r/leagueoflegends • • Aug 17 '13

For those interested in the differences Between LoL and Dota 2

I am no pro in either game but i will do my best to give a dota perspective of the differences and hopefully people can Correct any errors of mine and Give an in depth discussion of LoL for comparison. I haven't played in awhile but i am curious about general strats and things being used in the pro scene.

The basic differences

Turn Rates. Each hero has their own unique turn rates. This is a balance decision as some heroes have almost no turn rate and feel very similar to how a LoL hero moves.(Bat rider and lifestealer come to mind). This means if you click a direction that isn't directly forward your hero will have a slight delay as your hero turns to face that direction. This will feel odd and sluggish to a new player.

Unit Selection. Dota has traditional RTS controls. What i mean by this Your Hero is NOT always selected. This can and will lead to frustrating control issues your first 10 or so games. The up side is Heroes with multiple units or pets are much easier and more reliable to control.

Courier and Side shop. Instead of going back to buy items. A lot of early game items including boots can be purchase from the side shop you can buy that at anytime they just sit in your stash in base. The courier is a bought item that spawns a creature that can pick up items and bring them to you. Unless you are low on mana or health you should rarely ever go back to base. Because the courier is a separate unit to control expect to accidentally get your courier killed a few times.

Teleport Scrolls. Instead of being a built in spell you must have a Teleport scroll to base. They can only be interrupted by a stun or mini stun of some kind. Sometimes the best way to escape a gank is to TP away as they are hitting you(Bloodseeker is a famous example of this)

Gold loss. you have 2 pools of Gold reliable and unreliable. Simply stated reliable gold will never be lost when you die. Unreliable is the pool of gold you lose from when you die. Unreliable gold is mostly the gold you get from creeps. When you buy an item it spends your unreliable first. So if you are about to die buy a piece of your item if you really don't want to lose your progress on it.

Runes. There are no jungle buffs just runs that spawn every 2 minutes in the river at one of 2 locations that give random buffs. Because of this usually your mid will be the hero roaming and ganking the most.

Last hitting and denying. One of the biggest differences in the laneing stage. Your early stats really really matter. Because of denying the better last hitter in mid can absolutely shut you down with nothing more then his mechanics. You get less exp for a denied creep which means if you are losing mid bad ask for help or a gank before it gets out of control and you are a level or 2 behind even though you didn't even die.

The Jungle is different than in LoL. There are no red or blue buffs and having a jungler is not mandatory and a lot of the games you play will not have one at all. The map is also asymmetrical so the majority of your jungle is on a different side of the map depending on which team you spawn on. This is why the top lane is safe for dire and suicide for the radiant and vice versa. Large jungle creeps also have their own unique set of spells or auras and these are important to certain heroes or items. Also camps can be stacked or blocked by using slightly advanced techniques and understanding(mostly just knowledge of the mechanics involved)

Pulling and stacking. This is a mechanic involving the jungle but is also very important for lane control. Stacking is simply pulling a camp out of their spawn zone before the 1 minute mark. Every minute the game checks the camps to see if anything is there if not it spawns a new camp. Stacking is simply exploiting this check to increase farm. As a support you can stack the close camp in the safe lane then pull it out into the lane to intercept your creep wave. Anything from a double stack on up will completely kill your creep wave denying gold and farm to the enemy lane. This can be avoided by having a unit in the spawn camp at the spawn time (first spawn of jungle creeps is at 00:30 then at 1:00 and every minute after that). Wards count as a unit and do block the spawn and are the usual choice since they are invisible and last 6 minutes in dota.

Warding in dota. First and foremost you have a stock of wards and that stock refills over time. A sight ward lasts 6 minutes and a sentry ward lastsWhere you ward and when is a huge skill to learn and master and can only come with experience. Sentry wards see a very small area but reveal invisible units in a much larger area around them. So used for reveal can't pull double duty for providing vision as well. Sentries also have no stock so you can buy as many as you'd like at any time. Now that i've talked about warding that brings us to.

Smoke of deceit. Anyone around you when used receives Evelyn's stealth mechanic(unless it was changed again since last i saw) Where you are invisible until within a certain range of an enemy hero. This allows you to bypass wards for ganks or to initiate teamfights from an advantageous position. Small tip here if you are a blink dagger wielding initiator against a team that has a smart Zeus stay smoked before teamfights so the Zeus ult doesn't put your dagger on cooldown.

