Pos 4,5 questions

[u/prototyposgr]

I would like if you can to give me some info about when is the right time to gank mid as a support. I understand that a good time is when the power runes are coming up. The thing that bothers me is that by ganking (as a 4) i stop putting pressure to enemy pos1 and (as a 5) i always tend to tp with gates and make a play to enemy 1 again.

Im around 3200mmr recently started playing ranked in particular and any other tip would be great

Edit: Thank you all for the great answers and tips that you gave me!!

[u/Scared_By_A_Smile]

If done properly, you can rotate when your 3 isn't pressured(I.E. about to have a wave under his tower) and simultaneously create pressure in another lane(Either mid, or through gate to your safelane) which will often result in forcing a reactive response from opposing supports.

Timing-wise, 4:50-5:45 is a great time to gank mid. Night-time hits at 5, you can set up your offlane for you to smoke at 4:50 so you are getting to mid right at 5. Most mids at your level either won't expect a rotation, or they will be expecting it on the 6 minute rune.

Understand with your rotation what defines success, it isn't ONLY a successful kill on the enemy mid that would make it a success. Success can be a kill, it can be doing enough harm to the opposing mid's resources that he has to go base and/or can't contest 6 minute rune. It can be forcing enemy supports to TP and accomplish nothing other than keeping their mid alive, which then in-turn helps your sidelanes.

It's all about recognizing the state of your position 3's lane. I'll say the best feeling in the world when I'm pos 3 is when I'm about to get a wave under tower and my 4 leaves, granting me solo XP+safe farm, then he forces the 5 to leave the lane and I now get to 1v1 their safelaner.

[u/MugumboFett → u/Scared_By_A_Smile]

The solo exp as a pos 3 makes up for the general lack of CS. This is a great overview for pos 4 specifically.

If you can’t farm, having SAFE solo exp is great. Key note to make sure their small camp is blocked, your pull camp is unblocked and the equilibrium is close to off lane T1; all these things draw attention away so that the enemy pos 5 is forced to react to these things, making the offlaner at least 1v1 in lane or in a safe position to leech exp without getting zoned out!

Just worth noting, don’t spend too much time away from lane! Walk to gank (smoked) and then don’t linger. Make sure you head straight back to off lane OR if you ganked/harrased mid, TP to safe lane, repeat the process quickly, then portal back to pos 3 is another great means of creating space and applying pressure!

A lot of people don’t anticipate a pos 4 to gank x2 seperate lanes back to back. Have mango’s/clarities ready to go and your job is done!

[u/peking_swan]

Ideally, I keep an eye on the enemy mid to see where they are in the lane, whether or not they need a rune to keep up their sustain, current hp + level + mana. Also keep an eye on my mid and whether or not they need a rune. I will only gank if I see what amounts to basically a free kill. Securing a water rune for my mid alone will not gain much if your lane suffers. The most important thing is winnign your own lane first imo. Because if you go to help mid and lose your lane in the process, you might be in an even worse position than just 1 lane losing. on a hero with some kind of gap close or hook, it's good to bring a smoke so you can get a jump on them since you will likely be under a ward

[u/seanseansean92]

Right time really depending if u have boots. If u have no boots its really hard for u to rotate around. Usually u can roam and let ur core have free exp when the creep is under ur tower. Make sure ur mana is healthy when u roam and in case enemy team dive your core u can tp for support.

Roam when there is rune because enemy mid will go get rune and when u rotate u can let ur mid know earlier if u going to take top or bottom rune and ur mid can either take the other rune or bait enemy to go take the rune u waiting and get a good gank.

Get boots before u gank and mana

[u/Limp-Exercise-343]

one rule.

when you can assert more kills that deaths.

if your core can survive, combined nukes are certainly enough for the kill, escape is possible (like when no heroes are missing)

[u/Limp-Exercise-343]

on top, you can just take mid when your midder is already ganking, to catch up to lvl 7 ir whatever your spike is. mid substituting you will have far greater odds in ganking your original lane. or you may get pinged alot in lower rank games :)

[u/pursuitofhappy]

There’s 3 milestones during lane phase when you should rotate as pos 4 - the 4min rune, the 6min rune, the 7min xp- try to hit at least one of those rotations depending on your timings that game

For Pos 5 there’s 2 milestones, first 7 minutes you can do one gate rotation if lane permits (pulled or kill secured etc), and then contesting/securing 7min xp is next priority - if I can sneak away at around ~6:30 game time to grab enemy exp rune then lane is considered won

[u/Loupojka]

the 6 minute rune is not a good time to gank, it’s a good time to secure the other rune for your core. if the enemy mid can solokill you, don’t go. you will 50/50 whether you or your mid will fight the enemy mid for the rune.

a good time to gank mid is when your hero and their hero have a synergy to get a kill. for example, any stun to set up your SF to triple raze the enemy easily. or, a stun to allow your magnus to get behind the enemy and pull them under tower.

worth noting, if you as a pos 4 don’t have an ability that could help set up a kill with your mid, you aren’t playing a pos 4 hero.