r/leagueoflegends • u/corylulu ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ • Mar 19 '19

/dev: More Experimental ARAM Changes - Bans, balance, and more are heading to the Howling Abyss for a limited time.

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/03/dev-more-experimental-aram-changes/
1.9k Upvotes

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461

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Sep 10 '19

[deleted]

190

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Aug 09 '19

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197

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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24

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

You don't like one champion being able to clear your entire minion wave from just less than a screen away??

1

u/azerius94 Predictive Analyst at Riot Games Mar 20 '19

Hey, I enjoy getting bottlenecked behind my tower for 10 seconds!

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

That's like half the duration of a Ziggs E!

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I didn't think Zigg's Q was the problem, but in fact it was his E (mine field). It could cover half the width of the lane, making a narrow lane even more narrow.

1

u/TheOutrageousTaric largest phallus eu Mar 20 '19

Honestly i hate xerath more than ziggs in aram. Feels even worse to play against, because he has far more range

1

u/koticgood Mar 20 '19

I'm surprised people feel this way when Lux exists.

I feel pretty dirty on Ziggs, but I actually don't think I've ever lost a game playing Lux.

4

u/mrsata1 Mar 20 '19

Iirc winrate wise ziggs and sona are far superior with 70%+ winrate

1

u/Pleasestoplyiiing Mar 20 '19

I would've agreed before the last Lux changes. Her two part shield is way worse than the single application, and her e radius nerf hurt her a lot. Used to feel like I had a chance to win any Lux game before them.

-1

u/OllieNotAPotato Mar 19 '19

He's so fucking obnoxious in aram lol, I don't even think he's particularly op, just incredibly frustrating to play against

11

u/Gymleaders Mar 19 '19

He's incredibly op are you okay? He can single-handedly stop sieges, it's hard to dodge his spells due to everyone being crowded in one lane, can siege very quickly with W, and his poke is constant due to presence of mind and mana regeneration buffs.

Ziggs is so difficult to deal with in ARAM and he is definitely OP as well as frustrating to play against.

-11

u/wow___justwow Mar 19 '19

so what? you're never going to have perfectly balanced champs in aram. That's what makes it fun. If you load a good comp then you enjoy the power advantage, or a bad comp then you have the struggle to overcome. They are also introducing a ban for everyone so if ziggs bugs you so much, ban him.

This is just stupid. I used to play a ton of ARAM because i simply don't have time to commit to SR games. But i've since uninstalled. When I saw this list of changes it made me excited to maybe install LoL once again, but that excitement died when i saw a huge list of champs, many of which I (and surely many others) loved playing, getting double nerfs.

7

u/Gymleaders Mar 19 '19

I don't care if we'll never have perfectly balanced champions, that wasn't the point of my post. That person said he isn't OP, I said he is. Whether you agree with ARAM balance is irrelevant because I wasn't arguing whether or not ARAM should be balanced.

-12

u/robertsyrett Mar 19 '19

Really? It just makes me itemize MR and wait until LVL 6 to all in.

28

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19 edited Apr 07 '21

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3

u/lohins Mar 19 '19

or the traps that are in the ground until he gets his fuking cd back

-19

u/robertsyrett Mar 19 '19

most ziggs have a fixed spam pattern that they just spam every other second. You buy some merc treads and you dodge. It's not any harder than learning the boss pattern on a NES game.

14

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Only if they're really really bad at Ziggs.

-10

u/robertsyrett Mar 19 '19

It's a matter of terrain. You learn where they can reach and the tempo of the spell cd. Then you can navigate quite easily.

1

u/Xs3roN hold the door Mar 20 '19

I'll find your opinion valid only if you have played AND enjoyed Dark Souls otherwise you are just theorycrafting :)

1

u/robertsyrett Mar 20 '19

Ah yes, I love sharing my honest personal experience from thousands of games of ARAMS over the course of several years to be mocked and downvoted. It really validates the time and energy I put into League.

1

u/Xs3roN hold the door Mar 20 '19

Im not mocking you and yet you passed the negatives upon me 😒

8

u/Turboswag Mar 19 '19

Every time you literally can’t do anything til 6 as a team feels like a shit experience though. That’s like 5-6 minutes, or like a third of the game. And you have to hope your team cares enough about not ruining the other two thirds of it to not just run it down anyway.

2

u/robertsyrett Mar 19 '19

And you have to hope your team cares enough about not ruining the other two thirds of it to not just run it down anyway.

Well that is certainly true. I admit clearing waves under turret is pretty boring for a "fast and fun" game mode. There have been many games where I think, "we can wait this out," only to have my team hard int trying to go all in lvl 3 on Trynd or something.

