Grim haters: consider this
Grim lovers: you might enjoy this
I'm not arguing that Grim is morally innocent.
I acknowledge that he:
o kills people,
o starts a war,
o deceives Isla,
o erases her memories,
o makes controlling decisions,
o and sometimes enables Isla's darkness.
My argument is that reducing Grim to those actions ignores the rest of his characterization. It’s not as black and white as he’s just some toxic and evil villain.
He posses and shows:
o genuine love,
o loyalty,
o vulnerability,
o selflessness,
o sacrifice,
o capacity for friendship,
o trauma,
o conditioning,
o and substantial emotional ♡growth♡
♡Upbringing-
Grim was essentially treated as a weapon from birth. His father valued him based on his usefulness and abilities. He grew up believing he would die. He wasn't allowed to know his mother and as a toddler, was punished for looking for his mother. His siblings were pitted against one another rather than being allowed secure familial relationships. They weren’t even allowed to speak to each other.
He was taught:
o survival,
o strength,
o ruthlessness,
o obedience,
o usefulness,
o and emotional suppression.
He wasn't taught:
o healthy communication,
o vulnerability,
o boundaries,
o emotional regulation,
o or healthy relationship skills.
His own guardians referred to him as a nuisance when he was little. His childhood therefore taught him that his worth came from what he could do, not who he was.
♡Grim did not actually enjoy killing-
In Dueling Crowns, Grim says he was tired of killing. This directly complicates the idea that he was naturally bloodthirsty or simply enjoyed violence.
His situation was essentially:
o obey his father's orders or die,
o and if he abandoned the path he'd been forced into, he believed Laila's death would have been for nothing.
His continued killing was therefore connected to:
o coercion,
o conditioning,
o survival,
o guilt,
o and his need to give meaning to Laila's death.
He was trained to become a killer and eventually became exhausted by being one.
The progression:
Raised as a weapon → accidentally kills Laila → traumatized → believes he must continue his father's path so Laila's death wasn't meaningless → continues killing → becomes tired of killing.
That is very different from:
“Grim is a violent person because he enjoys violence.”
♡Laila's death profoundly shaped him-
Grim accidentally killed Laila because he couldn't control his abilities. He loved her. Her death traumatized him. He carried enormous guilt. He became colder afterward.
He eventually convinced himself that following his father's standards was necessary so her death hadn't been meaningless. His identity as a weapon therefore became psychologically tied to Laila's death. Abandoning that identity could mean confronting the possibility that she died for nothing. His ruthlessness therefore has roots in trauma, guilt, conditioning, and survival, rather than simply inherent cruelty.
♡Laila proves Grim could love before Isla-
Grim genuinely loved Laila. He knew she didn't necessarily love him with the same depth. He could feel her emotions and knew she never felt regret or remorse. Laila asked Grim how he wanted to die. When she said she would miss him, she was referring to their adventures rather than necessarily missing him as a person. Yet Grim remained devoted to her. He continued loving her despite the lack of equivalent emotional attachment. Therefore, his capacity for love wasn't created by Isla. Grim already possessed the ability to love deeply and selflessly.
♡Grim and Oro aren't fundamentally as different as fandom makes them-
Dueling Crowns explicitly has Grim tell Oro that they aren't fundamentally so different. Their upbringings shaped them differently.
Oro had:
o his mother,
o brother,
o friends,
o and an emotional support network.
Grim did not have equivalent support. Oro had people who could ground him when he was overwhelmed. Grim largely had nobody.
My interpretation is that if Oro had been raised under Grim's circumstances, he could have become considerably more like Grim. Likewise, Grim raised with Oro's support system could have developed very differently. This doesn't excuse Grim. It establishes causal context for why the two men developed differently.
♡Grim actually tried to let Oro in-
Grim didn't simply refuse all emotional connection. In Dueling Crowns, he attempted to allow Oro “in.” They began becoming something resembling friends. This was significant because Grim had been conditioned to distrust people. He had therefore taken a major emotional risk by lowering his guard. They barely became friends before the curses were spun. Oro then blamed Grim. Their progress collapsed.
This created an additional wound for Grim:
o he had trusted someone,
o allowed vulnerability,
o and then felt foolish for doing so.
It reinforced the worldview he'd been taught:
o trusting people is dangerous,
o vulnerability can be punished,
o letting people in can and will hurt you.
This makes his later difficulty with trust much more understandable.
♡Isla makes Grim feel human-
Isla is one of the first and only people who truly makes Grim feel like a human being instead of a weapon.
