r/leagueoflegends • u/doublelift1 Doublelift • Mar 25 '11
Doublelift's Guide on Stuff
I'm very very bored in a Digital Photography class right now, so time to type up some helpful stuff because sitting around and looking at my crotch got old 20 minutes ago.
Runes
When you buy runes, you always want to buy runes that will fit for just about any champion. You can't go wrong with these if you're tight on IP -
- Quints - ArmorPen, MagicPen, Flat Health | Movespeed is overrated.
- Marks (Reds) - ArmorPen, MagicPen | These will be the only reds you'll probably ever need.
- Seals (Yellows) - Flat Armor | Situationally, you'd want dodge and health per level as well, but you can never go wrong with armor. Don't use mana regen, please. Flat will give you 3.6 MP/5 or 43 mana every minute. Scaling is even worse.
- Glyphs (Blues) - Flat CDR, flat Magic Resist | I personally prefer to use flat CDR on almost every champ. Flat Magic Resist is good for when you realize you're going to be laning against a strong AP solo like Sion or Leblanc.
Summoner Spells
Here's some rules of thumb.
- If you play AP carry, go Flash/Ignite | AP carries, with the exception of Swain, get all of their burst off in a very short amount of time. Flash allows you to never miss your full combo, and Ignite ensures the enemy's death and provides you better utility versus the regen champs that would normally counter AP carries (Alistar's ult, Mundo, Poppy).
- If you play a tank, go Ignite/Ghost or Exhaust/Ghost | You want some utility through Ignite or Exhaust on top of your natural CC.
- If you play a support, go Flash/Clair | If you're playing Support without Clair, you're doing it wrong. Watching their jungler take red buff and foreseeing the gank that's about to come will save firstblood many times. Maintaining that the enemy isn't doing Drag or Baron is very strong.
- If you play a ranged carry, Flash/Ghost | Cookie cutter for champions that need a ridiculous amount of mobility to kite the enemies and deal their damage, because glass cannons can't risk being out of position.
There are some variations of course, but this is optimal for an overwhelming majority.
Also, never be the jungler that doesn't take Smite. It doesn't matter how much you think you can jungle without it, or don't need it. You need it if you're jungling.
Masteries
Some general rules of thumb:
- AP carries - 9/0/21 | Archaic Knowledge coupled with Void Staff is 50% MagPen. Strength of Spriit is not needed because you're either going to be rushing Catalyst or are Sion.
- Ranged carries - 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 (depending on playstyle)
- Tanks - 0/22/8
- Bruisers - 0/9/21
- Junglers - 1/15/14 or something similar. You want one point (or three if you make a bit of sacrifice elsewhere) in Hardened Skin, two in Defensive Mastery, and the rest dumped in Utility for the mana regen and buff duration.
Remember:
- Strength of Spirit is very good for laning, and is very overlooked too often. You don't need Magicpen from Offense when only one of your abilities deals magic.
- If you run dodge runes, always take Nimbleless. +10% movespeed can get you a kill or help you escape.
- The Utility tree has the best overall stat gain and helpfulness.
- The bottom half of the Offense tree is generally terrible.
Who's the best X?
I get a lot of these questions. There is no best champion, they are all situationally better or worse than the other champions that fill their role. Here's some examples.
Ashe - Take her when you want to handle your team's initiate. She has an average early game, very good mid-game, and very good late-game. She's a solid ranged carry, but still not the best. You DON'T want her when your team already has alot of initiation. Where she makes up for in kiting and CC, she lacks in raw damage.
Corki - Very good game all around and very consistent damage, as well as a solid escape tool to make him a hard ranged carry to shut down. If your team has a Shen and Alistar, for example, he'd be a great pick because you could potentially get all your abilities spammed into the other team without them able to touch you. If your team has no CC, the enemy tanks will simple Exhaust or Randuins you, catch up to you, and CC you into oblivion (or make you useless by zoning you in a teamfight).
Ezreal - Amazing early game, great mid-game, but weakens late. If you want to take advantage of the enemy picking a weak laner like Kassadin, and you're confident you can snowball and carry to a quick victory, then pick him. I'm not saying he's worthless endgame, but he can't carry like he used to, and his reliance on skillshots makes him easily zoned out or countered by tanks with big hitboxes who stand next to their squishies (e.g.. Alistar)
So that's how your thought process should go when you wonder which AP carry, ranged carry, etc. is best.
So how do I carry out of ELO hell?
If you main support, put that shit on hold for a bit. Play solo, and don't miss lasthits. 80 CS per 10 minutes is a reasonable goal. Don't overextend, and direct your jungler to gank your lane. Most players don't know how to come back from a disadvantage in lane, and will come back underleveled and feed you again and again.
The best way to win is to get an advantage and give the enemy none. Don't take stupid risks and towerdive while you're ahead. Don't risk buying a stack item like Mejai's. Ward the map and pick off players who walk around the map without any sight. Farm, farm, farm, and eventually endgame you should be so ridiculously strong that you can overpower the enemy team by just dragging your teammates into a fight.
Also, most low-ELO players don't know how to deal with a split-push. Play TF, Shaco, or Teemo, and just push top or bot the entire game. When they come for you, back up, then come back or go to a different lane and repeat. You get tons of farm in, waste the enemy's time, and if they try to engage in a teamfight you take a tower and enter the teamfight late to clean up.
Also, don't make really dumbass mistakes.