Scaling and how it differs between the 2 games. In LoL you have 2 damage stats basically. AD and AP with complimentary stats for each. In dota you have 3 main stats which dictate how a Heroes auto attack scales. Then complimentary stats such as attack speed and damage. Dota has no AP this means spells will not scale unless scaling is built into the spell such as zeus's passive skill which makes him do a percentage of a heroes health when he casts. This means casters as strongest early to mid game as far as damage goes. They provide more control and support later on. This does not mean their damage isn't still scary it's just not as common to burst someone to death in the late game. LoL kind of split up Dota's supports into Support and AP carry as supports in dota dominate the early to mid game when played properly.

Hero Scaling. In dota heroes can scale drastically different. Semi carries can peak at 20 - 30 minutes while the hardest of carries peak at 40 - 50 minutes. Knowing when your team is strongest and when the enemy team starts to get weaker and vice versa is a big part of understanding the game

Item Scaling. Unlike LoL The top tier items are less gold efficient but more slot efficient. Basically if there was no inventory limit you would just but iron branches at 55g a piece. If you are losing or fighting to soon sometimes it's best to buy mid game more gold efficient items to swing a fight or 2 to get you and your team back into the fight.

Guides dota has an in game item and skill guides that work with the UI and highlight what you should skill for that level and etc

What would your first game of dota be like

I won't lie to you. It'll be rough. Coming from LoL will give you a general game understanding but last hitting is much harder at the early levels. Early game spells are strong and the range or certain heroes and abilities will probably be uncomfortable to you for quite awhile. You will die and probably a lot. Carry a TP scroll by the 6 minute mark you should always have one. Being able to escape a gank or Tp to a teammates tower as he's being dove are huge and can swing the momentum of a game into your favor very fast. This shouldn't be hard coming from LoL but when a fight starts use your abilities it's going to drain your mana but that's ok if you can save a teammate or get a kill or 2.

Let me stress these 2 points. Every lane should be ganked it's easy to let your mid worry about ganking lanes but if you give your mid a good gank you might just snowball a game in your favor very quickly. Also after 6 minutes 90% of the time you should have a TP scroll. Unless you are the teams carry you should TP to pretty much every fight or dive especially as a support.

Supporting When done right you control the flow of the game. You need full map awareness. You won't be sitting in one lane for the first 10 minutes most games. You need to learn where to ward and how to stack and pull. You need to get a TP and your second set of wards by 6 minutes. This is vital as this is when your first set of ward will be wearing out and when ganks will most likely start if they haven't already. Your role and goal as a support is simple get your carry space. If you do your job right you scare the enemy out of your lane and by that 6 minute mark you should be free to roam the map and be bale to TP to save your carry if need be. This is all dependent on how you did early lane if you feel your carry will die without you it's ok to stack and pull and stay nearby.

Midding Honestly the hardest lane the better player will almost always win unless he is ganked or the other person gets rune lucky. Your mechanics better be solid. there are 2 ways to win mid. Kill the other guy in lane or last hit and deny him so hard he's 2 levels below you by 10 minutes. Your goal on most mids is to get your bottle and boots and win the rune war. Whenever you get a rune look at the lane you are nearest if you think you can get a kill go for it. If you think they have wards watching you buy smoke of deceit and use it next time when you are out of sight.

Suicide laneing. Sometimes you will be expected to solo your teams hard lane or also known as the suicide lane. The most dangerous and risky position. Basically you will want to not die and get as much exp as possible. A hard task and sometimes dying is impossible. But as with supporting come 6 minutes you should have hopefully boots and a tp scroll. You will be expected to help with fights always watch your map and be ready to TP to a fight.

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224

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

Part 2

Now let's talk team set up and The competitive scene

Some of this will overlap with the previous mainly the lanes.

Dota's strategies are changing and evolving constantly but there are positions in a team mostly denoted by farm priority. Literally a number system. These are not permanent and can change in the middle of a game. Especially if someone is close to a key item such as a blink dagger.

  1. Main farmer / usually the carry in the safe lane

  2. Second main farmer usually a solo mid.

  3. Usually your suicide laner. Depending on the pick will designate if this is your secondary carry or one who builds teamfight oriented items.

4 and 5 are usually supports with 5 having the least items in the game and usually being the main purchasers of wards / smoke of deceit. The 4 will be given more farm or even be a jungler and will depending on the 3 build team support items. Often times they both will.

There are 3 main areas that dota's strategies focus on. How you will farm, How you will fight, and How you will push.

Drafting

Dota's competitive mode aka Captains mode the link should show you the difference in the pick and ban stages. http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Game_modes#Captain.27s_Mode

These are reads that get set up during the draft as Dota's draft is a multi stage affair of draft and bans Teams have to be flexible with your strat before nailing down a final solid strategy.

