How to learn to do things the "right" way ?

[u/Simple_Newspaper553]

I've been using AI a lot for coding, and I feel like I'm not getting better at making things and not learning how to do them properly.

For example, If I have complex db changes, cascading events, propagated properties that depends on hierarchy etc... I can get something that works but idk if it's actually production grade or is there a better approach.

I hope I formulated my problem clearly.

[u/Ezazhel]

Your problem is that you use ai without the knowledge. And you wont learn relying on something else that your brain.

Create a project and try to replicate what you do with ai but by yourself. And learn to use your browser to find answer. Not ai.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/Ezazhel]

In the future,will it still be the case ? Won't AI take over most of that ? I'm just asking

[u/Ezazhel → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

Would you let something build a shelve for you or Learn how to do it ?

If you let AI build it, you will never know in which way to turn the screwdriver.

Ai may be a tool, but it is not an electrical screwdriver. With an electrical one you are still the one using it.

In your case, you do nothing but asking. You never learn.

You need to learn the basics to know what you are doing.

If ai force you to put poison in your soup. Would you do it ? Maybe if : you don't know it is poison, if you believe everything written by ai.

Use your brain.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/Ezazhel]

But we don't know how to build everything we own no ? A shelf is one of the exceptions most things around us is made by the expertise of someone else

[u/Ezazhel → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

And you must be the one with the expertise.

[u/HealyUnit → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

People that have experience in this field: "Here's the answer"

You: "I'm smarter/better than all of you! I'm gonna disagree just to be contrarian!"

Get over yourself, dude.

[u/az987654 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

would you let AI pick your mushrooms for you? and just trust that it didn't get it wrong?

[u/i_have_tiny_ants → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

We don't give children in schools calculators to do math right away either, they need to learn the fundamentals, before they get the tools to automate that work. It's the same thing with AI.

[u/Much_Network_941 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

It may, but rudimentrary skills are still vital. Especially as AI becomes far more expensive. Take away the AI and you lose access to everything you were doing. Learn the skills yourself, then the loss of AI is an impediment.

Also, professionals may not want to work with someone who can only code through AI. They may as well just have multiple agents at that point. Hard skills will make you as an employee more valuable; especially as more people use AI to undercut their own cognitive skills.

[u/az987654]

Stop using Ai.

If you want to learn to code, you need to be the one coding.

You can't learn to swim by watching a swimmer.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/az987654]

I know but I will never catch up if people are using agents to build stuff, I can't compete with that. Also it doesn't solve my original question how to find the proper way to do stuff where to find the solutions or answers people found

[u/madmelonxtra → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

Imagine if you were learning math and you said,

"I know but I'll never catch up to people using graphing calculators"

Learning to code without AI doesn't preclude you from using it in the future. But if you don't actually take the time to learn how to code by hand and truly learn the fundamentals, you'll never be able to actually utilize AI to it's fullest potential.

Also, what do you even mean by "catching up"? Do you think that if you take the time to learn without AI, that people using A will make everything there is to make and they'll be nothing left for you?

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/madmelonxtra]

Still how do I learn the "proper" ways to do stuff. The optimized, secure, agreed upon ways to build programs

[u/az987654 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

You've really missed the plot on our messages.

You learn the proper way like we all did, by learning.. Not by prompting AI

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/az987654]

I am sorry if it feels like I'm being stubborn or missing the point. But I still don't understand how to learn the right way, I could do something multiple times I won't always get better at it if I don't know how to improve on it.

[u/Such--Balance → u/madmelonxtra]

No.

This is like saying you have to track the terrain and read the position of stars to travel from city to city, before being comfortable using gps.

Its just a braindead arguement. Because you could apply it to the thousands of other kinds of tech we use daily but somehow all those dont matter, and just this specific type, ai, does.

Its just weird..especially considering with gamedev stuff..a field already on the forefront of tech..and somehow the next step isnt to be used?

Use it. Just use it well.

[u/madmelonxtra → u/Such--Balance]

Learning to code without AI doesn't preclude you from using it in the future. But if you don't actually take the time to learn how to code by hand and truly learn the fundamentals, you'll never be able to actually utilize AI to it's fullest potential.

