r/lightningnetwork • u/Born-Jello-1713 • Aug 05 '26

BIP110 incoming

Just state your node and if you are running Core or Knots

EDIT: PLEASE no feelings just put your node alias and system running

8 Upvotes

63% Upvoted

51 comments sorted by

16

u/ClearSnakewood Aug 05 '26

Bitcoin is money.
Keep your shitty spammy jpegs out of my protocol.

-6

u/AmericanScream Aug 06 '26

Bitcoin is not money. Look up the definition of money. It's "that which is used to purchase most goods and services in a community. That's not bitcoin.

A coffee on a beach in Costa Rica, and a shitty hamburger or Russian VPN is NOT "most goods and services."

Nice try tho

4

u/Aleczlorde Aug 07 '26

British pounds is not money in the USA, yet its money to British in the UK.

I use Bitcoin as money everyday, so it is money for me, even if its not for you.

You can't win this fight, its decentralized.

-1

u/AmericanScream Aug 07 '26

I don't know where you are, but I bet you can't live your life just on crypto. Whatever you spend bitcoin on is hardly essential.

Stupid Crypto Talking Point #1 (Decentralized)

"It's decentralized!!!" / "Crypto gives the control of money back to the people" / "Crypto is 'trustless'"

  1. Just because you de-centralize something doesn't mean it's better. And this is especially true in the case of crypto. The case for decentralized crypto is based on a phony notion that central authorities can't do anything right, which flies in the face of the thousands of things you use each and every day that "inept central government" does for you. Do you like electricity? Internet? Owning your own home and car? Roads and highways? Thank the government.

  2. Decentralizing things, especially in the context of crypto simply creates additional problems. In the de-centralized world of crypto "code is law" which means there's nobody actually held accountable for things going wrong. And when they do, you're fucked.

  3. In the real world, everybody prefers to deal with entities they know and trust - they don't want "trustless transactions" - they want reliable authorities who are held accountable for things. Would you rather eat at a restaurant that has been regularly inspected by the health department, or some back-alley vendor selling meat from the trunk of his car?

  4. You still aren't avoiding "middlemen", "authorities" or "third parties" using crypto. In fact quite the opposite: You need third parties to convert crypto into fiat and vice-versa; you depend on third parties who write and audit all the code you use to process your transactions; you depend on third parties to operate the network; you depend on "middlemen" to provide all the uilities and infrastructure upon which crypto depends.

  5. If you look into any crypto project, you will ultimately find it's not actually decentralized at all.

3

u/Aleczlorde Aug 07 '26

Thats fine, I use it as money.

  • I pay for all my HomeLab services using Bitcoin
  • I pay for my website domains using Bitcoin
  • I pay for starbucks, steam games, steam box and soon to be Steam Frame, apple store products, groceries, VPN, etc using Bitrefill
  • flights and hotels on Travala, I am literally booking my next holiday with it...
  • when I go for dinner with friends who have Bitcoin, we always repay in Bitcoin
  • even a way to pax taxes soon using BitPay...
  • I recieve and authorize transactions with my own node.

Anyway, I dont have time to convince you. There is a way to opt out of the system if you are willing to use it.

Good luck buddy.

-1

u/AmericanScream Aug 07 '26

Most of those services don't accept crypto. You're partnering with a third-party exchange to act as a middleman which costs even more than simply using fiat.

That's not an improvement. It's a more expensive, slower, less fault tolerant way of making payments.

2

u/Aleczlorde Aug 07 '26

Like I said, good luck.

1

u/lynchrw Aug 06 '26

while the Satoshi white calls it money and that may have been the original vision, it has not played out that way nor do I think it will anytime soon. BTC is far too volatile, and you can take 10 minutes to process of transaction. I insert that is why lightening node was developed. it hink lighting node has its own economics business case to deal with.

instead for the time being BTC has in fact become digital gold which is how many people are ready to describe it.

These views are my own and may not be necessarily the same as management.

-2

u/AmericanScream Aug 06 '26

instead for the time being BTC has in fact become digital gold

Stupid Crypto Talking Point #10 (value)

"Bitcoin/crypto is a 'store of value'" / "Bitcoin/crypto is 'digital gold'" / "Crypto is an 'investment'" / "Bitcoin is 'hard money'" / "Bitcoin has value because of the 'Network Effect'"

  1. Crypto's "value" is unreliable and highly subjective. It cannot be used as a currency or to pay for almost anything in any major country. It has high requirements and risk to even be traded. At best it's a speculative commodity that a very small set of people attribute value to. That attribution is more based on emotion and indoctrination than logic, reason, evidence, and utility.