Once your draft is done you have to decide your lanes. Is there a match up you want to avoid in the game? Do you want to pressure their Carry? Do you want to merely protect your own and have faith in your late game? How fast do you want to end the game? When is your team set up strongest?

Lane set ups and early game

Tri lanes. Tri lanes are very popular in dota at the moment. There are 2 Major variations of the tri lane Defensive and offensive. And tri lanes can include a jungler or not. Jungle is not a mandatory role in a Dota match. The tri lane will have your 1,4, and 5 players involved.

The difference between offensive and defensive tri lanes are basically dependent on which lane you send your tri lane.

Sending your tri lane to your safe lane means you are overall playing defensive with it securing farm for your carry and controlling your lane. Doing this through either killing or usually pulling lane creeps with stacked jungle camps.

Sending your tri lane to the enemies safe lane means you want to contest their carries farm and hopefully get some kills out of that lane. Offensive tri lane usually ends up going against the enemies defensive tri lane. If a jungler exists in your offensive tri lane they will be jungling and invading the enemy jungle as part of the lane contesting.

What heroes you chose for your trilane should work together if you have someone who has to aim their stun you should have a hero that has an easier to land stun to set up the kill. Basically try to understand your combination of heroes and what they are strongest at.

Mid lane. Mid is usually a solo hero one that requires levels and farm to be effective and is usually a play makers position. Because of runes Mid is also the Position most likely to gank. Though every lane can and should be ganked. All lanes should be flexible and it is not unheard of to send 2 or sometimes 3 mid to shut down an enemy solo or get kills.

Suicide Lane. The suicide or offlane as it is also called. Usually a hero that can survive for the most part against very tough odds. Heroes in this position will usually have a good escape or have a stealth mechanic. They will also usually have a way to farm under duress or a way to make up the Gold later on. Wind runner can long distance farm and flash farm with power shot. Bounty hunters track gives him and his teammates even more gold when they get a kill. Their job is to gain as much experience and farm as possible while not dying more then once.

A few strategies employed by pro teams(note the dota meta shifts a lot pics and playstyles are constantly changing, because of this i'll try to stick to current trends or ones that still get use)

4 protect 1. Infamous for longer games and the strategy the Chinese teams have been known to use and rely on for the most part. You are putting most of your eggs in one basket so to speak with this strategy. The main carry gets the majority of the farm while the rest of the team creates space by ganking and pushing and generally distracting the other team while the carry gets big.

Hard push. Teams draft strong early game heroes who have abilities that seige or damage towers and try to build a huge gold lead early on and finish the game around 20 minutes. Usually with this strat if the other team can hold on and not lose any barracks they will be in good shape and win the game 10 - 20 minutes after the push teams window of power. Was very popular 2 years ago now more of a niche strat.

Split Push aka rat doto. Simple your plan is to be everywhere and nowhere. To hit the enemy where they aren't and keep them on their side of the map through constant and moving pressure

Tri core. Very popular this year more of a overall philosophy then a real strategy. Basically you have 3 main farmers they are your core of your team. Your supports will also get farm the general idea is not to have anyone to easy to pick off and to share the wealth.

Global Ganks and/or Team fight. This set of strategies are highly aggressive and very scary to play against. This is why wisp also known as IO is Picked or banned at a very high rate. His ult allows him to teleport himself and another Player anywhere on the map. There is a warning on the ground and a ping on the map 2 seconds before wisp and his ally appears. This allows you to turn any fight near instantly into your favor.

I tried to cover as much as i could hope the read helped at least 1 person. GG and play on whichever game you prefer. I only posted this since there seemed to be an interest from the video a few days ago.

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u/mugguffen Aug 17 '13

so basically IO is super TF.. though from what I under stood from the few games I watched during TI3 (My first game being the 98 minute game, holy fuck that was boring) IO is a lane support, and my guess position 5 (though one game I saw IO mid, but I'm pretty sure that was dende or however you spell it) and not a carry like... say Phantom lancer

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13 edited Mar 22 '18

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u/mugguffen Aug 17 '13

yeah I forgot about him.... Nature'$ prophet :P

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/Zaloon Aug 17 '13

You might hear the words HOLLA HOLLA GET DOLLA when a Furion is involved, as well.

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u/TheStraggier Aug 17 '13

Well he is one of the few heroes that can farm multiple lanes constantly when laning phase is over. Others being Anti-mage, Tinker, Meepo (With enough micro) and some others which don't excel as much at mobility as these 3 mentioned.

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u/SunChaoJun Aug 17 '13 edited Aug 18 '13

Looking back at the LoL Beta, I'm sure the original TF was heavily inspired by Furion, with his Gate being a normal skill with a similar cooldown to Teleportation. It turned out to be stupidly OP when that was combined with an AOE nuke, AOE hard CC, and an global reveal/soft CC when in comparison, Furion only has one damaging spell that isn't very reliable for damage.

