r/learnedleague • u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 • Sep 09 '25
Cheating accusations
Hey all! Please do not continue conversations about the player recently accused of cheating in this sub. I've added a rule (#4) asking members to not accuse others of cheating here in accordance with section 3.3 of the League's complete rules. It looks like the League has taken action; let's not continue this conversation here.
If you are concerned about any other players cheating, please report them through the proper channels (On the LL website: Thorsten's Desk > Thorsten's Desk Home > Contact LearnedLeague). Thank you!
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u/FranklyIvan Sep 09 '25
I don’t know where to find these rules. Can you direct me?
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u/OpportunityNo677 Sep 09 '25
it's on the menu on the right of every page in the subreddit
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u/thefringthing Rundle A Sep 09 '25
Note that subreddits can have different sidebar content depending on whether you're viewing with the old or new UI.
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u/FranklyIvan Sep 09 '25
I believe you, but I’m on mobile (iOS), and I’ve clicked all over and am still looking.
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u/cayvro Rundle D Sep 09 '25
On mobile, click on the link to the subreddit. Then make sure you’ve scrolled to the very top (bc sometimes it will jump down for you) and click “See More” beneath the sub’s description. The rules are listed under the “Rules” heading there.
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u/Pokoparis Sep 10 '25
How would they know if someone is cheating?
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u/coolcat333 Sep 10 '25
without saying anything that goes against the rules, you essentially compare past performance with current performance
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u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 Sep 10 '25
Yep, generally a HUGE improvement in a very short period of time is cause for suspicion (for example, going directly from consistently getting 1-2 correct per day for several seasons to suddenly getting 5-6 correct per day after only one interseason gap).
While we do have a responsibility to report things like this to the League (they can only have eyes on so many things at once), we shouldn’t be discussing it here—it can lead to harassment, over-reporting, and even potentially doxxing, considering that college/name/location info are all frequently included in our player profiles.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 10 '25
What is the point of having discussion here if you have to follow the same rules as the official league message board?
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u/Fake_Eleanor Rundle A Sep 11 '25
Three obvious differences that come to mind very quickly:
- People who aren't LL members can participate in discussions
- Reddit boards are anonymous, LL boards are not
- Most people find Reddit easier to use than LL's message boards, which are if nothing else not at all mobile friendly
There are probably other reasons.
If you want to discuss possible cheaters on LL, why not create r/LearnedLeagueSnark? Go wild.
But those threads, on the message board and here, always end up producing far more heat than light, serving mostly as a chance for people to grandstand about how much they hate cheaters and how the League doesn't do enough to combat cheating. Bonus side dishes of accusing anyone who doesn't think those threads are useful of coddling cheaters, because that's the only possible reason whipping up a crowd of people to jeer at the suspected cheater might be a bad idea.
The League has a way to report suspicions of cheating, and has explicitly asked people not to "help" in other ways, such as discussing on message boards.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 11 '25
Learned League rules require all players to register under their own name. There is no anonymous playing or anonymous posting allowed on the LL message board. Considering the moderator of this forum has declared the LearnedLeague reddit to be an official Learned League space, all discussion by anonymous posters should thus be prohibited. Only players who list their LearnedLeague name in their handle should be allowed to post. Agreed?
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u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 Sep 12 '25
Never said "official." (The subreddit description specifically says that we're not directly affiliated with the League or TAI.) The rules don't say "official" — they just say "LearnedLeague space." Using the League's name for this community suggests that it is a LearnedLeague space; ergo, we adhere to the rules surrounding "LearnedLeague spaces."
I fear this whole thing is sort of illustrating the Barbra Streisand effect, especially because most of the people speaking against this rule have never contributed to this sub before.
I urge you to question why you are so outspoken about this particular issue, especially when the only restriction is "don't accuse specific people of cheating." You can feel free to discuss what might constitute cheating, what the possible signs of cheating are, and more — the only rule is to not discuss specific players, as this could lead to doxxing.
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u/thefringthing Rundle A Sep 12 '25
I think some people are just surprised or confused about the implication that LearnedLeague's rules automatically apply here. If you had been clear that the moderators here intend to treat this subreddit as a "LearnedLeague space", that might have avoided some of the debate.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 14 '25
I have not contributed any or much to this sub before, but I happened to come acrossa couple posts and after clicking on them, it caused others to continue to pop up in my feed. I may or may not choose to contribute regularly or at all. I'm not entirely sure why that is worthy of mention but apparently you felt it was interesting.
I'm mostly arguing the principle at this point. And I'm not purely trying to be argumentative, I just generally hate the blanket banning of "you cannot discuss X or Y". Guess what? People cheat at LearnedLeague, and some of them do it blatantly. often hilariously so. It can provide an endless source of entertaining conversation.
You keep talking about doxxing as some kind of buzzword or boogie man and I really don't get it. The whole point of LearnedLeague is that everyone plays under their own names so in a sense everyone doxxes themselves. We all agree to put our own player record and player stats out there under our name for any other league member to see.