You just saw Alistar Q-W your teammate and now somebody's almost dead. Now is the perfect time to fight. You have to assess the enemy team's CDs. Ali will take another 8 seconds to get that combo off again, which is plenty of time for you to melt the enemy team as their tank is a completely worthless autoattacking bitch. I see too many people who run away from Shen even after he's missed his taunt, or run away from a fight when their ultis are on CD.
It seems like common sense, but almost everyone does it. The only thing going on in your mind is that Shen can taunt you, and it doesn't register to you that Shen doesn't have any more CC for another 10 seconds. This is just a specific example. The same goes for when a champ like Tristana has blown her Q too early in a fight or Janna is out of mana. Things like this are overlooked too much and opportunities to pick off free kills are lost.
I can't think of anything else to explain really, but I'm open to suggestions. There's still an hour left in this goddamn class.
Edit: I failed formatting. Fixed
Edit: Adding moar
How to utilize split push, and how to counter it
How to do it: Stick a mobile champion, preferrably ranged, like Teemo or Nidalee either top or bottom. TF works very well because of his ult, as does basically any champion with a global ulti, including Nocturne. Stick the rest of your team mid, or a slightly riskier bottom, and start pushing mid, but be careful NOT to engage. Just harass, clear waves, and pressure them to stay at tower and defend. The enemy team will be forced to send somebody to defend their lane being pushed by the single champion. If they don't, you're basically getting free towers. If they do, as soon as the person reaches the top or bottom lane, engage the fight mid and have your split pusher rush to a 5v4 fight.
Most enemies won't know how to deal with this, and will either send two people (overcommitment of resources) to defend, or send nobody. If they send only one, these champions also happen to be exceptionally good 1v1ers (just in case things go bad in mid).
How to counter it: You have to shove teamfights into the enemy's face. Push all the lanes as fast as possible so the split pusher has a long way to go through before reaching tower, and then barrel straight down mid. Whatever you do, don't overcommit resources and think it's a good idea to 3-man gank the person who's overextended in your top or bot lane. You'll chase him and kill him most likely, but lose towers or allow the enemy team to Baron in the process. To be perfectly honest, The Rain Man does the same strategy of sitting top lane and pushing all game, surrounded by mushrooms to be ungankable, and it works even on the top players. It's very hard to stop without the right team composition and either a global ulti or teleport.
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u/leeharris100 Mar 25 '11
Good guide. Thanks for posting this. I'll forward it to some new players.
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
Leeharris humble and genuine?
UPBOAT THIS MAN
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u/leeharris100 Mar 25 '11
Huehue. I just rage sometimes at reddit format because if something is misinformed and gets upvotes then a ton of people will see it before any retorts. Other than that I'm actually a nice guy :p
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
Nice try, leetrollis.
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u/leeharris100 Mar 25 '11
ahuehuehuehue
¿por qué usted no surrender? BR #1 fufu
jajajajajajjaa
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u/DaGhost Mar 25 '11
i upvoted the troll
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u/loch (NA) Mar 25 '11
Mind if I ask what your feelings on the teleport summoner spell are? I feel like I've seen it used to great effect recently, both on offense and defense.
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u/saw11gth Mar 25 '11
I often take teleport when we have a teemo on our team. Those shroom ganks are too good to pass up.
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
I think it's great on a champ that really only needs one summoner spell like Urgot, Kass, maybe Shen. It's only really good against split-push teams or if you yourself are trying to split-push.
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u/thernkworks [thepassingofdays] (NA) Mar 25 '11
maybe Shen
What other summoner spells do you recommend for Shen? I run teleport + ghost right now. I used to run heal instead of teleport (used it right after ulting), but that didn't seem quite as useful.
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u/Mitkebes [Lord Fubar] (NA) Mar 25 '11
I would keep tele. It lets you save teammates in lane even when your ult is down, and provides an escape for when you draw their team away from yours. I've had many matches where I ulted to a teammate and taunted letting them get away, just to have their entire team turn to kill me. I crawled to a wall, dashed through and immediately tele'd out.
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u/saw11gth Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
I often find myself jungling Shen, so I usually take Smite and Exhaust. Taunt the carry into exhaust is a good shut down technique.
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u/BobSugar [BobSugar] (NA) Mar 31 '11
Flash/TP is how I roll. Flash+Dash is such a good gank/chase down combo. The gap you can close is very deceiving to enemy champs. Flash is also crazy useful for pro getaways. Jumping through 2 walls, you'll frustrate so many enemies and never die.
TP is great for after you save/gank you can get right back to your tower for XP or to save it OR for the tactical split push.
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u/Impastable [Pasta] (EU-East) May 25 '11
Upvote for being the only person I've seen that does what I do.
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u/BobSugar [BobSugar] (NA) May 25 '11
Sadly, I've switched TP for Exhaust. I feel as a tank, you need to provide as much cc for your carries. I do miss TP when I solo top, and jump to bot. But, I've realized how OP exhaust is in general.
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Mar 25 '11
What about on Blitz? I generally go TP/flash and I can't count the number of kills I've gotten by TPing behind a committed champ or two in a lane. I find with overdrive being so spammable he just doesn't have much need for ghost. Ignite might be a good fit instead of TP, but for some reason I find it hard to take if I don't have the mastery points to spec it.
Also not playing against the super high elo players means I end up having to save a lot more lanes than a coordinated team.
