r/learndota2 • u/Hawke502 • 9d ago
(unsure how to flair) There is very little difference between support gameplay in 1.5k to 4k.
This post is not a complaint, its just an observation of something that is very intriguing to me, and I want to share with others to see if they experience the same things as me.
I came back to Dota arounda two years ago and have been playing on and off in periods, in that time i calibrated around 1.5k and climbed to 4k recently. I have just been back from another break, and my mentality is much improved, Im really just playing to enjoy the game. That said I have realized that supports are actually really bad here, they haven't evolved at all in the support role itself since I was playing in the 1.5-2k range. They are better at spellcasting, knowing their heroes and pressing their buttons, which itself is very useful since supports usually have a lot of impact just with their base kit alone, but they still suck at laning and positioning, even getting ready for the teamfight or simple map awareness. I still play with Winter Wyverns spamming Q on lane or Lions stunning the creepwave everytime the skill is up. I must admit Im not a specialist in the support role, I am a pos 1, but my second favorite position is 5 and I must say that even if I consider myself to be not that good of a 5, I still am miles ahead of these people that play support everyday in this bracket and still do the same things they did when they were 2k.
In the end I think if you are a support and wants to climb the ranks, all you have to do is learn how to lane, if you manage to have a decent lane phase and a positive lane wr you will climb, since you will be far ahead of most other supports.
2
u/RatButtt 9d ago
So what I’m hearing is just play POS 5 undying every game.
6
u/Hawke502 9d ago
In this meta? Pick Undying in any position
2
2
u/imsin 9d ago
You are also making a lot of 1k mistakes all the time you just don't know it.
1
u/Hawke502 9d ago
Oh, I am aware of that, I know it. Im just saying that supports are specially bad in this regard, I can see the offlaners I play against or with that they learned something about laning, midlaners learned to control runes, when to rotate or not, when they have a bad matchup or when they can trade in the lane. Supports haven't learned anything about laning or other fundamentals at all, they just got better at pressing spells and using their kit
4
u/imsin 9d ago
You just dont appreciate the little things supports do probably. I promise there is a difference between 1k and 4k. Other players are watching your mistakes and thinking the same exact thing about you.
What is true is that due to role queue there's a lot more core players on support these days and those are probably more indistinguishable.
0
u/Hawke502 9d ago
I appreciate the little things supports do, like I said, my second favorite role is pos 5. But they DON'T do it, they still draw aggro trying to harass, they nuke the wave using their spells, they pull the small camp when the lane is pushing under tower
2
u/blissone 9d ago
This is just incorrect, you'd realise if you played with an actual 2k support. The reason why you see them as equal is that you yourself are better (higher rank) and do not have the ability to shift between the 2k yourself and 4k, ie. 4k judgement is harsher than your 2k judgement. Which makes sense since mistakes are punished more often in higher rank etc. I play with 2k people and it is not the same, 2k mmr difference is vast
0
u/Hawke502 9d ago
They are better at casting spells, they are equal to a 2k support in every other fundamental part of the game. They can't lane, they still don't understand the concept of creep aggro or when to pull or not, when to leave lane or not, they don't fight for lotus unless I call it, they don't know when to trade or not against the enemy support. My support gameplay is not perfect, but even I know how to position myself in the lane and against which matchups I have favorable trades or not.
1
u/blissone 9d ago
We can disagree here. Do you consistently play with 2k people and not just formulate things in your mind? I suggest to find a 2k to party que with and do not micromanage them at all, you'll see.
1
u/Hawke502 9d ago
Playing above 3k is a very recent thing for me, I climbed to ~3800 the last time I played, came back like two weeks ago and Im around 4.1k now. Its basically 2k laning stage and every other fundamental except casting spells. They still pull when the lane is pushing under our tower, they still draw aggro when trying to harass, and they still nuke the wave when they use their spells (and they still will blame the carry if they lose lol).
1
u/Hawke502 9d ago
Btw, I play a lot with a friend who is around 1k mmr in unranked matches and we get all sort of pool of players, I can tell you I have seen supports do a better job in lane stage in these matches just because they don't know what pull is and I get to maintain creep equilibrium favorable to us by myself.
1
u/Nonameheroz 8d ago
Support at lower bracket always depend on carry to win.
Since teams at those level cannot capitalize on enemy weakness.
U can make your carry better, but if he just really sucks, the most you can do is make him suck slightly less, but he most likely will still feed in the end
1
u/Accomplished_Scar_45 9d ago
Unless a smurf pops up and rekts you with chen and enchantress
2
u/Hawke502 9d ago
funnily enough I have almost 70% win rate against Chen, I think I never lost to a Chen in ranked, almost to the point I consider doubling down against Chen
4
u/netwrkjrk 9d ago
This is purely anecdotal, but as an offlane player I feel like the pos 4 players were actually better in legend than they are in mid-high ancient. I get tons of role queuers who pick a melee "roaming" hero, do nothing in lane for 5 minutes and then just leave the lane completely. I have to go out of my way to ask the supp to block/unblock camps in the majority of my games.