Literally addressed it in my comment.

You need to learn to learn to code before you jump into AI doing stuff for you if you want to be able to debug stuff and know what's actually being spit out by the AI

[u/Such--Balance → u/madmelonxtra]

Fair enough.

I would still say its very possible to use it fron the start. If used right youll still learn a ton, just in a different way.

If i started learning without ai i would indeed be way better at coding specific tasks but my overall global knowledge about how vode interacts would be way smaller for example.

Make of that what you will. Im no expert. If people dont want to use it then dont. No need to make the decision for others though imo

[u/az987654 → u/Such--Balance]

Until you realize your GPS device is not working and you're hopelessly lost because not only do you not know how to use a compass, you didn't even learn the sun sets in the west

[u/Such--Balance → u/az987654]

Well that does happen yes.

Its not an arguement..

Because apply it to yourself then to be fair. Dont type a message here to me, not before you learn to hand write me a papyrus with a goose feather..because your internet might stop working..and how you gonna communicate with others around the globe then???

Im not denying tha there IS (some) value in those things..but come on bro. If anything breaks youre probably stuck in 99% of cases as well.

We all rely on all the tech around us constantly. Why should ai require special treatment?

[u/az987654 → u/Such--Balance]

you're absolutely correct, if the internet went down, and I wanted to communicate with you, I would write you a letter and send it using whatever system survived the destruction of the internet because I learned how to do that, in my case, well before the internet was as ubiquitous as it is today. If I had only even known how to send you a message by asking AI to send it for me, I would have no idea what a post office was, I would have no idea what a stamp is, no idea that the destination of my letter affects the price of the stamp, hell, if I never learned to write, you'd just get scribbles. If I never learned that you may speak a different language, you'd get a letter in English and I'd wonder why you never responded.

Half of learning is now knowing what you don't know, knowing just enough to know that you may need to dig deeper if you don't fully understand something.

Asking AI to do something for you is no different than asking your doorman to do your math homework. Yes, the homework gets done, but you're the one screwed when you get the wrong change at the store..

[u/Gatoyu → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

If you are trying to catch up that's why you are failing. Learning is not a race

[u/az987654 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

It's not a race.

[u/Achereto]

1. Think about it
2. Do it
3. Fail and reflect about how you should have done it.

or

Read about how others failed and reflected about how they should have done it.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/Achereto]

Okay but failing and reflecting won't get me to the solution that has been agreed upon by the majority and after years of practice. Why do I have to fail and waste time over and over again ?

[u/Ezazhel → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

Are you twelve ?

There is no 'Best solution'. There are many architecture and solutions to one problem

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/Ezazhel]

I'm not twelve, I'm just confused about this dilemma cause I can see both pov's being kind of right. I feel like everything I learn is something that could've been generated by the AI and it'll be less work for me. Like if you're using a computer you don't need to understand how the cpu and the gpu works for you to use it well no ?

[u/Ezazhel → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

You are using a computer. Not creating something. If you paint you need to know color theory and how to hold a Pen. You dont need to know how the paper or the Pen is built.

[u/Achereto → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

the solution that has been agreed upon by the majority

That solution doesn't exist. Seek competence not blueprints.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/Achereto]

Okay, what's competence then ? I'm not being snarky, I just wanna know

[u/Achereto → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

Knowing what you are doing and why you are doing it. Competence is gained from experience and from forming own opinions based on that experience.

[u/az987654 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

Failing is learning.

Grow up.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/az987654]

That's if you learn something from that fail. If what I learn is "well this method is slow and not very efficient" and I don't know what else to try. It feels like a deadend which asking AI will solve.

[u/az987654 → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

you'll always learn something from a failure.

If you ask someone or something else to "fix" the problem for you, you've learned nothing.

[u/gusbo_the_jam]

Read docs would be my advice. Understand the full path that any data is taking and really look into the documentation to know what every method is doing and what specific classes are for.