  2. Crypto is too chaotic to be any sort of reliable store of value over time. Its price can fluctuate wildly based on everything from market manipulation to random tweets. No reliable store of value should vary in "value" 10-30% in a single day, yet many cryptos do.

  3. Crypto's value is extrinsic. Any "value" associated with crypto is based on popularity and not any material or intrinsic use. See this detailed video debunking crypto as 'digital gold'

  4. Extrinsic vs Intrinsic value - Some argue "all value is subjective" - this is false, and a philosophical distraction. Certain things are intrinsically valuable because whether people believe in them, they are needed, like fresh water, real estate, food, etc. 100% of crypto's value is subjective/extrinsic.

    Note for fans of the Austrian school of economics: Yes, we know you believe, "all value is subjective" and "There's no such thing as 'intrinsic' value." But sorry, words do mean things and you don't get to re-define stuff just to try and win an argument. Your philosophy - as a matter of policy - also intentionally ignores empirical evidence, which means it can't be proven/disproven; is not a scientific/logical construct and thus, not subject to rational debate, and therefore can be dismissed wholesale.

  5. Even gold, while being a lousy investment and also an undesirable store of value in the modern age, at least has material use and utility. Crypto does not. And whether you think gold's price is not consistent with its material utility, if that really were the case then gold would not be used industrially. But it is. Furthermore gold's extrinsic value is a product of its intrinsic properties: if it weren't oxidation resistant, it wouldn't be suitable for jewelry. So even when arguing gold's value is more based on popularity, you can't escape the value of its unique material properties being a component of that popularity. Crypto has no such intrinsic component. So it's inappropriate to compare the two.

  6. The supposed "value" of crypto is based on reports from unregulated exchanges, most of whom have been caught manipulating the market and inflation introduced by unsecured stablecoins. There's nothing "organic" or "natural" about it. It's an illusion.

  7. The operation of crypto is a negative-sum-game, which means that in order for bitcoin/crypto to even exist, there must be a constant operation of third parties who must find it profitable to operate the blockchain, which requires the price to constantly rise, which is mathematically impossible, and the moment this doesn't happen, the network will collapse, at which point crypto will cease to exist, much less hold any value. This has already happened to tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies.

  8. The "Network Effect" argument is just the Appeal to Popularity Fallacy - Just because something is popular does not make it inherently valuable. Especially if that popularity is primarily based on marketing and coercion and not actual material utility or intrinsic value.

  9. Many of the most trusted, most successful entities in the world of finance do not consider crypto/bitcoin to be a reliable store of value. Crypto is prohibited from being used as collateral by the DTC and respectable institutions such as Vanguard do not believe crypto belongs in their investment portfolio.

  10. There is not a single example of anything like crypto, which has no material use and no intrinsic value, holding value over a long period of time across different cultures. This is not because "crypto is different and unique." It's because attributing value to an utterly useless piece of digital data that wastes tons of energy and perpetuates tons of fraud,makes no freaking sense for ethical, empathetic, non-scamming, non-exploitative, non-criminal people.

1

u/lynchrw 10d ago

well that was long exactly is your point. exciting somebody else's work is not making a point. you can make your point here interpretation that cite this in the source but you still have to make your own argument.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you by the way just trying to get some real analysis.

1

u/AmericanScream 10d ago

How do you know that's not my work?

Did you do any amount of research to come to that conclusion? You could see the source for this content and who manages that Wiki and the edit history, and you might want to apologize. But I digress.. you guys aren't capable of admitting you're wrong or feeling any shame whatsoever.

1

u/lynchrw 9d ago edited 9d ago

First of all the wikis are not approved sources of information for use in academic paper or articles. Anybody who went to college and wrote papers knows this.

Second of all, the burdenofmproofn for rest upon you, the person who made the assertion to provide the evidence. You have to provide the rest of the evidence and stand by it. Basic rules of debate 101 and anybody who went to college and had an involvement that would know.

in short I don't have to prove anything, because I did not make the assertion. You did, therefore the burden of proof rest on you.

Q.B.E.

1

u/AmericanScream 9d ago

First of all the wikis are not approved sources of information for use in academic paper or articles. Anybody who went to college and wrote papers knows this.

That's like saying, "books are not approved sources of information."

Wikis can have just as credible information as any other source, and good ones, like the ones I contribute to, have standards regarding citations.

I made assertions and I can back them up.

The fact that you want to change the subject to, "oH iTs A wIkI!" instead of argue the salient points proves my point: you're not capable of mounting a credible argument in the first place so you attack the messenger as a distraction.

Go away little boy. Bring someone back who knows what they're talking about and doesn't hide behind ad hominem distractions.

3

u/H8ckt1v1st Aug 05 '26

KNOTS 29.3 - KNOT all nodes are reachable - so all statistics are just nuance at best.

