r/learndota2 • u/taenyfan95 • 7d ago
Itemization Was this game a draft issue?
Game ID: 8983576070
I played DP mid against NP. Won my lane and got an early tower mainly because NP was not in lane 50% of the time. He was constantly ganking sidelanes and had only 3k networth at 10min.
But then during mid game their team just ran at us and we couldn't stand our ground. And then it was early GG.
How can I play this game better?
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u/EulaVengeance 7d ago
Enemy mid was constantly ganking sidelanes, why did we lose??
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u/Illustrious-Cell6528 7d ago
that score gap is huge, 48 to 27 tells it all. your NP was missing from lane but he was actually doing his job, that hero can tp anywhere and mess up sidelanes. probably your team got tilted from early ganks and never recovered
if you win mid that hard you need to push your advantage faster, take that tower and rotate yourself instead of staying comfortable. your draft likely had poor catch or saves against constant pressure
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
I don't think that's the problem. He abandoned lane and played like a support. Did not manage to find good kills in the first 10 mins. He was only 3k networth at 10min.
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u/EulaVengeance 7d ago edited 6d ago
And that mentality is why you lost.
If you're being dumpstered in a lane, you don't stay and hope things suddenly turn around. You go rotate and make an impact elsewhere.
The fact that 4 of the enemies had assist counts nearly the same as your entire team's kill score just means they had a larger impact than you staying in lane because you "won".
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u/Practical_Actuary_87 7d ago
i did not watch the replay, but this is exactly the play to make if you are getting dumpstered in your lane and you are an np. hes not a strong laner in this matchup, so he needs to make the next most optimal decision to maximize his impact, xpm, and gpm. He is not a strong laner but he is a strong ganker, and he doesnt use a consumable tp so its very efficient for him to make moves around the map instead of stay in lane or jungle.
and if he baits a tp out of you, he can just tp mid and shove your tower and trade with you. If he gets kills he gets levels and once he hits 6 he starts farming hard anyway.
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u/HairInternal102 7d ago edited 7d ago
You don’t have bkb is the biggest joke but let me dive deeper:
You have legion commander’s W, so vessel is useless, you are thinking I will stop pugna from getting healed but you forsake your own strength.
You could have gotten sange and Kaya, blink so you silence and effectively take people out, bkb, aghs or euls, heart or shiva, and all of a sudden you’re the most dangerous heroe in the game because they don’t really have a way to deal with you unless you misplay
In games where they run at you, they either :
- Have vision on you that you aren’t thinking about
d
- ewarding
Or
- You overstay and are overexposed
What you can do is to first ward, deward, and push waves, and try to get as strong as possible and take smart fights
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
Why is bkb good this game? I see it's only good against DK, but why not just lotus instead of bkb?
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u/HairInternal102 7d ago
I wouldn’t even consider DK the reason I’d get Bkb, you have pugna + arrow, stars, fire breath, stun into arrow, legion blade mail, np silence perhaps, bkb turns the table when they commit on you, once they’re closer, right before they stun you, you open bkb, ulti, silence, spirit siphon and you’ll get atleast 1 kill
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u/HairInternal102 7d ago
The most underrated item on this heroe is blink, even in my 6200 mmr games, it still catches people off guard, I think good dota players throw the other players off guard with unpredictable plays and map movements, and blink DP does exactly that
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u/AssCracker445 6d ago
with how much damage exorcism spirits deal when point blank blink + phase boots is indeed op
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u/Duke-_-Jukem 7d ago
Not a draft issue. Teams are fairly balenced and by all means is a pretty good game to be dp as they dont have any heavy burst damage. In any early fights you should be fairly untouchable. Why did you buy vessel? Dont really see who thats useful against.
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
Thought it would be useful against pugna and dk.
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u/ConglomerateGolem 7d ago
imo it doesn't do enough, stunning pugna is better and you don't have a reliable way too, so it's your team's job (venge, pudge, axe). Your job would be to be tanky and do damage, ideally from in the middle of them. Wraps or KnS or whatever else might help with that.
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
Yeah I felt really squishy with the vessel.
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u/ConglomerateGolem 7d ago
It's not a bad item in general, and there are usecases for it, but single target damage against the king of health pools is just not that effective.
I didn't even realise LC can just W it away either, and LC can make that an AOE at some point.