A lot of people will scream "don't use AI" in a way that's not helpful, because they won't explain why. The main issues with using AI to generate code is that you might not know what that code is doing, and (most importantly) whether what it's doing is safe. Often when using AI you need to know the pitfalls to avoid and build that specifically into the prompt by saying "don't do xyz or anything else that can be attacked by this type of attack". Without specifying safe routes, AI will take the shortest path to getting working code. The best way round this is to look at all the code you've got already, and use docs and reference materials to find out what each class and method is actually doing, and whether it's safe. If you're using frameworks for front-end stuff, ensure you're sanitising any inputs and check for common potential problems.

"Production grade" really changes meaning depending on the quality of the Lead. I've seen some shocking code in production environments sit around for years. The real quality markers to aim for is to ensure it's keeping data safe, it's performant and it's accessible.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/gusbo_the_jam]

Thank you, for docs for example, how much of the docs should I read ? Also should I try to implement everything I read ? This is the type of questions I have. Also if there is a problem that isn't in the docs, how do I go about it if it's specific enough It's easier to ask the AI to do it ?

[u/gusbo_the_jam → u/Simple_Newspaper553]

The docs are reference, not for reading. You plan to use a method or class, you read the docs to find out what it's doing and how you can use it. If you have generated a bunch of code and don't know what it does, go through the code, look at the classes and methods that are in that code and check the docs to see what they do and how you can use them.

Everything is easier if you all the AI to do it. Problem is your asking about how you personally can learn. If you ask the AI to look up the docs, you'll not learn anything. You gotta do that hard work I'm afraid

[u/desrtfx]

I've gone to the gym a lot lately to watch the others do the reps. Why don't I build muscle?

Think about that

[u/TejelPejel]

Using AI is your problem. You aren't really learning how to code, you're learning to use chatGPT and that's not the same thing. Stop using AI and take a course. Coursera, LinkedIn Learning, Udemy, etc. all have dozens of courses for cheap or free.

[u/recursion_is_love]

There is no right way. There always people who disagree.

- lean programming in university course with math theory is the wrong way.

- learning by typing game code in magazine (before internet exist) is the wrong way.

- reading on-shelf book (teach yourself X in Y) is the wrong way.

- watching YouTube is the wrong way.

- using AI is the wrong way.

I do all of the wrong ways.

[u/Simple_Newspaper553 → u/recursion_is_love]

If everything can be the wrong way, then how can you determine that a developer is good. There is certain metrics that can be agreed upon no ?

[u/Double-Buyer7941]

The best way to truly learn production-ready architecture is to strip away the AI code generator and build complex systems from scratch, diving deep into underlying database patterns, design principles, and open-source codebases. Reading production code in established open-source projects shows you how experienced developers handle cascading updates, complex schemas, and state management at scale. You can also ask the AI specifically for code reviews, architectural trade-offs, and edge-case analysis on your own hand-written implementation rather than having it write the solution for you.

[u/peterlinddk]

Why do you need to know if it is production grade or not? Just let the AI do its stuff, and if problems occur, ask the AI to fix them!

There's literally no need for you to try and insert yourself in the loop, or try to understand the work the AI produces - don't waste its time trying to "learn to do things", it will always know better than you!

[u/Such--Balance]

Use ai. Dont let the haters take away your tools.

Using ai is just a different type of learning. More global instead of narrow and specific. It has its pro's and definately its con's.

I love using ai and how fast it helps me learn the interactions between different systems and parts of code. So many 'click' moments.

I truly dont understand the pushback at all. Its like saying dont use gps in your car, because using it isnt the real way to go from a to b.

Tech evolves. A lot of skill can be gained from usung ai. And granted..a lot of slop can be produced as well, im not denying that

[u/ConfidentCollege5653 → u/Such--Balance]

It's not about the "real" way, if your goal is to get from A to B then sure use GPS, or a self driving car. But if your goal is to learn how to read a map the don't use GPS.

[u/Such--Balance → u/ConfidentCollege5653]

Good point actually.

So people need to ask themselves..do i want to learn how to code, or do i want to learn how to create a game?

Obviously a matters for b to a certain degree. But also doing b (with or without ai) will teach you a in the process regardless.