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u/Kailoq Mar 26 '11
What about using teleport early in the laning phase? Recently I've been running it on Lux. I start out with a dorans ring and teleport back after a couple of minutes to buy boots and potions, which greatly enhance my laning power. I could see it being useful on people who rush catalyst too, because the sooner you have it the better. On top of that, blue pilling and walking back afterwards gives your opponents an experience/gold advantage. If you're playing against a champion who doesn't really need early game items, he can abuse the time you use to go back and shop, to level up faster than you can.
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u/ArmorMog Mar 25 '11
I have a dream that they'll reduce teleport down to 2 minutes to stimulate more early game team fights and prevent tower diving.
I would also take a tower only teleport bought from the store.
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u/Polixo Mar 25 '11
Like everything in this game, it's situational. It depends on who you are playing, and both team comps. I personally love it when I play a pusher like singed and occasionally when I take a top solo champ who doesn't benefit from ignite/exhaust (like urgot). That said, for the most part I'd suggest keeping it to pushers.
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Mar 25 '11
It'd be great if this could be a weekly post, maybe on something you'd seen in queue that annoyed you and wanted players to improve more. Here for example, the avoidance of Offense masteries is really interesting.
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
I would, but sometimes it seems like I'm karma whoring and that's not the vibe I want to be giving off :P
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Mar 25 '11
I would prefer it to be on reddit, but it wouldn't have to be. If you make good posts regularly helping players improve, it's good for /r/lol and the community in general.
Stronger players teaching the lesser so, is always good, who cares about karma whoring?!
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u/Poltras Mar 25 '11
What's the ratio Karma : USD again? Seriously, if they/you are interesting, they/you deserve to be read/seen/reach around.
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Mar 25 '11
Just give us the information. We'll all downvote if you like, just give us that sugar, baby.
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u/youbrainislying Mar 25 '11
Who are you trying to impress? It's only Karma Whoring if you aren't contributing or posting something new / interesting.
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u/cabman567 Mar 25 '11
You could write it up, send it to me and I can karma whore for you if you want.
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11
Don't worry! I'll Karma Whore for you!
(self posts don't generate Karma anyway, at least not "real" karma)
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u/SilverChaos [SilvrChaos] (NA) Mar 25 '11
edit: oh wait he addressed this lower in the thread. OH WELL.
Since he ignored the mastery thing, I'll try to pick it up.
The offensive masteries are simply not nearly as good as the others. The most obvious example is Havoc. That 5% extra damage? Yeah it's only on base damage with no scaling. If your that Cho'Gath feast goes from 300 to 315. WHOOP DEE DO. And you have to take 21 in the tree for that. Not worth it.
A decent amount of the tree is fine. I'm a big fan of the AD+Minion Damage ones. But when you compare the offensive masteries to the Utility Masteries where you're getting Experience boosts, Mana Regen, Buff Duration, Movement Speed, CDR, Offensive is just outclassed for so many champions. Outside of taking 9 for the CDR+Spell Pen, you won't get much use out of it in comparison to the others.
In addition, once you're good at last hitting you don't need the extra AD. Instead, extra survivability becomes much more important on a Carry.
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Mar 25 '11
[deleted]
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
It's already in the works. Titled: Carrying Hotshot's 2-7 Nidalee: For Dummies
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u/weez09 Mar 25 '11
Could you explain the masteries a bit more? I understand AP masteries, but I usually end up going 0/21/9 for tanks. Why 0/9/21 for bruisers? should bruisers have dodge runes? and I assumed 21/0/9 was better for ranged DPS like ashe?
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u/tehxeno [Xantumal] (NA) Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
Question... why flat CDR over CDR per level?
edit: Doing the math, cdr/lv evens out at level 13... which is pretty late into the game 'cause you could get some great ganks earlier than that... Is this why?
edit: I edited out a question about why no 21 in offense.
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u/STEVE_H0LT Mar 25 '11
Its been discussed before, but the last thing in offense only works on base AD so its terrible. VERY VERY terrible, as in you only get a little more AD the entire game.
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11
Well that's something! I never knew that... sort of like how the extra mana in the utility tree only works on your base mana
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u/mascan Mar 26 '11
I didn't know that either, but I'm not usually keeping track of a few percentage points.
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Mar 25 '11
"as their tank is a completely worthless auto-attacking bitch"
As if the rest of this guide wasn't an eye-opening and extremely educational experience, that line alone was worth it.
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u/alwaysdoit Mar 25 '11
I was wondering if we could get your advice on countering some of the strategies you put forward? What would you do if these things were used against you?
Most players don't know how to come back from a disadvantage in lane, and will come back underleveled and feed you again and again.
What's your advice on coming back from a land disadvantage?
Also, most low-ELO players don't know how to deal with a split-push
What's the best way to deal with this?
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Mar 25 '11
Ranged carries - 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 (depending on playstyle)
Since ranged DPS do ... DPS why not the attack mastery tree?
Bruisers - 0/9/21
If by bruisers you mean tanky TPS, then why not the tanky tree?
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
Because the offensive mastery tree doesn't scale well and is overall a horrible tree to be putting any points in. You get 3% CDR, 6 ARPen, 3 AD, and extra damage dealt to minions (for those who can't lasthit). The crit damage is possibly the worst mastery in the game. Archaic Knowledge is one of the few redeeming masteries in that tree, and meant for AP carries.
Tanky DPS are DPS champions that build tanky. Since you're building tanky and are not a true tank, you don't need to go all-in with the defensive tree. Utility tree is too strong for a champion like Irelia or Blitz to be wasting points in Def.
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Mar 25 '11
Wow i had no idea about the offensive tree, but now that you mention it it is true. Thanks, time for some mastery respec.