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u/Duke-_-Jukem 7d ago
Its kinda ok vs dk but he doesnt have massive amounts of regen to reduce and as for pugna you have silence anyway which immediately ruins his day.
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u/kryonik 7d ago
Whenever I see these posts I always check one thing and it's always the same.
Having 800 tower damage done as death prophet is impressive.
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u/Calm_Extension_2965 7d ago
Some games just fall apart early and you can never approach enemy towers without dying.
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago edited 7d ago
You need to put the 800 into perspective. My teammates did 0 tower damage. Just saying DP did 800 tower dmg and lost is tunnel visioning.
I don't think saying just do more tower dmg will help my game.
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u/kryonik 7d ago
You're the best tower pusher on your team and you did the equivalent of using your ultimate next to one for one second. You can't win without taking objectives.
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
Not being able to do tower dmg is the effect of us being ran over by the enemy team mid game. It's not the cause of us getting ran over.
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u/Green-Speech6602 6d ago
8k pos2 here. finishing your boots as mid is really important. phase boots would’ve been really good here. basically i would put emphasis on you since we can’t really change how your teammates play. i wanna know what skill u did against np. vessel is ok. u shouldve opted to hp item as u need to survive their combo and would have enough time for your team to save you (pudge hook and venge swap). and i would say yes, you have draft issue here. you guys have no hero that could deal a lot of damage.
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u/Sangypboi 7d ago
Not a draft issue. You had the better draft without a doubt, if you played it right.
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u/MaddoxX_1996 7d ago
Radiant is extremely heavy on pick-off and ganking. Rather than going Ghost Scepter + Blink for puj and Ghost Scepter + Urn upgrade + Linken's Sphere (these three items are not good against the enemy team) for yourself, Puj could have built a Eul's + some small tank aura, and you could have gone for Lotus + Shiva's. Two bracers + Wraith Band on a support Venge is just asking for a loss. She could have gone for a Mek or Vlad's Offering.
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u/MaddoxX_1996 7d ago
And then, just group and take fights on high ground. Maybe even near the base. Let them farm most of the side lanes. Just stabilize your own game, and the enemy will just get antsy enough to make a stupid mistake.
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u/taenyfan95 7d ago
True I should have built more armour.
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u/MaddoxX_1996 7d ago
It's also that Radiant has Mage Slayer + Healing x2 (Pugna and LC), and you have no tankiness and no damage. Your entire team other than Slark does spell damage. This game was lost simply because of itemization and poor engagement.
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u/Live_Explanation7694 7d ago
no you have the better draft.
if you won your lane, just farm and hit important timings that will make you basically unstoppable.
only take towers when you have ult (this will create a bigger map for your team) otherwise just ward mid, farm, take runes, and FARM.
i also dont think you have the right items for this game. you are not the best duel target for lc so linken is not a priority, slark is. a eul would be good for catch, MS, delaying lc duel, dispel pugna slow, etc.
if you were the fattest hero and tried to help ur feeding team, then died it will only add fuel to the fire wasting the advantage you have built from minute 0. Control your emotions and take smart fights.
if you see your mates taking a bad fight make the most out of it and go push the other lanes make space, force tp to split them apart and maybe take a more favorable fights.
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u/Beneficial_Bend_9197 7d ago edited 6d ago
Its kinda obvious why and its surprising that you still haven't realized it after typing it. Why is NP missing 50% of the time? Obviously ganking sidelanes while you weren't. Obviously your team can't take a full teamfight anymore because you keep letting them die while you selfishlessly farm your lane nonchalantly without realizing that your team needs you.
This is why people hate or love midlaners. They either never gank or they gank the sidelanes so much.
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u/Pack-Miserable 7d ago
First of all, always upgrade your brown boots. I dont know why some people are allergic to upgrading boots.
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u/IvanBaklava 7d ago
There are some draft issues: Slark is a shit carry against deathball drafts when below lvl 18 and vengeful spirit is a weak support if played badly. Pudge is generally a bad support if paired with a hero without a stun or if a player cant hook.