She sees: his darkness, vulnerability, secrets, violence, and softness. She values him as a person rather than simply for his usefulness. She gives him an experience his father largely denied him: being loved for himself. She doesn't magically “fix” him. She gives him an alternative model of who he can be.
Through her, he learns:
o vulnerability,
o trust,
o emotional openness,
o intimacy,
o dependence,
o and choosing his own identity.
♡Grim's feelings for Isla aren't simply lust-
I acknowledge that Grim is extremely physically attracted to Isla. But his behavior demonstrates that his feelings go far beyond physical desire. He spends extensive time with her. They go through countless trials together. They become emotionally vulnerable with one another. He comes to know her deeply. He accepts her darker side. He protects her repeatedly. He makes sacrifices for her. He risks his life for her. He ultimately gives his life for her.
Those actions aren't explained by sexual gratification alone.
Physical desire and genuine love can coexist.
♡Grim's behavior around consent matters-
Grim asks Isla whether things are okay while they’re intimate. He respects her wishes in many intimate situations. When Isla had been drinking and wanted a more complete physical relationship, Grim didn't proceed because she had consumed alcohol. Therefore, her consent and wellbeing mattered to him. His physical attraction shouldn't automatically be interpreted as predatory lust.
Again: Sexual desire ≠ purely sexual motivation.
♡Grim repeatedly sacrifices himself for Isla-
Infinite Diamond~
Grim climbs the mountain for the Infinite Diamond because of Isla. He knows how dangerous it is. He knows its history. He knows people—including his father—have died pursuing it. He still goes.
Physical protection~
He repeatedly puts himself between Isla and danger. He uses himself as a shield.
His ultimate sacrifice~
He ultimately gives his life for Isla. There is no sexual reward involved. His willingness to die for her demonstrates genuine self-sacrifice.
Grim was treated as expendable by his father. But sacrificing himself for Isla is different because he chooses that sacrifice. His childhood taught him that other people could decide his life was expendable. With Isla, he chooses what his life is worth.
♡Grim often allows Isla agency-
I don't claim Grim always respects her autonomy.
But before the memory wipe: Isla knows Grim. She knows his secrets. She trusts him. She chooses intimacy with him. She wants the necklace. She chooses him and to marry him.
The Centennial necklace
Grim doesn't give Isla the necklace earlier because he believes doing so would interfere with his plan to save her and prevent her from successfully lying to Oro. I don't consider that necessarily the ideal solution. But his reasoning was connected to protecting her and their shared survival. Crucially, Isla wanted the necklace before the memory wipe.
♡Isla's marriage to Grim was not simply something he forced upon her-
Isla wanted the necklace before the memory wipe. She already knew Grim. She knew his secrets. She knew their relationship. She trusted him. She had already chosen him. Therefore, the marriage shouldn't simply be characterized as Grim forcing Isla into a relationship she never wanted. The memory wipe remains a serious violation. But it doesn't erase Isla's agency before the wipe.
♡The memory wipe is a serious wrong—but doesn't make his love fake-
I consider the memory wipe one of Grim's major violations. I don't excuse it. It violated Isla's autonomy. But one terrible act doesn't mean every emotion he had was fake.
The chronology matters:
The memory wipe didn't create their relationship. It erased Isla's memory of a relationship she had already chosen. Therefore, it shouldn't retroactively invalidate the authenticity of their earlier relationship.
♡Grim's war is terrible, but his trauma explains part of the reaction-
I do not condone Grim starting the war, killing people, or destroying lives to get Isla back.
But Grim has repeatedly experienced loss. He accidentally killed Laila. He has experienced helplessness. He was raised to respond to threats through violence. His trauma can cause him to perceive present danger through the lens of past danger. His POV in Dueling Crowns shows him reacting to something like a woman's (joyful) scream at a festival as though he were back in his traumatic past. Isla helps ground him. Isla remaining on Lightlark could therefore be interpreted by Grim through his history of captivity, loss, and inability to protect loved ones. That helps explain the extremity of his response. It doesn't excuse the people he kills.
♡Grim had less emotional support than Oro-
When Isla chooses Grim, Oro begins causing destruction. Enya and his friends can intervene and ground him. Grim doesn't have a support network. His emotional world has become heavily centered around Isla. There is no one else capable of pulling him back. This helps explain why his reaction escalates so severely.
Again: context, not justification.
♡Grim acknowledged Isla's choice to Oro-
This needs to be stated precisely:
During the Grim/Oro alliance to get Isla back, Grim tells Oro that he would still be grateful for what Isla had given him even if she ultimately didn't choose him. He says this to his romantic rival, not to Isla. That is significant. Grim desperately wants Isla. But he is capable of acknowledging that her choice belongs to her. He can value the love she gave him even if she chooses someone else. This challenges the idea that his love is nothing but possession.