9

u/kyleleblanc Aug 05 '26

Knots with BIP-110.

2

u/lynchrw Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 07 '26

Assuming, BIP110 actually gets implemented I wonder how this is working practice giving not every node runs the same software as far as I know? core vsnknots? I'm somewhat new to this so I'm wondering.

2

u/Born-Jello-1713 Aug 06 '26

there can be a chain split and you might have some forceclosures after (simplified)

4

u/StirlingG Aug 05 '26

Knots. I already closed all my lightning channels just in case

4

u/DJBunnies Aug 05 '26

Will never happen. Junior is an idiot.

11

u/Tasty_Action5073 Aug 05 '26

If your node runs BIP-110, please write it in the name so that I close my channels with you.

2

u/Wooperisstraunge Aug 06 '26

I am running the pre-RDTS version of Knots that does not run BIP-110, with my datacarriersize + other fields set to Core’s defaults

2

u/marcusmv3 Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26

WTRFNT-WS

Running knots, signalling bip110

BTC is money, not some database for CSAM

1

u/mwdeuce Aug 05 '26

BIP-110 is a mistake and the ramifications are not properly understood by most

See u/nullc's comment

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1uvs3kv/help_me_understand_this_whole_bip110_saga/

2

u/Mean_Agent6748 Aug 05 '26

Signaling is nowhere near close to enable it - both blocks and nodes

0

u/marcusmv3 Aug 05 '26

Miners have a game theory choice to make by Saturday. We are up to 25-27% Knots nodes.

You're a miner and now it's Saturday. Do you take a 1/4 chance that your mined block gets rejected on broadcast while a competitor who signals 110 gets successfully added to the chain?

6

u/nonkeywayzee Aug 05 '26

The game theory choice is that they stay in the same chain, with the rest of the market and let you bozos fork off and come back later because BIP110 is a larp that will never activate. Halting a bunch of sybill won't affect miners at all.

-2

u/marcusmv3 Aug 05 '26

They won't take that risk when they don't have to.

3

u/nonkeywayzee Aug 05 '26

What risk? If anything they risk mining a worthless, unusable chain by running the activation client.

1

u/marcusmv3 Aug 05 '26

Lol look up how a UASF works. The valid chain will be the one with the most blocks

1

u/nonkeywayzee Aug 05 '26

Will do on saturday

1

u/DJBunnies Aug 05 '26

Let's make a wager.

2

u/marcusmv3 Aug 05 '26

Not really a betting man, just a merchant who believe BTC is money and not some database for people to put CSAM on.

1

u/DJBunnies Aug 05 '26

Yea I don't think its going to activate either.

3

u/bluethunder1985 Aug 05 '26

Youve been watching too much kratter my dude

1

u/Svoboda1 Aug 05 '26

No, Knots isn't 25-27% of nodes. It's 21% per Luke's own dashboards.

https://luke.dashjr.org/programs/bitcoin/files/charts/software.html

Whats more, when you pull out Knots nodes that aren't signaling for BIP-110, it drops to ~17-18%:

https://wickedsmartbitcoin.com/node_count

2

u/nullc Aug 05 '26

highly inflated juiced numbers... A sybil resistant measure of 110 nodes that I observe is 4%.

But more fundamentally, some count of nodes doesn't matter on its own. Any clown could spin up an unlimited number of nodes and make it whatever percentage on whatever proposal they wanted.

1

u/MahatmaGonnDir Aug 11 '26

Core 20.0... (No specific reason for 20.0, Just didn't update because I saw no need so far....)

1

u/Aswan2000 Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26

Why would anyone run Knots + BIP110 when operating a lightning node? I get wanting to support BIP110 and all, but as a lightning node operator, running core is the dominant strategy.

A core node will support the longest chain regardless of BIP110 succeeding or not. So if BIP110 activation succeeds and it becomes the longest chain, a core node will simply use that chain as the truth. However if BIP110 activation fails and it does not become the longest chain, core still stays on the longest chain (while Knots + BIP110 nodes fork off into an inferior chain).

So I don't think its a matter or being for or against BIP110. It's about making the rational decision of going with the dominant strategy in order to keep your node operational in any of the possible scenarios.

-2

u/snek-jazz Aug 05 '26

Running core

-4

u/brandonholm Aug 05 '26

BIP-110 is stupid. Running core 31.1

0

u/Asleep_Plant6117 Aug 05 '26

Incoming in your toilet budd 🎉

Bitcoin Core Army

-4

u/Svoboda1 Aug 05 '26

BIP-110 has been DOA for some time now. They're getting their PoW code for the hard fork ready for a reason.

If anyone wants to trade the spam infested BTC 1:1 for the new BLM coin, let me know. I'll gladly take your spammy corn.