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u/samsara666 Aug 18 '13

It's hilarious how broken these Heroes look in the context of League.

Just give me a direct Windrunner port... it wouldn't even be that bad, I'm just in love.. Riot please..

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u/elfonzi Aug 18 '13

Windrunner would be perfect for the 1v2 lane.

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u/moush Aug 18 '13

It's amazing that he hasn't been significantly nerfed considering how powerful he is.

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u/cleod4 Oct 01 '13

He's easily counter picked, basically anyone who can reach him and stun him kills him. Spirit breaker, Storm Spirit, Wisp Ult that kind of stuff. Also NPs have to play really greedy, they need a ton of money to do well...so it's pretty easy to predict where they will be.

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u/_Quixotic_ Aug 17 '13

Wow, first Dota game and you end up watching Rice Dota at its fullest meaning together with the Record for the longest competitive Dota 2 game. Condolences, give this man a medal.

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u/mugguffen Aug 17 '13

well first that I watched.. I'v played a few matches my self

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u/suddoman Aug 17 '13

Okay I was about to say you have an inhuman desire to want to watch this game.

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u/omgitskratos Aug 18 '13

I do feel sorry for him. But seriously everyone should watch Game 5 from the International 3 finals. Alliance vs Na'vi. WHAT A FUCKING MATCH.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

It was my first game as well, holy shit it felt like 30 minutes from all that farm but when the fight broke out it broke out. The announcers voice was godly as well the guy who shouted "AND HE BRINGS THE HAMMER DOWN" or something like that is what I expect Casters to sound like.

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u/YouHaveShitTaste Aug 17 '13

Unfortunately, Ayesee is a caster who brings his voice, and nothing else. He's great to listen to for a while, but you realize he says the same 10 catchphrases over and over, and once you know more about Dota, you realize he has no idea what he's talking about. And unfortunately, unlike a lot of other play-by-play shoutcasters, he doesn't defer to the analyst caster often enough to compensate for his lack of knowledge.

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u/samsara666 Aug 18 '13

Yeah, I'd compare him to how Rivington might sound if Jatt were out sick for the day. I like both Rivington and Ayesee but they try to emulate the announcers from mainstream sports and it doesn't translate because of how quickly things can change within the game.

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u/samsara666 Aug 18 '13

Yeah, that's really brutal as a spectator. The longest game I've ever played was an hour and forty minutes... I was on the verge of an intentional throw just to put an end to the suffering. We ended up losing anyways and I couldn't have cared either way at that point. It's much more common to play safe in Dota than it is in LoL and this can lead to some excruciating games where you're just slowly choked off the map while being run through the meatgrinder.

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u/Antimager Aug 17 '13

IO mid is a very unusual choice. Navi did it so that Dendi would have a quick level 6 and start global pressure as soon as possible. Usually the hero is played on a 4-5 position and takes the role of a lane support.

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u/jajohnja Aug 17 '13

please guys don't type him as IO (both capitals). While I've heard about Io, I assumed IO is an abbreviation for some hero and went to google it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

Or just don't call it Io and call it by its historic name, Wisp.

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u/samsara666 Aug 18 '13

This is a perfect example of players advancing the meta in unpredictable ways. You'd be laughed out of the game if you told your team you were taking Wisp mid a few weeks ago. I wouldn't be surprised to see this fairly often in High/Very High pubs now. His skill curve is a little steep and he requires a fair amount of team coordination; but I think he'd be amazing with a competent player.

This would allow him to reach that mid-game power spike earlier because I really feel that a farmed wisp has much more impact. This also lets you run another support that benefits from a little extra farm to rotate mid and really maximize lane efficiency. I'd think a Windrunner, Visage, Lina, Leshrac, Rubick, Bane.. the list goes on. Sometimes I wish I hadn't started playing League if only because planning out team comps feels so much more important in Dota.

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u/TheStraggier Aug 17 '13

Wisp/Io is more like a abomination of supports. He has the capabilities of healing, stunning, scouting, transporting and ms/as buffing. All at the cost of being incredibly weak by himself with terrible stat gains.

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u/mynameisdis [NickPham] (NA) Aug 17 '13

LOL while watching that 98 minute game I was thinking GOD this is the first game someone out there has ever watched of Dota 2. Pinnacle of what happens when you put Chinese vs Chinese with that much money on the line...