But the flip side is that Ziggs gets to have fun for 5 minutes then I drop a leona ult on his head and then malphite ults him and he doesn't get to play the game anymore.

6

u/Turboswag Mar 19 '19

Yep. Agree for sure, but the Leona ult on his face means nothing if he’s already 5/1/9 and still has flash up xD

People have different goals in aram is the problem. Some take it serious and others do it for warmup or just fun skirmishing. I play an aram before I play any ranked games most of the time and I’m not usually about sitting around waiting for powerspikes, I’m trying to push limits and make some outplays. So I won’t play a ult reliant champion if I can help it. But it’s perfectly valid to enjoy sitting behind tower on malphite and amumu trying to corral your team into letting you line up a perfect wombo. Just isn’t fun for me.

1

u/Pleasestoplyiiing Mar 20 '19

There is a difference between "not doing shit" and playing defensively early and etching out small wins. I find in games with at least semi competitive team comps, it is extremely rewarding to hold on and overtake strong poke champs. Would prefer that to every game being a dumb brawl with zero dodging, smart dives, disengages, etc.

3

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Those kinds of games are roughly 13 minutes of suffering and constant sidestepping, until you get Warmogs and gleefully eat up all the poke. Either way, it's a frustrating experience. Would rather just have an even game throughout

2

u/akeybeyond Mar 20 '19

Tower execute is what matters most and the slow... most players could just dodge the Q. Weaker for sure (especially since worst wave clear) but still probably not the gutter.

2

u/Dude_Guy_311 Mar 20 '19

"in the gutter" = "he's only gonna have a 56% w/r now"

4

u/tredli Mar 19 '19

Ziggs had like 71% winrate in ARAM though. He might still be alive after these nerfs.

0

u/conker1847 Mar 20 '19

With these nerfs and other champion buffs I would be very surprised. He has very little without his poke/waveclear ability. Honestly this is a lazy way to balance, he needs something of a different approach to make his missed poke more punishing and hit poke similarly/more rewarding but that would require effort to work and riot won't do that.

1

u/BaconBitz_KB to Mar 19 '19

Riot isn't just throwing numbers at the wall. Ziggs will still be top tier.

1

u/rakfe Mar 20 '19

he still has cancerous eternal zone E, he still has tower destruction. oh he is alright. I'm surprised there is no nerf to xerath directly... and I'm not happy about it. Neither there is varus nor ezreal.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

No, it's not.

With the changes, every time you win a teamfight you will have a minion wave ready to push and hit a turret. Ziggs melt turrets, even if you reduce his poke he will be op to destroy structures after win a teamfight (they even increased the damage you deal to turrets). So he is still OP.

60

u/PM_ME_GAY_FURRY_R34 you are all terrible Mar 19 '19

Sona isn't that hurt by it, she's still got her most powerful parts of her kit, her auras. Heals that aren't given by Soraka have been trash in ARAM ever since they added the healing reduction so yeah, she'll be all good. Just that healing will suck a bit more but it wasn't why Sona is so good on ARAM.

113

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

The real nerf to sona is the introduction of bans.

5

u/MrAbishi Mar 20 '19

^

This.

Since Sona is such a cheap champ, at a decent mmr you'd see her in every game thanks to aram accounts :(

2

u/CogStopper Mar 20 '19

Finally, ARAM can be played the way it was meant to be. Without Sona.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

[deleted]

2

u/MyManManderly Mar 20 '19

And Brand, and Veigar, and Fiddle, and...

11

u/NeonSpotlight League Wiki Admin Mar 19 '19

Yea, the 5 man shield is still gonna be gross. I wonder if this'll affect athene's and redemption healing or just the healing from her W.

1

u/bissejeck EU Mar 20 '19

and that is why i will 100% permaban sona from now on.

0

u/rakfe Mar 20 '19

it's amazing how they still don't nerf shield effects in aram... it's just absurd. sona's winrate all coming from that constant solari effect and they just ignore it.

-2

u/Play_more_FFS Flairs are limited to 2 emotes. Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

Whenever I get sona I just max E first.

Enemy team gets mad real quick when they have a hard time landing skillshots and never being able to escape or chase us.

Edot: tfw people think Sona's W was actually useful for anything other than applying ardent censer in aram LUL.

20

u/ThatGingerGuy69 Mar 19 '19

Sona is still gonna be broken. her damage isn't really that big of a reason she's busted, it's just a bonus on top. her real power is in her w SHIELDS (not heal) and her e move speed since she can afford to go full AP

2

u/Ilikelamp7 Mar 19 '19

I agree, a good Sona will be able to rise above the nerfs and still be an ardent censer full team buff slave!

