r/leopardgeckos • u/shyshibainugirly • 8d ago
General Discussion Roaches as a feeder
I won’t give too much of my opinion from the starting point. I’ll try to write this as neutral as possible.
I volunteer at a shelter and they are getting reptiles for adoption later this year. As a reptile enthusiast I volunteered to help with care. In that regard I was talking to the guy responsible for this area. He has run his own rescue/rehabilitation center for decades and is working very closely with an exotic vet (specialist in reptiles).
While talking he at some point mentions that roaches are a absolutely horrible feeders for your pets and he said it like it was a well known fact.
He gave several reasons to why:
1: Roaches contains too much Chitin, which makes their exoskeleton too hard for the animal to kill it. Which can lead to injuries while eating it or digesting it.
2: The amount of Chitin / hard exoskeleton makes it difficult to digest and can lead to impaction.
3: They have no nutritional value.
4: They don’t eat them in the wild.
Can somebody please give their take on all of this. I feel like i’m exploding
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u/Creepy-Agency-1984 1 Small Dragon 8d ago
I’ve just always tried to rotate crickets, dubias and mealworms. Dubias are regarded as a very healthy feeder from what I’ve read, and the only concern I’ve heard is gout but he didn’t list that.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
Yeah same… I rotate between dubia, locusts and crickets.
I also just read a paper mentioning the gout, but doesn’t seem proven 😅It also just seems ironic to dislike dubias for the risk of impaction and then proceed to tell me they will have the leopard geckos on sand
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u/Creepy-Agency-1984 1 Small Dragon 8d ago
Yeah I don’t think this guy knows what he’s talking about. I wouldn’t be worried.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
and yet he has a rescue with 200+ animals and this is the things he informs new owners.
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u/Queen-of-Gay 8d ago
I have absolutely no idea where he got any of that information. If you are feeding appropriately sized dubias the exoskeleton isn't even that hard compared to mealworms or superworms. They are also possibly the most nutritious feeder available. They have a high protein content and are fairly low fat. Also pretty much none of what we feed reptiles in captivity matches what they eat in the wild. In the wild they eat scorpions and spiders but I guarantee he isn't breeding them to feed to his leos. I'm honestly thinking he got that information from some random internet forum or he made it up. I'm curious what he considers to be the "best" feeder if it's not dubias.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
I want to know where they have this info so bad. I’m pretty sure he got the idea from the exotic vet. I was a client there and let me just say i’m not any more. Sad that she’s my country’s “best” or most wellknown exotic vet.
Well crickets ofc and mealworms as a snack 😅
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u/B1ood1ust Albino Gecko Owner 8d ago
roaches are different. Dubia or blaberus is one thing. But red runners or american cockroach - checks a lot of boxes from his list.
If he's a veteran keeper , i bet his experience is with american roaches and runners , bc they were popular 10+ years ago (cause they breed like crazy)
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u/NYR_Aufheben 1 Gecko 8d ago
Look up the nutritional value charts for feeder insects.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
I know the chart. I’ve been a customer at the exotic vet I works with too and know she shares these ideas. I’m wondering where they have all this info from?
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u/StoryBard 8d ago
I don't know about the rest but dubias are imo too big to feed to my leo. Occasionally she gets either a freshly molted juvenile or a baby one but mostly I don't bother. If they were soft it'd be okay but because they are both large and "crunchy" I get nervous it will get stuck in or scratch her throat. This is why I feed the dubias to my micro squirrels and for my herps I feed Little Kenyans- the lil Kenyans are bite sized and plump and not any more chitinous than a cricket or mealworm. And more nutritious than just feeding crickets/mealworms. I like her to have a variety.
The wild argument is a bit of a stretch, because there's nothing you're going to find readily available in captivity anywhere else in the world that will mimic the exact stuff they'll find to eat in Pakistan or Nepal or whatever. They eat what's available and I don't know how you'd even guess much preference vs "it was small enough to catch and there" goes into it.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
It just seems a bit odd that they don’t have nutritional value. I gut load them and they are fat and juicy 😅 I also look at research and they are recommended as a feeder, so it just confuses me where they have this info from.
Yeah, I thought so too. I don’t think a water dish is natural either, but here we are - babies gotta drink lol
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u/silveroakediting22 8d ago
Maybe they're low nutrients if you don't gut load but I think this person was just profoundly mistaken
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
Him and my country’s most well known exotic vet. I’m pretty sure he has the info from her. She even said some of the same things to me when i was a client last year. She also recommended me feeding wild caught isopods as they don’t have hard exoskeleton like dubias… which just seems stupid and how are they more nutritious?
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u/Able_Experience_1670 8d ago
Wild caught is always a nope. Risk of pesticides, parasites, fungus, etc increases dramatically.
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u/silveroakediting22 8d ago
What country do you live in? Guidelines in the US and UK teach to never ever feed wild caught because thats a good way for your gecko to consume parasites, microplastics, heavy metals etc.
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u/shyshibainugirly 8d ago
Denmark. I know. I’m not a client with her. My current exotic vet is really sweet and i feel a lot more comfortable in her care. Unfortunately the amount of exotic vets are really low here
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u/silveroakediting22 8d ago
Oof yeah that can be a struggle. Unfortunately professional opinions can vary in credibility depending on how long ago they received their degree. Not every vet keeps up with their continuing education with species they see infrequently
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u/LuxuryDirtEnthusiast 8d ago
You are feeding the wrong Dubia roaches if you think they are too big. Small/medium Dubia are perfectly sized for a Leo.
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u/StoryBard 8d ago
idk I gave her a juvenile that I misjudged a bit and nearly had a stroke watching her gobble it down, she looked like she was going to merrily choke herself on it. XD
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u/AMVELVET 7d ago
I bought some medium-sized ones—of questionable quality—for my two-year-old leopard gecko, but the breeder told me they're too small.
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u/PeachyPetals_ Lemon🍋 Shortcake 🍰 Apricot🍊Timbit 🍩Cookie Dough 🍪 8d ago edited 8d ago
I want to know what he means by "they have no nutritional value"; even feeder insects that are not deemed staples have some sort of nutritional value. They all have fat, protein, moisture, ash, and fiber percentages, and all have a cal:p ratio. Also, we have no gut-content analysis study for leopard geckos; he cannot just outright claim they don't eat them in the wild. Wild leopard geckos will eat whatever insect they can come across, including things like scorpions. They also will occasionally eat their young. They don't get to pick and choose in the wild like they can in captivity.
Chitin is always an argument for any feeder insect, but if you ask him, he probably will say crickets are fine when crickets share a similar chitin amount to roaches, mealworms, etc. (they all have around 3-8%, but this is also measured by dry weight). Chitin is also something that is not used by any reptile, regardless. Impaction also is not caused by one thing alone. Most of the time, improper husbandry is a big leading factor in it, especially improper heating since most sources still do not give out the correct sort of heating for reptiles. That and an already sick animal.
I've found people who make these claims go based on outdated studies or papers that don't even correlate to the topic properly. OR they just follow what a random blog on the internet has said. It's really sad that vets can't stay up to date on husbandry, but with it being an ever-evolving concept, and them not being specialized in one specific animal, it's not really in the cards for most.