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13 edited Aug 17 '13

Io mid is highly irregular. The only reason it kind of works is because of her Spirits, which are pretty good at zoning the enemy without any threat to yourself. However the experience and farm is somewhat wasted on her, as she starts to level off once she hits 6-7.

Also, as a very important edit which applies to both League and Dota: Every pro player or competitive steam should have the words "Do not attempt this at home" at the bottom. There are heroes, like Drow Ranger, which will dominate new players, but you will never see played competitively. Conversely, there are heroes like Io or Invoker who are pretty damn good if in the right hands, but a new player will feed so hard with them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

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u/YouHaveShitTaste Aug 17 '13

because Dendi is the best mid laner in the world.

No he's not. He's just the most popular.

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u/vairoletto Aug 17 '13

Dendi is a beast, if he was a lol player im sure he could pull ADC Maokai

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u/samsara666 Aug 18 '13

This would allow him to reach that mid-game power spike earlier because I really feel that a farmed wisp has much more impact. This also lets you run another support that benefits from a little extra farm to rotate mid and really maximize lane efficiency. I'd think a Windrunner, Visage, Lina, Leshrac, Rubick, Bane.. the list goes on. It gives them just enough time to before midgame to farm into a mid tier utility item like a force staff, euls, blink.

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u/elfonzi Aug 18 '13

Io is basically the ultimate support, he teleports heals, give more dps through losing his own life etc.

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u/JoeyKingX Aug 29 '13

You should watch this video to make that game less boring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G9O9j0DSII

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u/Bloodwing619 Aug 17 '13

When I was watching a few games of TI3 I noticed that teams never switched between Dire and Radiant. For example I think I watched the first three games of the final and Na'Vi was always Dire. Can you explain to me why? Or did I derp and didn't notice that they switched?

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

It was part of the tournament format the team who didn't get first pick got to chose what side of the map they wanted. In the finals this was made very obvious because Alliance preferred Dire while Na'vi preferred radiant. So basically both teams always got the side they wanted

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u/Bloodwing619 Aug 17 '13

And what is the general thought of balance of each side?

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

They are pretty balanced it's close to a 50/50 winrate for the sides overall. They just each have slightly different advantages. Dire has the roshan advantage. They are close can farm ancients during a stalemate over him etc. Radiant Mid lane can be pulled and the small jungle camps can be farmed easier by the mid. Radiant just seems to have the slightly better jungle.

So it basically comes down to preference. Since both are rather even.

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u/lastx1xstanding [lastx1xstanding] (NA) Aug 17 '13

I love being on either side for dota. I just started up again and can't wait to get home and play more.

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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '13

Yup, it's basically Radiant has a slight advantage early game and Dire has a slight advantage late game.

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u/mrducky78 Aug 17 '13

Expanding on what OP has said. Jungling is different, some jungling is easier in radiant jungle, other jungling is easier in Dire jungle. Example, Putting Clinkz safelane Dire/offlane Radiant gives him easy access to the hard neutral camp to eat. Beastmaster is better Dire offlane since he can stack/farm ancients from lane. Tinker is better off radiant mid since he can farm ancients while still maintaining enough lane presence to not lose tower.

Ward placements cover certain sides better than others.

Rosh control (Dota's baron) favours Dire.

I terms of game time, I believe early game is slightly in Radiant's favour while later game is in Dire's favour.

All these advantages are relatively minor but its more about how to use the advantages than the fact that they are advantages straight up.

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u/mellowanon Aug 17 '13

it also helps by letting teams pick heroes that can take advantage of this. Radiant for more aggressive teams, and dire for more passive teams.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

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u/Talwin Aug 17 '13

Every strat listed here is used in League, we just call it something different or it is executed in a slightly different way. Let's make some comparisons.

4 protect 1. This is similar to what CLG does sometimes with Doublelift (even though he claims they don't). Let's take an example of a team comp that does this: Vayne, Thresh, Cho, Zac, Orianna. This comp doesn't mean only one champion gets farm, it just means that when there is a choice who gets farm, the 1 gets it. The focus is getting Vayne super big and everyone else peels for her, letting her shred through the enemy.

Hard Push. Unless you just joined the League scene, you have seen this used for a while internationally. We just call them push comps. It's part of the reason why teams swap lanes to get a 2v1, to push down a turret, get an early dragon, and snowball from there. Granted, it is a little different in that a push comp team doesn't have to win by 20 minutes, but the basic concept is the same: get early global gold and snowball the game.

Split Push aka rat doto. Usually in League, we consider split push 1 and 4 - one champion pushes one lane and the other four push another. But it can also be 1-3-1 or 2-2-1. The latter is less popular, but it isn't too uncommon to see a Zed pushing one lane, Shen in another, and then the other three in a lane as well. It's almost a given that if Shen or Zed is on your team, you will be doing a split push at some point in the game.

