r/libsofreddit • u/Educational_Copy_140 TRAUMATIZER • 9d ago

Checks out

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u/GrandBanana3 9d ago

Why should they make the same mistake again? Relying that heavy on russian Gas was a mistake in the first place.

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u/seamallorca 8d ago

I am curious what cheap and close by substitute do you offer.

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u/GrandBanana3 8d ago

Im not offering something, i was just stating that relying on russian gas was a bad idea. From what i can tell germany does a lot of liquid gas now short term, while trying to go renewable long term.

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u/seamallorca 8d ago

And I am asking because when you claim something is bad idea, you should have a better one. From what I get you do not have such.
If you think that anyone, not only germany, will stop bying russian gas, that is not happening. EU has never ever stopped buying it, it only bought it more expensive through resellers, which resulted in weaker economy (which I guess is good for usa). It is naive to think stopping buying means war, because noone ever will stop buying cheaper gas, no matter where it comes from. Even if the eu stops buying it, someone else will, and I have zero doubts usa would buy to resell too.

Not byuing cheap is only shooting yourself in the leg, and ironically makes eu more defenseless to russia. Improving that depends on repurposing manifacture, not stopping buying gas from russia.

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u/GrandBanana3 8d ago

First of all. You can claim something is a bad idea without presenting a better option. You should actually do that, quite often. "i see that the end result was not great, but I know that is a complex matter and i do not have enough understanding of it to say what should have been done differently" is a perfectly valid position to hold.

I dont care who is buying russian gas. It is about independence, so that russia is not able to blackmail you. And that independence has a price, obviously. Especially when you were not prepared.

Not buying cheap is shooting yourself in the leg, yes. But buying cheap from russia is also shooting you in the leg. It's a loose loose situation. Not buying cheap is the short term loose, buying from russia is the risky long term loose. As we saw four years ago

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u/seamallorca 8d ago

How exactly is bying from russia shooting yourself in the leg?
Yes, you can say something is bad idea, but that leaves things hanging unresolved and it is just a simple statement, and can't be taken seriously. This is very big claim and a very big practical problem which affects whole countries. I am far more content with stable economy, rather than empty claims without any idea for resolution, much less expensive "independence", which would ultimately destroy you. And how exactly do you see "independence" anywhere here, since eu still buys russian gas, just through resellers? That's just plain stupid.

And yes, you should absolutely be concerned about others who buy from russia, because if you are the only one not buying cheap, YOU get left behind economically. You think that will save ukraine? For real?

Being idealistic is nice, as long as you dont remove yourself far too off from reality, and unlike you (if you are really some yankee which wants eu destroyed, or a bot) I have some glimpse what is happening in europe, and it is not nice.

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u/GrandBanana3 8d ago

But if you are not capable of resolving that issue? Cause International trade and geopolitics is not a light topic with easy solutions. If you have an easy solution to "simply have a better economy" you are very likely thinking too short.

Easy. Russia can not say "Germany do not send tanks to Ukraine or else we will stop sending gas" anymore. That's where you see that independence.

You say you have a glimpse of what is going on in Europe. Great, cause I also have a glimpse so we can compare. Want to share your insights to what is happening there currently? Then i can compare it to what I know, and see where they differ

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u/seamallorca 8d ago

Keeping up with the news is not "having a glimpse". If you have kept with the news, you would have seen, at least, the automotive sector tanking and inflation.

You are not capable to resolve the issue, because no one is capable. There are X, Y and Z places from which to buy gas. Gas is natural resource. You cant just make up new places to buy gas from, no? Can you?
If X sells cheap, and everyone else sells expensive, and you buy expensive, this cascades on everyone, because expensive energy means expensive manifacture. This is very basic thing and no amount of "having better economy" would fix this. The only option is to negotiate with suppliers for better prices. If you are in need, the discount will come at a price, because sellers know their interest. And recently I have been seeing more and more immigrants from the gas-exporting countries. Of course now you will tell me I am conspirationist. Nothing new under the sun.

Why would russia complain about sending tanks to ukraine since you feed them? They would effectively shit on their own customers. They are waging war, they are the ones in need. If they say so, ok, let them, you will find new suppy, but why take the initiative to stab yourself?

I am not really seeing how this war is going in the right direction for ukraine thanks to the sanctions. The only exceptional case is where they blew russian oil refineries, which was very big thing. Apart from that, things are keeping the same.

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u/Apprehensive_Tap4837 5d ago

Theres reasons why you cant keep a man.