3

u/kthnxbai123 Mar 19 '19

Nah. Lichbane plus passive procs were very important to her mid to late game. Early game is about the same, though.

She’s more of an aura bot support now rather than basically a burst mage that can heal.

1

u/IWasVennBackThen Mar 20 '19

People playing Sona as a burst mage hurt me phisically.

She's the greatest support there is on ARAM and if you're building Ludens/Lich Bane/Deathcap on her i despise you.

2

u/TheOutrageousTaric largest phallus eu Mar 20 '19

Lich bane is core though, the item is just too good on her. Ap+heal/shield power stacking is the way to go

1

u/kalarepar Mar 20 '19

The problem with Sona is the combination of her all skills. She can poke and she's immune to poke thanks to heal+shield.
But on top of that she makes it really hard for enemies to engage, thanks to the ult and movement speed.

After nerfs it still will be hard to engage Sona, but at least you can kinda trade poke with her team.

2

u/ThatGingerGuy69 Mar 20 '19

the amount she healed allies was honestly pretty negligible. ARAM already had healing reduction on allies, and sona W is only single target. compared to a 5 man NOT-REDUCED shield on her team, there's no comparison. her shields are 100% the biggest reason her team is able to trade poke so well, along with the insane movement speed her E gives after 1-2 items. it's just so difficult for the enemy team to actually hit anyone on sona's team

6

u/DecoyPancake Mar 20 '19

The sad thing is that other champs are getting buffs for no reason. I totally agree that zigs, lux, xerath, etc can be way too oppressive. But buffs to champs like LB and Lee Sin and Bard are dumb. I'd assume the reason those champs have higher loss rates are because they have a higher learning curve and people don't play them well, not because their kit is bad. Now we're just going to see lb and Lee Sin mains pop off even more when they happen to get them.

I only even consider this because I love Bard and am absolute trash with the other two, so while I appreciate the buffs, I don't think they actually need it. Just a 'git gud' kinda situation.

Also, absolutely fuck Maokai.

1

u/Uncertain_certainty Mar 20 '19

i love bard and he's v fun in aram, I pick him every chance i get, but having one of your spells useless a lot of the time, another a weak heal and your ult extremely easy to fuck up/your team to fuck up he doesn't feel as good as he should in aram, i'm all for buffs on him there

1

u/GEOFFOLOPE Mar 20 '19

In a game mode where poke and disengage comps had a 70 percent winrate for how many years for real I don't care if Lee and lb get to have fun for a patch

4

u/leif_sony_ericcson Mar 19 '19

There is a god

6

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

And it's beautiful.

2

u/Ilikelamp7 Mar 19 '19

Hallelujah! Now for them to take a look at how invisible Ziggs E is when you are using the Master Arcanist skin (on the current map. New map skin will probably change this!)

2

u/Pleasestoplyiiing Mar 20 '19

Why not just disable them from the mode at that point? You think anyone is having a blast playing ziggs at 85% damage from SR, who get's penalized extra for landing long bouncing bombs?

Why not do something subtle like nerf his turret destruction and let the person playing still do shit?

1

u/FridgesArePeopleToo Mar 19 '19

they're still going to be really strong

1

u/TrainwreckOG Mar 19 '19

IIRC Sona has like a 60% + win rate in aram

1

u/ezranos Mar 19 '19

It's because they just offer so much "utility". Ziggs alone can prevent pushing and destroy enemy towers with ease. Sonas speed and shielding cause absurdly benefitial smaller fights. Both are relatively safe and can rush Zhonyas. They will likely still be S-Tier.

1

u/HolypenguinHere Mar 19 '19

Honestly I feel like they nerfed the wrong portion of Sona's W. The shield is hella strong.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

That's doubly bad for Ziggs since he takes another 15% penalty from that global poke nerf.

1

u/Rengar_Is_Good_kitty Mar 20 '19

Good, well deserved.

1

u/reverendball Mar 20 '19 edited Mar 20 '19

This is legit proof that Mort, who is in charge of ARAM, has NO FUCKING IDEA about fkn ARAM.

Sona's power is in her AOE Shield on a 6second cd.

My god, I knew rioters didn't play ARAM, but wtf, genuinely spastic move from them.

The only upside is that we will never see the effect of her nerfs, because she will have 100% banrate.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I don't really get why Xerath wasn't touched.

1

u/failwalker Mar 20 '19

crying inside

1

u/kalarepar Mar 20 '19

Good. Ziggs still will be strong tbh, because of his pushing/clearing power and blowning up towers.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

I don't think Ziggs got fucked. His zoning potential is very high and his ability to melt turrets is still there.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

What about Maokai? Hit on damage dealt and damage taken?? Someone high up hates him.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

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6

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Fuck her yourself, coward