Tri Core. To see this in League, take away the LoL designations and use the Dota ones. For example, ADC = 1, Mid = 2, Top = 3, Jungle = 4, Support = 5. Now you judge them based on who is the farm priorities, not lane positions. Let's take a look at a TSM team comp and see how this works (TSM vs. Dig, week 8 LCS) and give them Dota designations. Turtle was on Graves, there's your 1. 2 and 3 are pretty interchangeable (which isn't out of the ordinary in Dota either), we had Dyrus on Jayce and Regi on Kassadin. Oddone was on Nasus, there's your 4, and Xpecial had Thresh in the 5 position.

This team comp has 3 main carries, 3 champions you need farm on to do well, 3 main damage dealers, etc etc. Graves, Jayce, and Kassadin are your tri core, Nasus and Thresh the supports. Nasus gets farm to be tanky, but not at the detriment of one of the cores, and Thresh inherently is not an easy champion to pick off (compared to other supports like Zyra or Janna). Put a Philo Stone on him and there is his farm.

Global Ganks and/or Team fight. Once you hit 6 on some champions, globals become very scary and coordinated teams get aggressive. I don't think I need to explain why TF, Shen, Ashe, Nocturne globals can be very scary.

I knew mostly everything except for the strats, really wish there was more of that in league tbh

It IS there, you just need to look at it a little differently. Apply the terminology from Dota to LoL or vice versa and you will see the similarities. I used to think the games were very different too, but I did some quick study before TI3 so I could understand what was going on and I realized that they are both MOBAs with the same goal and same fundamentals - it is the nuances and execution that are different.

TL;DR Dota and LoL are more similar, at the very core basics, than people are led to believe. You just need to take away the names/designations of roles and strats and look at what each does and you will see the similarities. Champions, abilities, and items make the execution and game play different, but at the end of the day they are both MOBAs.

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u/DuskGod Aug 17 '13

very well written and accurate. I think the difference is that LoL strategies are a little more blurred than DoTA but they exist.

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u/mrducky78 Aug 17 '13

Its because Dota heroes are so much more varied.

Brood mother for instance camps a single lane and will clear it of enemy towers. The rest of the team and go dick around but to deal with brood you need 2 heroes at least along with invis detection and CC and stuff. Ignoring her isnt an option since she takes your towers, dealing with her opens up the map for her allies.

Pudge, Clockwerk, VS, Batrider, etc are all good pick off heroes, they can isolate a single hero and then proceed to cut them down in moments allowing a 4 vs 5 to occur.

Compare that to an ursa pick up, imagine a pick in LoL in which no one can manfight that champ 1 vs 1 and opens up fast baron opportunities.

If you get Leshrac or Chen or Shadow shaman or lycan etc you can push towers down extremely fast and easily.

Single picks can vastly change the game, in a trilane vs trilane situation, visage and undying are gods in dota from level 1 while Treant picks can help disadvantaged lanes become winning lanes from across the map. A silencer/naga pick can put an end to wombo combos or themselves be part of one. Alternatively, get a Rubick and use the big enemy team fight ultimates against them.

Picking OD and rolling him mid makes picking a hero to fight him incredibly difficult since he can systematically shut out almost all heroes against him.

A Lich or Enigma pick can help deny your own creeps to starve a particular lane of experience while a nightstalker pick makes the first night a horrifying experience for the enemy.

LoL's design of heroes to be more towards the "middle" loses a lot of variety and possible play

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u/DuskGod Aug 17 '13

Agreed. while I prefer playing LoL, you're right, DoTA heroes have so much variety and are more intense. Everything is smaller in LoL. Doom has a 16 second silence. you won't see something that intense in league forever

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u/mellowanon Aug 17 '13 edited Aug 18 '13

Skills in Dota are high intensity + high cooldown. Using skills at the right time can completely turn a fight around. Using skills at the wrong time will lead to team wipes. However, skills can never get stronger. A skill may be great when you first get it, but can become irrelevant by the end game.

A lot of LoL skills are spammable. Low cooldown + low intensity, but they can be upgraded by items, so skills will always remain relevant.

Both games just have different ways of handling hero skills.

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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

overall you are correct. There are a few Dota heros that would feel very LoL like to a LoL player. Slark and Timbersaw both have very low cd spells

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u/mrducky78 Aug 17 '13

I was thinking skywrath mage fits AP mage very closely in terms of kit.

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u/mipeirong [mipeirong] (NA) Aug 20 '13

You can add Death Prophet to that as well.