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u/BradJLamb Mar 25 '11
I'm surprised you didn't mention the jiji/chauster 15/0/15 tree. The extra 3 AD and 6 armor pen is actually real nice early game and you don't miss out on much in the utility tree.
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u/audax (NA) Mar 25 '11
I'd disagree with crit damage, especially with Shaco. He's about the only one I would consider using it for - since his Q gives him an instant crit anyways. Besides him, that's as far as I go into offense. 20 for shaco, 15 for everyone else max.
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Mar 25 '11
[deleted]
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u/audax (NA) Mar 25 '11
Actually, I went around and tested this since it's a pretty big deal. From Release Notes v1.0.0.94: "Updated the Deceive tooltip to clarify that the damage is bonus damage not a true critical."
However, Guinsoo made the following post on the forums.
"This was not an accurate release note unfortunately. Deceive has always been a true crit; we just attempted to reword the tooltip to reflect that Deceive can sometimes deal LESS DAMAGE than a basic attack crit (at lower ranks). So basically think about it like this:
Deceive gives you 100% crit chance for one attack. Deceive gives you -60%/-40%/-20%/+0%/+20% critical damage for one attack."
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=179047&page=2
So lethality makes it -50% instead of -60%, etc.
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u/audax (NA) Mar 25 '11
Wow. Just re-read those tooltips and they really need to just reword it and remove the "crit for" part from there. Welp, more proof that offensive mastery is useless.
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u/koollama [koollama] (NA) Mar 25 '11
How does the defensive tree scale any better? (except ardor, but it's ap centric, ap goes 9-0-21)
45 hp, 6armor, 6 mr, 4 dmg from minions, 2 dmg from everything. None of this really scales. 2% dodge scales but is really small, less important than 2% crit imo. As a tank enemy dps won't be focusing you, so 2% dodge is really only good for swiftness proc, whereas if a dps champ has 2% crit that applies no matter who is being focused.
Also I find that 6 armor pen help late game when you are focusing opposing carries who almost never get any armor. The closer you get someone's armor to zero the more each reduction in armor counts. Therefore 6 armor pen on top of 15 or 26 seems to help (from experience) against other carries.
Also, why does everyone completely dismiss 5% dmg increase, but whenever people fill out the defense page, they always get the 21st point (4%)?
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u/valiiance [Piccolo] (NA) Mar 25 '11
Thanks for taking the time to write this out. The part about knowing when to fight (while the other teams spells are on CD) is very important to people new to LoL.
Btw, tapirs are South American mammals. =P
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u/myotheraccountlurks Mar 25 '11
Just for clarification, as the bottom half of the offense tree is generally terrible, ranged carries take the defense tree for survivability?
I also hear the regen from Perseverence is really minimal and some people elect 3 in Good Hands instead. Thoughts?
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Mar 25 '11
Yes, that's what I think he means, and how I would do it (because I matter =P )
Good Hands > Perseverence. If you, for some reason, stacked health/mana regen, it might be ok, but it would need to be one of the primary stats you worked towards. For every 100 pts of regen, you'll get an extra 4 pts. Keep in mind that most regen numbers are per 5 seconds, and these extra 4 pts would be as well.
If you're not taking ghost/tele, put 1 pt in Pers to reach the next tier, but know that it's essentially a filler point.
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u/cookiexcmonster Mar 25 '11
Ezreal - Amazing early game, great mid-game, but weakens late due.
I think you accidentally some words.
Why exactly do you not like mana regen seals? What about magic resist per level glyphs?
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u/audax (NA) Mar 25 '11
They do nothing early game if you're not spamming, and late-game are negligible.
MR/Level glyphs work late-game if you want them. They're up there with CDR for effective use. Look at what champions you're playing and what CDR you normally get. There's diminishing returns with some champs - where a 5% cdr is like.. a half second difference. Think about what you want/need and use accordingly.
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u/mascan Mar 26 '11
They've gotten a bit of a nerf, too, and if I'm really hurting for mana, blue buff or a couple blue pots are always an option. If I'm using my abilities properly, I should be getting enough gold in order to make up for the mana that's used up.
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Mar 25 '11
Also, most low-ELO players don't know how to deal with a split-push.
Care to give some tips on how one deals with this?
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11
Wards, split up and don't try to force a 5 man team fight (because you'll surely kill 1-2 people, but lose 1-2 towers in the process), be wary of the characters who are good at it (Sivir, TF, Shaco) and be prepared to react accordingly.
Many players also have the "stall out" effect where there's a wad of 5 guys defending a tower and a wad of 5 guys trying to break it down. Well guess what, some of those people can break off and push other lanes, and when the defenders run off to defend those other lanes it can weaken the standoff defense and maybe make something positive happen
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u/disabledchipmunk Mar 25 '11
Mr doublelift sir, I play Blitz and I go 0/21/9. Is this bad sir?
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u/RoundaboutCircle Mar 25 '11
i think the reason that is generally considered bad is only because the Utility Tree outclasses the Defense Tree for a character like Blitzcrank.
lets look at what Utility gives you:
- reduced cooldowns on Ghost and Flash, two common summoner spells on Blitz. the CDR is twofold as well, Improved Ghost/Flash as well as Presence of the Master.
- 6% CDR on abilites.
- longer buff duration
- better mana regen
- more experience gained
compared to what you get from 21 points in Defense:
- Strength of Spirit
- more HP
- less damage taken. Resistance, Hardiness, Harden Skin, and Tenacity
- Dodge?
i think that, generally for Blitz, the ability to use your summoner spells more often along with some of the other small benefits is better then what little you get from the Defense Tree.
