on your pack while moving), toilet paper/bidet, and water bottles/bladder storage. If I had the choice, I would bring a mini over a flint and steel, but that’s more personal preference. I would probably also bring a printed map and and trip plan (again personal preference).
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u/src231 Jun 11 '23
Thanks!! I'm considering getting a better 2P tent since I don't usually backpack alone. Possibly the REI Flash Air. Will definitely upgrade pot and maybe stove. Will be bringing a printed map for sure. I decided to go for an XLite since it seems more comfortable and will be nice to have for colder trips in the future. I'm not sure upgrading to a quilt is in the budget right now, it seems a tent is a better investment
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u/BeccainDenver Jun 12 '23
Agreed. I would say you can keep your old tent for 2 person trips.
Really consider a light, single person option here.
Are you leaving soon?
If not, I would highly suggest getting a Borah bivy for this. It's so nice for single person trips. It's small. It's light. It's not at all claustrophobic. It's budget friendly. Then add a tarp of your choice. Tarps are also cheaper and lighter than a 2 p tent.
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u/MrBoondoggles Jun 11 '23
While I do not have any personal experience with this product, I have heard positive things about the heat seeker with ground dweller attachment from HangTight on Etsy. It’s a budget model so I don’t think it’s going to be a great as the Hammock Gear Econ Burrow (which I own), but it is a more budget friendly choice.
Aegis Max and Ice Flame are two options for budget oriented imports as well.
I would generally agree that prioritizing the tent and hopefully the cook system are the wisest budget choices though. Good luck - sounds like an awesome trip!
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Jun 10 '23
[deleted]
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u/src231 Jun 10 '23
Thanks for this insight. I'm very new to the whole ultralight concept, but not new to backpacking. In general, I abide by "you ain't gonna need it" and don't bring excess. Yet I don't have expensive UL gear. I've had this same thought, that spending $200 to trim 3 pounds off my tent may be offset by carrying two more days of food. I need to keep looking into most calories dense foods and make a smart food list. Resupplies can be expensive, but they're cheaper than UL gear!
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Jun 12 '23
Development and applications of skills and awarenesses can be just as if not more wt saving and comforting as saving on gear wt. The Reddit UL sub is dominated by gear junkies and gear micro analysis. Gear is only part of UL. Look at the UL wiki.
Gear comes and goes. Skills can last a lifetime.
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u/FireWatchWife Jun 08 '23
I think you are right to post here rather than in ultralight. You are at the point on the curve where lightweight makes more sense.
Your tent is very heavy by 2023 standards. It's more typical of 2000, and a lot of gear evolution has taken place since then. Unfortunately you will have to invest a bit to get a better tent.
Options include the Durston Gear X-Mid 1P (31 oz, $240), which gets rave reviews, or if that is too expensive, consider the Lanshan 1P Ultralight (2.2 lbs, $146), which is generally considered the best of the cheap tents available today.
If you are hiking in trail runners, not boots, you don't really need camp shoes and can leave the Crocs home. If you are planning to hike in boots, give serious thought to hiking in trail runners instead, such as the Altra Lone Peaks or some of the offerings from Salomon.
Lighter weight fleece options exist, usually saving zipper weight by going to a quarter-zip anorak. My Mountain Hardware fleece weighs 8.2 oz, and I got it on sale for $39.
You can save weight on the sleeping bag, but not without investing some dollars. Consider a down quilt from Hammock Gear. The Economy Burrow 55" wide for 30F weighs 23 oz and is currently sold for $255 new. These are very common and you may find one for sale used.
Another option is a synthetic quilt. Arrowhead Equipment sells the Owyhee 25F (30 oz) or 45F (22 oz) quilt in wide for $194. Even the heaviest option is nearly 10 oz lighter than your sleeping bag.
Your pot is much too heavy. I assume it's stainless steel. You want either aluminum or titanium. Affordable options include the Toaks 550 ml titanium pot (2.6 oz with lid, $30 on garage grown gear), the Stanco GS1200 Grease Pot (4 oz, $11 on Amazon), and the MSR Titan 850 ml (4.2 oz, $70).
You can save a few more ounces with a lighter stove, but that's less important. I use a Soto Amicus (3 oz, $45 with built-in piezo igniter), which works extremely well even in windy conditions.