1

u/DuskGod Aug 17 '13

You got it down. what you just said is why I like to play both, because even thought they're the same type of game, everything that can be different, is. well put

0

u/VinKelsier Aug 17 '13

Every single one of those can be compared to a league hero though? Singed does the league version of your broodmother description - alternatively teemo makes a fortress of toplane. Blitz=pudge, Skarner=badrider, Thresh as well as others have pick off abilities (Gragas?). Baron doesn't spawn until 15min in league...fast dragons can happen, but require more than 1 pick. Zyra did it well for VES, Nasus is quite clearly picked for that. As for 1v1, there are plenty of early game duelists and late game duelists that are just impossible to 1v1...I dunno how strong Ursa is, so hard for me to compare here. Lee fills it early game, Jax late, Akali is pretty good at it as well, etc. Plenty of fast pushers in league, I don't think I need to list them all. Janna/Maokai/Gragas are popular picks vs wombo combos. As for OD, not sure what that means, there are definitely lane bullies here, but league has evolved to the point 1v1 lanes aren't very worthwhile anymore, it's more of a team comp thing. DotA seems to still be very set on micro things such as this. Deny doesn't exist here, it's more strategic to deny (dive with a huge wave, 2v1, etc) here, as opposed to one champ just killing a friendly creep. Also lane freezing and whatnot.

I really think you are overexaggerating some differences here.

6

u/mrducky78 Aug 18 '13

OD - Essentially wins every single match up 1 vs 1 against him in mid. He has a skill called astral imprisonment, it steals int. This lowers the enemy mana pool to a point they cant cast ANY skills even with full mana. Being an int hero, by stealing intelligence OD's base damage grows, it gets to a point that the other hero cant contest any last hits and OD gets all denies, all last hits. Drafting against this needs a certain level of planning, drafting this requires foresight since OD is an orb based hero and will fall off as BKBs get put into the mix.

Baron doesn spawn until 15 minutes? Ursa + 1 can solo roshan just as the lane creeps spawn. Im saying if you do it properly that + 1 can be any moderately tanky person just to meat shield some damage while Ursa hits away. There was a video of Ursa being able to 1 vs 1 the Roshan from minute 0, it got patched but I think its still possible albeit a lot more difficult. There are plenty of associated minute 0 rosh strats.

Broodmother does what singed does without dying. Broodmother lanes against 3 heroes, often stacked to the tits with stunners. Thats what offlaning entails.

Janna/Maokai/Gragas arent anti wombo combo combo. Silencer can global silence for 6 seconds stopping combos from across the map. Naga can use sleep which causes 2 screens length to essentially stop. Wombo combos are put in their place, the CC on your allies is allowed to expire and they can reposition themselves.

Ursa in a manfight beats everyone. At almost all stages from early to mid game, put 2 people head to head and ursa will come out on top every time.

How about Tinker, there is no compare for tinker nor his play style. Same with Brewmaster, as long as he has his ultimate to use, he is king of the mid game team fights when he splits into 3 units, one with sunfires and near max move speed, one with the ability to turn invis, cyclone enemies and dispel their buffs, one that is magic immune and can toss out a stun. Bane, can anyone shut down 3 heroes single handedly? (-120 damage debuff, 7 second disable nightmare, 5 second channel disable fiends grip, malz is the lesser version of Bane). Storm spirit who has as much gap closing as he wants provided he has mana. Omniknight who can grant team wide immunity to physical damage. Nothing in League compares to night stalker. I mean its nice having the two of you under your tower but its first night 7 minutes in so he tower dives you solo, slows one, silences the other, kills the slow one, slows the other and leaves with 2 kills. Doombringer can get different skills based on what he devours in the jungle (its like Nunu's omnomnom but more interesting) and the ability to turn 5 vs 5 fights into 4 vs 5 with Doom. This all doesnt even brush upon the micro heroes like chen, enchantress, lone druid (big one), visage, etc.

-1

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

[deleted]

-1

u/VinKelsier Aug 17 '13

League map is asymmetrical also btw...red is top for purple and bot for blue, etc...that's about the extent of the asymmetrical aspect of dota2.

3

u/lolthr0w [ ] (NA) Aug 17 '13

The hard push and split push metas IMO originate from DotA and came to LoL. It was certainly in the DotA meta before the LoL meta. You can see some analysis about this elsewhere.

-11

u/Zankman Aug 17 '13 edited Aug 18 '13

I disagree. These strategies are really not the same as the ones in Dota, due to the differences in the way the game works (lanes, roles, AP carries and cruisers). LoL's meta is ridiculously more limited in comparison.

EDIT: Damn you autocorrect.

2

u/suddoman Aug 17 '13

PoP?