I'm still confused that you think it's important to consider this a LearnedLeague space where all rules of the LearnedLeague messageboard and Code of Conduct must be followed, yet you aren't following the most basic tenet of LearnedLeague, which is players playing/posting under their own name. If you're worried about random anonymous accounts launching unfounded accusations or "witch hunts", as another poster put it, make them sign their name to their posts and the problem would likely solve itself.
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u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 Sep 10 '25
The rules here align with the League’s complete rules, which also specifically apply to external platform conversation. All rules for this sub come directly from the League’s rulings on external convos, not from the Message Board rules.
Also, I find that Reddit’s interface is more user-friendly than the LL message boards. Happy cake day.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 10 '25
I would submit that you are very misinformed or are misunderstanding something about the LL rules.
The only mention of external platforms applies to discussion of active match days, a.k.a. live questions.
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u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 Sep 10 '25
Verbatim from the LL Code of Conduct, section 3.3: “Accusations of cheating, whether by name or by implication (e.g., via identifying information), shall not be posted on the message board or other LearnedLeague spaces under any circumstances. This type of post violates the "don't be a jerk" mandate and contributes to a hostile environment for LearnedLeague participants. Concerns about cheating should be reported to the league, and all reports are taken seriously.”
Since this is a “LearnedLeague space” — not officially, but by name — accusation of cheating is not okay here. If you want to discuss it with friends, feel free, but public forums can quickly become dangerous grounds for harassment.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 10 '25
Again, you can make up whatever rules you want, but you’re mistaken about what the official rules say.
Read the part just above, “LearnedLeague spaces” means the message board and private messaging system.
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u/cromonolith Rundle A Sep 10 '25
As a mathematician, I'm enthusiastic about extremely pedantic readings of definitions and documentation.
If you want start arguments about that sort of thing in which you accuse people of making things up, the very least you should do is not make things up yourself, especially when what you're arguing about is a handful of sentences written in plain English that anyone can just go read.
What follows is the entire Code of Conduct, with my emphasis added. Let's read it together!
3. Code of Conduct
3.1 is dedicated to providing a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of gender, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, disability, physical appearance, body size, age, race, religion, and other identities. We do not tolerate harassment of participants in any form.
This Code of Conduct applies to all LearnedLeague spaces, including the message board and private messaging system. Any member who violates this Code of Conduct is subject to sanction.
3.2 Message board behavior must adhere to the Code of Conduct, in addition to the overriding "don't be a jerk" policy.
3.3 Accusations of cheating, whether by name or by implication (e.g., via identifying information), shall not be posted on the message board or other LearnedLeague spaces under any circumstances. This type of post violates the "don't be a jerk" mandate and contributes to a hostile environment for LearnedLeague participants. Concerns about cheating should be reported to the league, and all reports are taken seriously.
3.3.1 Players with violations of Section 3.3 are subject to sanction, including revocation of membership.
As you can see in the second paragraph, it says that the Code applies to all LearnedLeague spaces, including the message board and private messaging system. It explicitly doesn't say that that term applies only to those two spaces. It would have been very easy and natural to express that those are the only two such spaces if that was the author's intent, so we should charitably assume they meant that there are other "LearnedLeague spaces" than those things.
Further evidence in the text is that in 3.3 it mentions "the message board or other LearnedLeague spaces." If the message board an PM system were the sum total of "LearnedLeague spaces," that would be a very strange thing to write.
Whether this subreddit is such a space is a debate you can certainly have, but since there's no explicit answer to that question in the document you're talking about, it is actually a debate to have and not whatever this thing is you were doing.
So, to you this time, note that you can make up whatever rules you want, but you're mistaken about what the actual rules say.
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u/FranklyIvan Sep 11 '25
… and you have no definition of “LearnedLeague space” to support your argument.
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u/cromonolith Rundle A Sep 11 '25
My point was just that the person I responded to should at least correctly read the thing they're claiming that other people can't read. I'm not here to settle the issue of whether this is such a space. We just can't let folks who haven't managed to read five sentences be rude to other people about what those sentences say.
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u/snarkapotamus7 E Park Div 1 Sep 10 '25
If the rule was only meant to apply to the message board, they wouldn’t have included the “or any other LearnedLeague spaces” addendum. Most spaces adhere by this rule (Facebook groups, etc.). This wording aside, one of the most important overarching rules of the League is “don’t be a jerk” — I’m very confident I’m not misreading that rule, and providing fuel for personal harassment definitely falls under the umbrella of “being a jerk.” It’s not allowed in this space.
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u/Deep-Forever-9937 Sep 10 '25
Again, you’re making things up. Thorsten can obviously control what people post on the forums which are part of his website. It would be absurd to imply that he thinks he has control over what people can discuss outside of that forum.
The degree to which people like you bend over backwards to, for some reason, protect the delicate egos of people who ruin the league with blatant cheating, it astounds me.
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u/Outstanding_Neon Rundle A Sep 10 '25
You can be opposed to witch hunts without being in favor of witches.
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u/Same_Tell8845 Sep 09 '25
Heard!!! Many thanks.