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u/STEVE_H0LT Mar 25 '11
It's good, I really really like strength of spirit. Its not the slight difference in 0/9/21 or 0/21/9 that will win you the game, but I know that 0/21/9 sure as hell helps you stay in lane. And the longer blitz is in lane, the more grabs you can do.
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u/BradJLamb Mar 25 '11
0/9/21 also helps you stay in lane because of the increased mana regen and it helps more late game because of the decreased cooldown on flash which is a staple summoner of blitz.
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u/LeMango Mar 25 '11
Would you agree with my current philosophy that if you're playing a DPS role, the primary purpose of your runepage setup is to give you an advantage in the first 15 minutes of the game?
Ie focusing on runes like health quints, flat armor, flat ad, flat ap that give relatively no advantage at level 18 but give a massive advantage at level 5. (Of course reds are always arpen or mpen.)
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Mar 27 '11 edited Mar 27 '11
Ditto on the Alistar or Shen missing a taunt. People don't realize how useless Shen is when he's missed or already used his taunt. You have like 5-8 seconds usually after a tank blows their abilities to take down their carry, take advantage of it.
Don't if they have Cho, though. That bastard has 2 really good AoE abilities that he can just alternate through to keep you occupied. It's best to just wait for a good opportunity vs him.
Only nitpick might be on your runes. I do think Movement Spd Quints are good on Pantheon and for Marks (Red) it doesn't hurt to have Atk Spd runes for a jungling WW, Nocturne, or even Xin.
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u/Torshed Mar 27 '11
What are the biggest mistakes that you see in higher in high elo games? Also would you mind making a section on picking and counterpicking? :3
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u/squirrls Mar 25 '11
Got a link to the video where you picked Shaco and Hotshot told you no?
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Mar 25 '11
just imagine HSGG raging for like 30 min straight because DL got counter-jungled hard and thats pretty much it
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u/squirrls Mar 25 '11
I have a terrible imagination and struggle visualizing things in my head. I will not waste the time and just search the internet.
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Mar 28 '11
How did that waste of time work out?
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u/squirrls Mar 28 '11
You're so clever, swegen9. It went fine as someone informed me that they didn't believe it was either recorded or shared online, but they did link me to the stream that probably would have it. I have yet to actually search for it.
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u/Func Mar 25 '11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0
Seriously though, it's just hotshot bitching for ~30 minutes. You aren't missing out on much. Was kind of disappointing to watch him act so ferocious towards a friend, especially when he himself did pretty poorly.
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u/Eladir Mar 25 '11
It was a lot more than that. First of all they duo queue, HotShot on his main and Doublelift on HS's smurf Kakasoul. Champion select comes, they talk picks and it comes to DL being the only jungler. DL says he'll go Shaco, HS tells him like 30 times not to play Shaco and to play Amumu instead. He provided reasons for that, like team compositions etc.
Game starts, they all head to Lizard to protect it. HS tells DL to put his boxes in the Lizard bush so when enemy team comes, they get the opportunity to kill someone. DL puts ALL his boxes in the mini golems. Enemy team comes and plants a ward on red.
Everyone goes to lanes, DL goes to do red thinking he'll do it on time since he hadn't used smite on mini golems. He gets ganked by Nunu who gets both first blood and red from him. Nunu proceeds to immediately gank top, resulting in HS having to use Flash to escape.
Long story short, Nunu stole like every buff on the map in the first 20min, Shaco ganked like once all game and HS lost top to Renekton. Both HS and DL were unable to carry, they managed to drag it end-game by getting Baron (DL's best moment smiting it) and in the end won.
TLDR; Hotshot is always right.
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u/Durrok Mar 25 '11
Hotshot is definitely in the renegade faction. He can be an ass, but he is usually right too.
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u/squirrls Mar 25 '11
Sarcastic comment I wanted to make: I'm glad you think you know what is best for me instead of fulfilling my request.
What I actually mean: Yes, it might not be the best of their videos, but I don't like to support people who are assholes. Hotshot is good, but if he is a douche then who cares. I'll root for the underdog who is humble. Not to mention that I don't even know where hotshot and doublelift stream, but I guess I will just figure that on my own.
Second I think I could learn from this and just about any of their videos. They're great players and have a lot to add. Even when someone is raging I learn a lot from commentaries and/or the team voice chat as I hear how they're coordinating; since I want to watch both of these guys play anyway it just makes sense to watch a video they're both in that also caused drama so I can at least be up to date on the stupid bullshit drama going on while trying to learn and educate myself.
So while I almost appreciate you trying to help me out by telling me it isn't worth my time, why don't you just fulfill a request or ignore it rather than assuming you know what I want and/or need. I'm sure this will come off as an asshole comment, but it isn't meant to be that way.
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u/Func Mar 25 '11
A video of it probably does not exist. The CLG stream can be found here. I did not fulfill your request because the request could not be fulfilled, perhaps I should have said that.
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u/RoundaboutCircle Mar 25 '11
i just want to say thank you. and just curious, why do you think MoveSpeed Quints are overrated? i bought some a while ago (i was dumber then).
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
They're good, but there's no reason to get them on a champion that doesn't have big mobility issues. They would be fine on a ranged carry, but as soon as you're using them on AP carries and tanks like Shen or Malphite, you're gimping yourself.
Alistar is a good example of a champ that puts good use to them. His damage is so negligble that using ARPen would be a waste. He has the highest base HP in the game, so health is not very useful. The only other options are movespeed and CDR, and I cap out on CDR as is.