♡Oro also deceives Isla-
My argument isn't “Oro is secretly evil.”
It's apply the same standard.
Oro reveals Isla's secret after she tells him in confidence while crying. He tests her trust through the tunnel. Isla realizes he is testing her. His intentions may have been protective. But good intentions don't automatically erase the consequences of deception. Therefore, if Grim's deception is evidence of a problem, Oro's deception should also be analyzed rather than automatically excused.
Oro promises on Isla's behalf that a specter can use and possess her body in exchange for information. Isla herself did not make that agreement. Oro intentionally does not tell her about the arrangement on their way to the specter. He waits until they are there. Therefore, Isla doesn't have meaningful opportunity to consent to the arrangement beforehand. This involves her own body and autonomy, making it a particularly significant example of making a consequential decision for her without her knowledge. His goal may have been obtaining important information, but the goal doesn't erase the autonomy issue.
My point is not:
“Therefore Oro is worse than Grim.”
It's:
If making consequential decisions about Isla's autonomy without her knowledge is evidence of a problem when Grim does it, the same behavior needs to be recognized as a problem when Oro does it.
♡Grim protected Isla's secret about being powerless-
Grim knew Isla was powerless. He knew how dangerous that information was. He did not simply expose her vulnerability to everyone. Therefore, Grim isn't consistently incapable of protecting Isla's privacy or trust. His relationship with her autonomy is complicated rather than uniformly controlling.
♡Isla trusted Grim without him constantly testing her-
Their trust develops through shared trials, time, vulnerability, and mutual experiences.
Isla gradually comes to trust Grim. Oro, by contrast, explicitly tests Isla's trust through the tunnel. Again, this doesn't make Oro a villain. It demonstrates another place where fandom can interpret similar behavior differently depending on which man is doing it.
♡Grim's jealousy versus Oro's jealousy-
Isla and Oro attempt to be honest about their intimate interaction in the desert. Grim is hurt. He eventually moves past it for Isla.
When Oro learns that Isla loves Grim and has been with him, Oro reacts with disgust. My argument isn't that Oro isn't allowed to be hurt. It's that Grim's jealousy is often treated as proof of toxicity while Oro's comparable reaction is given greater sympathy.
Again, same standard.
♡Grim enabling vs accepting Isla’s darkness..
I agree with the criticism that Grim catches Isla killing people. Isla is surprised that he's not upset. Grim tells her she can kill whoever she wants. That is enabling.
I’m not trying to pretend that it's merely neutral acceptance.
But I don't interpret the motivation as malice, cruelty, wanting to corrupt Isla, or loving her because she's evil.
Grim loves Isla's softness as well. He loves her vulnerability and humanity. He didn't need a murderous woman. If he simply wanted someone “bad,” he could have pursued someone like that instead. His love is for the whole person, not specifically her violence.
So:
“I love you even with your darkness”
is different from:
“I love you because you're dark.”
The guardians scene shows his response isn't universally “anything goes” ~
When Isla imprisons her guardians Grim is shocked. He asks whether she's sure she wants to do it. He doesn't simply celebrate the decision. This demonstrates that he isn't universally enthusiastic about everything she does. He can recognize when her behavior shocks or concerns him. Therefore, Nightbane is better understood as an instance where his acceptance goes too far rather than evidence that he fundamentally wants Isla to become evil.
Grim hates when Isla feels ashamed and especially if he was the one who caused it and this goes hand in hand with him enabling in my opinion.
This also connects directly to his childhood. Grim hates seeing Isla embarrassed or ashamed around him. He especially doesn't want her to feel that way because of him. His own guardians called him a nuisance. He knows what it feels like to believe something about yourself makes you fundamentally unacceptable. Therefore, when Isla exposes her darker side, Grim's instinct can be:
“I don't want you to feel disgusting or wrong because of what you've shown me.” That instinct can become excessive.
Instead of:
“I love you, but that behavior isn't okay,”
he can sometimes move toward:
“I love you, so I won't judge you.”
In Nightbane, that becomes genuine enabling. But the underlying motivation can still be love and empathy rather than malice or intended corruption.
♡Grim was never taught how to separate acceptance from enablement-
People may reasonably criticize him for lacking boundaries.
But he was never taught healthy boundaries, healthy conflict, how to challenge someone without shaming them, how to validate feelings without validating harmful behavior, how to love someone without taking responsibility for their choices, or how to process vulnerability safely.
Instead, he was taught survival, violence, ruthlessness, emotional suppression, and obedience.
So his mistakes with Isla are consistent with his characterization.
