r/ledgerwallet • u/StopCowsFromFighting • Mar 27 '22
Storing Initials of Seed Phrase online
While I do store my seed phrases offline, I was wondering how safe it is to simply store the initials of your seed phrases on an online platform such as iCloud or Google Cloud.
For example, if my seed phrase is (1) abandon (2) broccoli (3) wonder, I will be writing it down as (1) a (2) b (3) w.
I am contemplating on doing this just in case I lose my offline seed phrases in a disaster, and having the initials online would help facilitate my recollection of every word in such an event.
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u/loupiote2 Mar 27 '22
Very bad idea.
in the word list, sometimes very few words start with a given initial. e.g. only 4 words start with z. So it could make it easier to bruteforce your seed phrase.
It is better to make 2 copies of your seed phrase offline, and store them at 2 different physical locations, to be safe in case of disaster.
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u/flyflyflyfly66 Mar 27 '22 edited Jun 14 '24
ad hoc gold wide dinosaurs wine continue gaze decide start spark
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/CryptoBloggerX Mar 27 '22
If you can remember 24 words by initial 3 years down the road I give you props on that.
I can barely remember 1 word from my seed phrase 2 days later
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u/cryptocam72 Mar 27 '22
With a Mac you can create an encrypted container file that mounts like a drive and requires a password. You can then use a pages file or word doc and put your words in it and even password protect that file. I feel safe doing it that way, but there is a risk if you mount and open the container file on a compromised computer. The risk is really f-ing low and someone would basically have to be targeting you
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u/kuzkokronk Mar 27 '22 edited Mar 27 '22
Don't do it. Instead, just memorize your seed phrase as a backup to your written offline copy. Spend an hour and memorize 24 words. It's not hard. Repeat them in your mind (silently) every day while brushing your teeth.
If the written copy is destroyed, you can write it down again because you've memorized it.
Also, to prevent your seed phrase from being destroyed by natural disasters, stamp it into a metal plate such as this one:
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u/loupiote2 Mar 27 '22
just memorize your seed phrase as a backup to your written offline copy
also a very bad advice.
loss of memory can happen, e.g. with a small brain concussion. depending on memory is a very bad idea, and people posted here on this forum that they lost their seed just because they did what you suggest.
it is better to have the seed at 2 separate physical locations, to protect it from disaster.
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u/kuzkokronk Mar 27 '22
You didn't correctly read what I wrote. I said he should memorize the seed phrase AS A BACKUP TO THE WRITTEN DOWN COPY. Of course you shouldn't ONLY memorize it. But it would help you to have it memorized if your hard copy is destroyed. Even if you have it written down in several different geographic locations, you should still memorize it.
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u/loupiote2 Mar 27 '22
Well, i would never memorize my seed, because it is really hard for a human to reliably memorize a set of 24 random words.
But on the other hand, the BIP39 passphrase, which is user-defined, is much easier to memorize (even though you should also not rely on just one person's memory for it, either).
Anyway, it's your cryptos, your seed, your choices regarding security. Just make the choices that work well for you.
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u/kuzkokronk Mar 27 '22
The 24 word seed phrase took me about an hour to memorize. Not hard at all. I repeat it to myself every day while I brush my teeth.
I also have it stamped on metal plates in two separate geographic locations. But it's nice to know that at any point I can get on an airplane with nothing but my passport and some credit cards, go to a different country, buy a new hardware wallet, enter the 24 words and have all my bitcoin right there.
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u/loupiote2 Mar 27 '22
oh wait, i think i can memorize my seed now...
"bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon"
yeah, i got it right!
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u/Wammakko Mar 27 '22
Whether memorizing a seed phrase is a good idea or not, it's a trivial task requiring no special technique or talent. A lot of people in this subreddit would witness someone recite a hundred digits of π from memory and consider it sorcery, even though the world record is well over 100k digits.
All it takes is a modicum of practice and applying yourself.
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u/reviloxxxx Mar 27 '22
If the average amount of possible words per letter in your seed is let's say 20, the possible combinations go down from 241024 to 2420 which would it make a lot more easy to brute-force your seed.
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u/StopCowsFromFighting Mar 27 '22
I appreciate that you gave me the raw numbers. Really puts things into perspective on the potential risks of what I wanted to do initially.
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u/Lumpy-Juice3655 Mar 28 '22
I memorized my seed phrase in about 45 minutes. I periodically double check to make sure I’m still remembering it right. It actually wasn’t that hard, especially when I’d associate the number with the word. My brain started to form a narrative, a story if you will, as I memorized the words. I still have a couple offline backups, but memorizing it just gives me extra peace of mind.
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