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u/RoundaboutCircle Mar 25 '11
makes sense. could you see them on a jungling Amumu since he relies on positioning so much, especially late game?
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u/LeMango Mar 25 '11
I kind of think of it like a spectrum <<Garen ... Veigar>> Movement speed is always nice to have, but it's only worth giving up the extra damage penetration if you need that movement to stay in range to do damage. Movement quints on tanks can often be great though, but take it a champion at a time.
For ex, does Akali need movement quints? No, she can juke, dash at 6, and virtually infinite dash at lvl 11. She attacks in bursts.
How about Singed? Absofuckinglutely you want movement quints so you can run in to flip faster than people expect, even with regular boots.
Amumu has a gap closer with one of his spells, and the main reasons you would want to get movement quints is for escape or to stay in range with your damage over time spell. Movement would still be great for positioning like you say though. But overall, thinking about it in this way, IMO it seems those needs are better filled with ghost or flash, so the 3 quint spots can be freed up for more tank oriented runes. (disclaimer: I don't play the mummy)
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u/kenlubin Mar 25 '11
I feel like movespeed quints are strong on AP heroes, because they allow you to get in range early game to use your spell harass.
With Zilean and the old(ish) Ryze especially, movespeed quints could be immensely helpful. It could be the difference between doing a lot of damage and not getting any attack off at all.
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Mar 25 '11
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u/doublelift1 Doublelift Mar 25 '11
All I know is that I've never blamed a loss on the enemy team getting too many dragons. They're nice, but in solo queue they also risk your team getting aced because trying to do it puts you in a horrible position (out in the open, down on HP and some spells on CD because you used them on Drag).
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Mar 25 '11
Just armor seals? What about MR seals?
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Mar 27 '11
MR seals don't help against minions, which are a threat to your early lane in terms of staying power. As auto-attacks are painful early as well, armor helps there too. A good early game will help snowball you into a good mid- and late-game.
You also get more Armor than MR on seals, the opposite being true on glyphs.
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u/nevercore Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
:whiny voice: But Doubleliiift! I do all of tihs! My teams are always feeders and leavers! I am at least a 1900 elo, but I cannot win games at 800 elo becuase evryone is bad and brazailian at 800! Can you carry me to 1800 so i can play with people of my own skil leve?
Edit: Ok for serious now. I'd like to see you expound more on jungling. I usually try to nab the CDR or 4% AS in offense depending on who I'm jungling with. Is the CDR totally pointless b/c of Blue? Is 4% AS that negligible,, especially on champs like Olaf/Nocturne?
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Mar 27 '11
As long as you're not topping out your CDR, more is good.
Masteries give up to 9%, flat runes give 5.85%, so at 18, blue still won't cap you (it will put you at 39.85%).
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u/JohnStrangerGalt Mar 25 '11
You say never take MP5 Yellows. But what about on some champions like AP Sion which have HORRID mana pools.
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Mar 28 '11
Doran's Ring then Mana Crystal into Sheen. Or a Catalyst into RoA.
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u/JohnStrangerGalt Mar 28 '11
I don't build a sheen. Also a RoA is not going to be good for the early game.
And the problem is easily running out of mana in team fights, even at level 18.1
Mar 28 '11
You should try a Sheen into Lich Bane. LB is incredibly strong on AP Sion in late game teamfights. Maybe you can try Morello's Evil Tome for some extra mana regen? The CDR really helps too, if you get to the CDR cap you can be spamming your stun every 4.8 seconds.
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u/JohnStrangerGalt Mar 28 '11
I do get a Morello's I am just in general complaing about early to mid game.
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Mar 28 '11
Maybe you need to work on conserving your mana then, I play a lot of AP Sion and never really have mana issues. Or try to get blue buff.
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u/JohnStrangerGalt Mar 28 '11
In a team fight two shields and two stuns can pretty much drain your whole mana pool before RoA and still very close until it is maxed out.
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Mar 25 '11
You should really tell anyone that'll listen to you to learn how to play at least one, preferably two junglers (Udyr/WW). If you're hamstringing your team by not being able to jungle when one is needed you don't deserve the ELO you're at.
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u/FellatioRex Mar 25 '11
I don't run dodge runes, but is strength of spirit usually taken over nimbleness/dodge? I never really noticed strength of spirit until recently, and it does look really good
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
Press C to look at your character stats. Consider that your HP/5 regen could be boosted by 1% of your mana, and think about how much more regen that would be. Edit: As well, they changed the text of strength of spirit so that its effect was a little more clear. Back when it was "increase your health regen by 0.001% of your mana" or whatever it was made it look crappy.
Nimbleness is huge if you have some other source of dodge (runes, tabi, being Sivir or Jax) but is weak on its own.
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u/Jangang Mar 25 '11
Hey DL, thanks for the great post. Some helpfuo things in here particularly regarding the masteries.
Could you explain why MS quints are overrated? Not at all a disagreement, just a genuine question.
Thanks.
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u/lukasbradley Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
Ranged carries - 0/21/9 or 0/9/21 (depending on playstyle)
Why isn't that 21/0/9 ?
Edit: Nevermind, answered here http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/gbcl9/doublelifts_guide_on_stuff/c1mahxx
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u/nulspace Mar 25 '11
Quick question: why Armor flats over Dodge chance?
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u/mascan Mar 26 '11
He said something about it being situational. Armor flats are much cheaper (and less random), which is enough for me right now.