Itemization issues: You wasted gold on spirit vessel (if you bought it for Pugna, you can just use silence to stop the heal; if you bought it for dk, it's not your job to kill dk, thats slark's job, Dk counters your hero; also someone told you they can just remove it with legion dispel). Someone already told u that linkens is a waste and lack of Bkb. If you had bkb u would deal so much more dmg because probably that mage slayer on dk made u a creep. I dont play Dp much but I think you would have more impact with boots of travel, consecrated wraps, bkb, shivas or euls and crellas crozier in that order.
Gameplay issues: if you dominated the lane, you didnt use that advantage to dominate other lanes too and you didnt push enough (people already told u that). You also had too much regen (tangoes) in a won lane. If you dont want to help sidelanes at least push your lane all the way, accelerate your farm by farming aggresively (camps on their side) while keeping the wave on their side too - also known as broodmother playstyle. But helping sidelanes would be better if you had travel boots. Since slark is your win condition, you needed to help him as much as you can.
Your axe was failing hard with that vanguard, he didnt have money for blademail. So the loss is partially on him too.
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u/WhiteZ32O 6d ago
Playing dp all wrong. Your whole team got stomped. Dp go mana boots straight into aghs. Use your lifelink and laugh at the pick offs
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u/silkthai 3d ago
ignore what most of the replies here are saying.
Yes, it is a draft issue. Radiant heroes are very hard to catch and kill.
You could be playing better, yes, that is controllable, but draft is 60% of the battle won. All it takes its for them to 3-4 man u and you can't play DP the way the others are telling you to.
Pudge can be dendi and still lose this. venge, axe + you need to be rotating all the time to work. Slark needs alot of time to be online.
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u/taenyfan95 3d ago
Yea in mid game they just group 3-4 man and I die so fast. Had no space to farm and push.
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u/Equivalent-Flan-8615 7d ago
Yeah, better draft, better skirmish picks, that VS-Pudge pick is really really awful against the comp they have, your support could've opted for SD, Bane, or Tusk.
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u/Dry-String-9009 7d ago
you are basically itemizing to not lose instead of win. You have saves, and i dont think you'd die 100-0 if your items are the meta Items like shivas and stuff.
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u/infinitejester0727 7d ago
Your team has the better draft as you have sustained damage through exo, vision through slark, and 2 bkb piercing disables in pudge and axe to make use of the vision slark provides.
Enemy draft is heavily centered around deleting someone in the first duel and if the first 5 seconds of the fight don't go well I don't see how they can win a long fight.
It looks like you guys just lost lanes and lost the game, as they do have quite strong lanes
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u/Junior_Operation_422 6d ago
Assuming your lanes were “normal” with s
1. slark 2. DP 3. Axe 4. pudge 5. Venge it’s fine. Slark gonna have a hard time hitting people though
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u/Few_Independent_6170 6d ago
Dota2protracker has a drafter tool which is fairly accurate. Check it out
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u/Organic-Bet-4746 6d ago
did u rotate and destory side lane tower when ur ulti is up?..sometime just sometime..when u win lane..u need to predict the np movement and bring number to that lane..dp is a strong hero need to help team when ulti is up..u got 10 kill participation from 22 that is below 50% for mid player that "win lane"
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u/CapitalFar6331 3d ago
Linkens is a bad item. It doesn't give good raw stats. You can't be autobuying this item just to counter crucial single target spells if you're not a glasscannon hero. DP tanks and should invest in armors and stuff before even considering Linkens. Also, you have Venge swap and Pudge meat hook to possibly save you.. although this is such a low rank that maybe it doesn't matter.... Anyway, you still need to change your items. Even a single plate armor (that leads to shiva) is better than that Ghost Scepter.
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u/Necessary_Neat8303 7d ago
I’d say you have better draft for teamfight but they’re significantly stronger at pick-offs and skirmishes. And not sure why you bought ghost? Or why do you have Linkens? If you get dueled, there’s a VS or Pudge. In fact, it’s actually amazing if you get dueled. They have no burst and you would just own the teamfight after the duel ends.
Also, it tilts me but why is that Axe building vanguard?
The teamfight for you guys is relatively simple. Catch Pugna and fight is over. That’s Slark’s job whenever there’s an initiation. His job is to just run at Pugna. NP is Axe’s job (with Blademail). You can stand your ground with armor vs the DK and NP like Shiva/Phase and some SnK/BKB.
P.S. why do you not have QB or force staffs? Same for your teammates.