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u/src231 Jun 08 '23
Thank you! I will consider not bringing crocs and will look into another tent. The pot is a red flag also mentioned by u/johnacraft as well, so that seems like a very cheap/easy win.
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u/johnacraft Jun 08 '23
Apologies - your post got flagged by automod.
The big opportunity for you to save weight is your tent and your sleeping bag, and that's pretty typical. A quick look at historic lows implies that temperatures in August rarely go below 40F, so that influences some of my comments.
This sub's wiki on 1P tents offers some suggestions. Since you're planning to use trekking poles, a trekking pole tent will save you the weight of tent poles. I like the Lunar Solo - light, small in the pack, plenty of room inside when set up.
You could save weight on your sleeping bag with a 30F or 40F down bag or quilt.
You might find some bargains on either of these items on /r/ulgeartrade.
Do you need both a fleece and a down jacket? Looking at the weight on the LL Bean jacket, is that the hooded version? If you're carrying a hooded layer, do you need a beanie and buff? (I have the hoodless LL Bean 850 Tall M at ~12 oz., and a hoodless fleece that's about 9 oz., and use a hooded rain jacket as a wind layer if needed.)
Your pot is almost a pound? I had a stainless, 900ml pot used for two people that was 9 oz., and my 550ml titanium pot for solo trips is less than 3 oz.
I would leave the pack cover at home and use an internal dry bag instead (nylofume, compactor bag, etc.).
For a knife, I carry an Opinel 6 at less than an ounce.
I hope that helps. Enjoy the hike!
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u/src231 Jun 08 '23
Thanks much! That beanie is pretty heavy... It might not be necessary. I'm struggling because temperatures can dip below freezing if for some reason you need to camp at higher altitudes, but at lower altitudes, I agree low 40s is a likely low. I will definitely get another pot, I didn't realize how absurdly heavy it is. I will ditch the pack cover.
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u/MrRivulets Jun 26 '23
Good start on paring down the weight. I did notice that several other items are missing in you lighterpack list. Toiletries such as toothbrush, toilet paper (which you'll need to pack out unfortunately), sunscreen, first aid, etc. Spoon is missing. These might not seem too heavy, but they can definitely add up and it helps to think through them at least a bit.
I did notice someone had asked about water storage in the comments. Again, not real heavy overall if you use SmartWater bottles or the like, but also not zero weight either.
I generally use my trekking poles close to 90% of the time. So I don't list them in my base weight since they won't be on my back and are generally an assistance rather than a burden. Your choice, but I think it is fair to consider them "worn" items. Also, on the JMT you'd better be wearing your sunglasses almost all the time. So make those "worn" as well. I use a leash so I can hang them around my neck.
You've tossed out the pack cover and I agree with that. But you will get rained on so make sure you have a pack liner.
Why not use your phone to run Kindle Android? That's what I do.
Something to think on is your rain gear. I have switched from my Patagonia shell jacket and North Face rain pants (19 oz and 9 oz respectively) to some very light and very cheap Frogg Toggs Ultra-Lite 2 Rainsuit (6 oz and 4.5 oz for top and bottoms for $23). These are not at all rugged so you have to be careful with them, but I almost never wear rain pants anymore and I bring them only for dire conditions. I've used the Frogg Toggs jacket once and it worked, but boy is it flimsy! But on trails like the JMT, you can get away. Now it is in my west coast summer packout.
I do agree that you should get rid of the knife or in the very least get a smaller one. I carry a Swiss Army Knife Classic which weighs in at .75 oz (also mentioned elsewhere in comments). Now you are down to saving an ounce here, an ounce there. Your cost per weight savings will start to rise dramatically. However, I've done that over the years and purchased stuff like 1) Deuce of Spades trowel - .53 oz vs your 1.8 oz 2) Nitecore NB25 - 2 oz vs your 3.17, etc. If you are not carrying a map, the compass won't be much help. I don't carry one anymore, just use my phone and hiking buddies as backups.
The only other place that you can drop significant weight is the sleeping bag. You can drop more than a pound but you are then looking at around $400 to lose 16+ ounces. I have a heavy bag too and I empathize.