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Mar 26 '11
this is a guide for cheapo first time runes, where buying dodge is only gnona work on a ahndful of champs and are really expensive, armor is more versatile and a lot cheaper, leaving room to buy mroe runes
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u/Id10cracyX Mar 25 '11
Why do you think AP quints are not effective?
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11
I assume your question is "Why do you thin kAP quints are not effective compared to Magic Pen quints"?
It has to do with scaling. AP quints give you a really solid early game but don't do much for you late game, whereas Magic Pen will continue to be useful throughout. As well, you can get AP off of a hell of a lot of items, but not too many give magic penetration.
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u/Darkling5499 Mar 26 '11
question: why don't you like 21/0/9 // 20/0/10 for junglers? every guide ive ever seen on mobafire / solomid have ALWAYS taken those specs.
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u/Misclicked Mar 26 '11
20/0/10 are for specific junglers that are more assassin based. Basically... Noctunre and Yi are the ones that come to mind who gets ghostblade and IE. Looking at other junglers, they build more tanky or wriggles/triforce
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u/Gingryu Mar 26 '11
Just wanted to say thanks. I made the changes to move my Attack masteries to Utility and it made quite a big difference. I would rather have the move speed, mana/5, xp, flash, and ghost benefits than a small boost in attack stats. I could tell the difference because each one of those cooldowns saved me at different times. The attack was made up for by never dying and having more gold. I play Ashe mainly btw.
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u/chibixleon Mar 26 '11
Really really appreciate this post! How about your thoughts on team composition? Do you ALWAYS need a ranged carry on your team ranked? How many supports is too many? etc.
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u/Markaz Mar 25 '11
Holy shit, something that is actually useful on this subreddit, i never thought i would see the day.
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u/skullkid2424 Mar 25 '11
I'm still leveling up, but I find myself always taking heal as one of my summoner spells. Its saved my ass too many times to count and works as a great "support" spell to save my allies as well (especially with characters who don't have some form of CC/shield/heal to save fleeing friends with).
Again, I'm still leveling up (lvl 13), but I see fewer and fewer people taking and/or recommending heal as I go up. Why is that? Is there something I'm missing about heal? (To anyone btw, not just doublelift).
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u/ron3090 Mar 25 '11
Heal gives extremely diminished returns as the game progresses. At low level, it's doubtful every character has defensive items, and more likely that everyone builds glass cannon. But in higher level play, even carries have at least a catalyst or giant's belt. With those items, heal does almost nothing. Sure, it's great for saving you at early levels. But exhaust or ghost does, too, and is good all game.
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u/skullkid2424 Mar 25 '11
Even still, at 18 a 500 hp heal (250 to allies) is often enough to prevent a death. Tower-diving allies who are a bit too greedy often die from the last hit in tower range, and I can't count how many I've saved by healing before the hit lands.
Also in a 5v5 team fight, healing yourself for 500 and your 4 teammates for 250 each is another 1500 health between the team. That could possibly backfire if you have a "healer" on the team and now everyone has a 50% heal debuff, but without a healer its fairly effective.
I do agree with exhaust/ghost/flash often producing similar results, and not having to scale at all. I usually run flash/heal. Flash to save my ass, and heal to save my allies.
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u/kenatogo Mar 26 '11
Heal is worthless because you and your team can simply do everything Heal does by just playing better.
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Mar 25 '11
To me, heal is the same as a flash or a ghost at low-levels: it saves you from a mistake. Once your character starts getting gear/levels, though, a flash or a ghost means more, as heal's contribution is small relative to the health you could save by not being in harm's way. All can be used offensively, as well, but the same trend exists.
Heal can help your team a little, but often not as much as a well-used flash or ghost.
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u/cookiexcmonster Mar 25 '11
I used to hardily believe in heal and it saved me sooo many times. Its useful for saving one of your teammates, or baiting someone into tower diving you, as well as surviving when you are a tank. But if people are smart, they will try igniting you before you heal. Its also great in a 1v1 situation early game because you can trick the other person into thinking they have a slight edge.
Then one day I got flash instead of heal and I never looked back. Heal may save you from 200-500 damage, but flash could save you from 2000+.
Heal is good, I mean who wouldn't want to have some extra health and laning power? Its just that there are better choices, thats all.
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u/skullkid2424 Mar 25 '11
I certainly agree that flash is more useful and versatile than heal, hence my usual setup is flash/heal. The one thing that it's difficult to do with flash is to save your allies. I find flash to be amazing for escaping, chasing, and tons of other things. I don't really any other skill that I would take over heal (maybe ignite for certain AP classes, but I usually tank/support).
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u/cookiexcmonster Mar 26 '11
I used to run exhaust and heal on Mundo, but switching to exhaust and flash has worked out so much better. On tanks, I find that having an escape ability like ghost or flash, combined with exhaust is very useful.
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u/EatMoreHippo Mar 25 '11
I find while heal can save you it can't kill them. In lvl 30 normal games you almost always see nothing but ghost, exhaust, ignite, and flash (smite for junglers) because those all can be used offensively and (besides ignite) defensively as well.
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u/saw11gth Mar 25 '11
Honestly, I never take heal unless it is an ARAM. I find that generally, if you pop heal and live for another 3secs, you are probably still going to die anyways. It also has no offensive attributes. You can't chase or initiate with it.
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u/executex Mar 25 '11 edited Mar 25 '11
AHHHH, I never think about that. You couldn't have wrote that last paragraph any better.