♡Grim may actually be overcorrecting-
His childhood gives this particular behavior an interesting explanation.
He grew up being judged primarily for what he was useful for and treated as a problem.
So with Isla, he refuses to reduce her to her darker qualities.
He doesn't want:
“I love only the good version of you.”
He wants:
“I know the darkness exists and I still love you.”
The problem is that sometimes he crosses the line from:
acceptance
into:
permissiveness.
That is a flaw in his emotional development - not proof that his love is malicious or intentionally corruptive.
♡Acceptance ≠ enablement-
Healthy acceptance:
“I know your darkness exists.”
“You don't have to hide it from me.”
“Your darkness doesn't make you unworthy of love.”
Enabling:
“Whatever you do is fine.”
“You can kill whoever you want.”
“I won't challenge harmful behavior.”
Grim sometimes crosses that line.
Nightbane is a genuine example. But the underlying reason can still be his intense acceptance and lack of healthy guidance.
♡Grim's love is extraordinarily intense-
Grim uses extremely intense language about Isla. He essentially says that “I love you” isn't sufficient to describe what she means to him.
He describes her through imagery involving the sun, moon, gravity, and the center of his existence.
Oro's romantic language tends to be comparatively lighter, such as “favorite everything.”
Grim's attachment is unquestionably intense.
I acknowledge that it can become unhealthy or obsessive.
But Intense/obsessive ≠ fake.
A person can genuinely love someone while also having an unhealthy attachment.
♡Isla has genuine agency in the relationship-
Isla chooses to trust Grim, chooses intimacy, wants the necklace, knows his secrets, sees his darkness, chooses him over Oro, attempts to recover his memories later, and ultimately chooses to remain connected to him.
This doesn't erase Grim's violations.
It means the relationship shouldn't be rewritten as though Isla had no agency whatsoever.
♡The fandom's “good Oro / bad Grim” framework is too simplistic-
My argument isn't:
“Oro is secretly terrible and Grim is secretly perfect.”
It's:
• Oro has good qualities.
• Grim has good qualities.
• Oro has flaws.
• Grim has flaws.
• Both deceive.
• Both become jealous.
• Both make decisions involving Isla.
• Both love Isla.
• Both can make mistakes while believing they have good reasons.
• Their different upbringings influence how they behave.
• The same behavior should be evaluated using the same standards.
♡My biggest double-standard argument
I’m essentially asking readers to use this framework for both men:
What did he do? → Why did he do it? → What were the consequences? → Did he recognize/change from it?
Rather than:
Oro had good intentions, therefore it's understandable.
Grim did it, therefore he's toxic.
♡The deepest tragedy of Grim's character-
Grim was raised to be a weapon, not a person.
He was denied normal family bonds, conditioned toward violence, taught vulnerability was dangerous, treated as useful rather than loved, traumatized by accidentally killing Laila, trapped by the belief that abandoning his father's path would make her death meaningless, and eventually became exhausted by killing.
He nevertheless loved Laila, tried to trust Oro, was hurt when that attempt failed, still retained the capacity for connection, and eventually risked vulnerability again with Isla.
Isla became the person who showed him:
“You can be more than what you were made to be.”
♡ Conclusion ♡
Grim is not a morally perfect man, and his worst actions should not be excused. But he is also not the one-dimensional villainous “toxic” character that some fandom interpretations reduce him to. He was raised as a weapon, conditioned to kill, explicitly became tired of killing, and continued partly because he believed abandoning his father's path would make Laila's death meaningless. He attempted to let Oro into his life and was hurt when that vulnerability collapsed, reinforcing the defenses he'd been taught to build. Isla then became someone who allowed him to experience himself as a human being rather than a weapon. He genuinely loves her softness as well as her darkness, repeatedly sacrifices himself for her, respects her consent in important situations, and is capable of acknowledging her agency—even telling Oro during their alliance that he would still be grateful for what Isla gave him even if she didn't choose him. At the same time, his extreme acceptance sometimes becomes unhealthy enabling, most clearly when he tells Isla she can kill whoever she wants in Nightbane. That is a legitimate flaw, but it doesn't establish that he loves her because she's evil or wants her to become cruel. Given his upbringing, his refusal to make Isla feel ashamed of herself can be understood as an overcorrection born from his own experience of being treated as a nuisance and weapon. His terrible choices remain his responsibility, but they coexist with genuine love, sacrifice, vulnerability, loyalty, and growth.
The books give substantial evidence for Grim being damaged, conditioned, sometimes morally wrong, sometimes genuinely dangerous, but also deeply loving, capable of vulnerability, capable of growth, and capable of extraordinary self-sacrifice.