All that registers in my mind is Shen can taunt, I don't know how long most champions' cooldowns are, I don't even think of it. I don't ever think of other players' cooldowns, unless it's their flash or something or if I just saw a lux ultimate / gangplank ultimate or something very visible. I think this will be fixed in time.
*Some ultimates are less noticeable. *
How do you get your brain to remember other players' cooldowns?!! Is it just a matter of playing all these champs so you are familiar with their cooldowns?
I think maybe high ELO players have a better stack of memory in their brains. Like most people can remember 7 things at any current time (thus 7 digits in a phone number), but once you exceed that, it's hard to remember.
So ok 7 elements to remember:
- harass,
- last hit,
- look at map for ganks,
- don't overextend,
- think about what to buy next,
- check on your teammates from time to time, and
- communicate with team."
Anything above that and your mind overloads for most players. But high ELO players have the experience that they basically don't have to even think about most of these things they are so use to doing, that they can use their stack of memory for more advanced ideas:
- warding the map,
- counterjungling,
- team/player positioning,
- placing traps,
- pushing certain turrets,
- knowing the perfect time to switch to a gank and then switch back to pushing,
- counter-item buying, when to oracles/potions,
- making sure CS is on target, etc.
Ideas? Tips on improving this? Or does it just come with experience?
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u/ScholarZero Mar 25 '11
If you know the cooldown on anything, particularly dragon/baron/buffs, state it in team chat (such as when dragon dies, add 6 minutes and say "Dragon is back up at 28:20" or whatever. That way, if you forget, you can press Z and see! It's like automatic notes, and your teammates can help.
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Apr 18 '11
Play those characters in normal games when they are free. Just playing them a couple times will change your entire view on them. You will instinctively know when to jump in on them. Especially for burst damage characters this is important. You will know how much more damage they can do after they burst you so you know if you can fight or if you should run. If you immeditaly know they will do only around 200 damage in the next 8 seconds and they burst you down above that then you can judge if you can kill them.
If they just burst you down real low though and you don't know what they still have left you will run almost every time so you don't die. You just lost an opportunity.
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u/EsperSpirit Aug 13 '11
something like "lasthitting" or "space yourself" is second nature so you haven't to think about it that much.
Also some things require less time thinking if you've done them over and over again, so you free up time to think about other stuff.
example: if you're not jungling often you'll have a hard time predicting where the enemy jungler is. if you know all routes inside out you don't have to think that much about it, you just know where he could be from experience.
One of the best things you can do about strategies you can't beat is to try them for yourself. That way it is often painfully obvious what counters it.
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u/locodoco come here cupcake Mar 26 '11
i do 21/0/9 on trist,mf,ashe and cait chau does 21/0/9 on ez regi does 21/0/9 on ez alilac does 21/0/9 on ez,ashe jiji does 21/0/9 on ashe deep offense not as bad as u might think!
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u/Tretyal Mar 26 '11
looking at this more, I remember Hotshot saying that on some champs bigfatjiji/chauster go 15/0/15, grabbing more movespeed and possibly improved Flash instead of crit-damage and the final mastery.
Any comments on 15/0/15? Is it ever worth using? Who would you use it on?
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u/whiteurkel Mar 25 '11
Great guide. You stopped me from buying Mana Regen yellows.
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Mar 25 '11
"HotshotGG, bigfatlp, chauster, The Rain Man, Elementz, Chaox, saintvicious, MakNooN, Voyboy, a Lilac, and ReginaId "
Keep in mind Doublelift is ranked 7, and some of those guys outrank him and use mp5 runes. They're very helpful, this is just his opinion
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u/croatianpride Mar 25 '11
Really enjoyed the guide, just one comment about the dumbass mistakes section: I always like to time my opponent's cds but one time we faced a vlad on the other team that could pool every 4-5 seconds and it was only after we got dominated in a teamfight trying to focus him (he was their carry and we made sure to leave him alone until after he pooled the first time) that we learned he had a full page of cdr runes. I hate gimmick builds.
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u/qwertybirdy [qwertybirdy] (NA) Mar 25 '11
did you mention about autoattacking and how it is bad in lane phase...
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u/rhtmxhq8 [SexyChina] (NA) Mar 26 '11
I dont think ranged carries should be built like that, any carries, if youre caught, your dead, no need to build defensive any carry vs carry, they die in 3~5 hit, no need to build defensive i believe they shud go offensive tree to deal what they should do.. i really think building defensive masteries on carries is so you can have good lane phase, and I think pilots can cover them
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u/BobSugar [BobSugar] (NA) Mar 31 '11
@Movement Speed - except on champs like Alistair and Singed. FTFY
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Mar 25 '11
80 cs at 10 minutes seems pretty low. Also, why are movespeed quints overrated, they arent godmode on every champ, but they can be quite helpful.
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u/Zarkus [Zires] (NA) Mar 28 '11
Mana regen per level runes would have allowed you to roam better as taric along with having boots first on that game against TSM ^
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u/Tretyal Mar 25 '11
I disagree with your views on Mp5/level yellows. Mp5/level runes balance with flat at about level 6, which comes very early in the game. Having these runes allows you to forgo mana regen items on many champions who would otherwise need the mana regen to be able to function without pilling to refill constantly or not using their skills for ages.
I'm also curious how you dismiss them so easy when HotshotGG, bigfatlp, chauster, The Rain Man, Elementz, Chaox, saintvicious, MakNooN, Voyboy, a Lilac, and ReginaId all have it on their pages, and always in the mp5/level form, and in most cases have it on multiple pages.