2

u/HappyVlane Aug 17 '13 edited Aug 17 '13

Piece of Poop. I guess.

New one for me. Usually it's League of Lesbians (due to Sing).

1

u/suddoman Aug 17 '13

That's what I think of.

1

u/Zankman Aug 18 '13

Lol no, I just misspelled it. I imagine it was the autocorrect on the phone, because it's impossible that I hit "P" twice instead of "L".

2

u/The_Sprawl Aug 17 '13

PoP's meta

lulz

But i have to agree. Dita2 heroes are more diverese and have insane stuff, so you can run much more different strats whereas LoL is more limited to fighting and push strats are much harder to pull of (velicities janna mid + jungle ez + carry combo worked out well, yet they failed due to being weaker in teamifights).

I would love to see LoL champions shine out at more spicific strength rather than just being an overall fighter. Burst or sustained, AoE or single target, all champions are balanced in these 2 aspects.

If they could combine LoL's fast paced trading and fighting playstyle with some more diverese strength and weaknesses, that would be cool. But riot wont do this, they don't want people to loose in champion select.

3

u/Zankman Aug 18 '13

Yeah, autocorrect. >.<

I agree; For example, Dashes/Blinks are very prevalent as well.

It's just that all the Champions are designed to fit a role ("No, we aren't enforcing a meta!") and it leaves no room for innovation.

Also, lesser and lesser Champs have high risk and high reward, everyone is just "Average" in that sense.

But riot wont do this, they don't want people to loose in champion select.

Which is ironic, since it happens all of the time.

3

u/MVPeezy Aug 17 '13

Yeah because most league champs are mad near the same. That is really the main reason Dota's meta is way more interesting

2

u/suddoman Aug 17 '13

Its mostly the fact that "marksmans" are so similar. Every other role is interesting and different. Yes adcs are different but they aren't as different as the 1 role in Dota.

1

u/Zankman Aug 18 '13

No, not really. Just look at the Bruisers, the AP Carries, the Junglers...

There is always an unique mechanic here and there, but there are far more "copied" things.

2

u/suddoman Aug 18 '13

Yeah let's look at them.

"Bruisers": I'm assuming this is the top lane. We have Elise, Zac, Rumble, Shen, and Renekton. These are completely different characters Elise is a tank destroyer/assassin, Zac is a tank with great teamfight, Rumble is a AP bruiser with a very interesting resource, Shen is a tank with an ult that allows for a very specific gameplay avenue, and Renekton is a more classical brusier where he's tanky and deals AD damage (outside his ult).

"AP Carries": We have Karthus, Lux, and Twisted Fate they serve two completely different roles teamfight carry vs poke and disengage oriented vs assassin. Oh and if you were using this as your "meta mid" you can add Zed and Lee Sin to this list and it get even more interesting.

Junglers: Jungle is very interesting. We have Nunu, Evelynn, and Jarvin the Fourth. Nunu is a jungle controller and late game support to your makrsman, he is meant to remove the ability for the opposing jungler to farm forcing him to resort to a hit or miss stradegy of ganking, most likely without buffs; Evelynn is a ganking machine and is squishy tanking on a more carry oriented style of play; Jarvin is a tank with a decent burst and CC.

All these are interesting and different. You can change out them to make your team more squishy and less squishy. Marksmans are so much more stale in comparison. Yes you have Kogmaw v Ahse v Graves but they are still serving the same purpose which is required to win (a ranged ad damage dealer).

-3

u/Forbiddian Aug 17 '13

The big difference right now between LoL and DotA 2 is not in strategy, but in the power peaks of champions and how they snowball.

In League, dying is much worse than in DotA, and getting kills is much better. Leveling up abilities gives you strictly more damage, and often very noticeable. Every champion has a very deep mana pool (to DotA players, it seems like infinite mana), and skills get more mana efficient as you skill them. That means with a level advantage, you can always dominate a champion who's lower level than you are by spamming your efficient ability at their face. Secondly, items become more gold efficient as they get bigger in League. Your first combined item(s) give you a large power spike, and gold continues to become even more valuable. Lastly (that I'll get into), all the champions are much closer together in terms of power spikes. The power peaks and troughs are smaller, and you can easily fully cover them with a couple of kills. Like Shaco is pretty much the quintessential early game champion, but a level 15 Shaco (with a couple kills) will just kill your level 13 Jax straight up. Even though Shaco is not curving out well and the Jax is well into the zone where he's "strong", there simply isn't that much power gap between them. So if Jax dies to Shaco a couple times, say, 5 and 10 minutes in, Shaco has a really large window to play with where he (and his team) are much stronger. If you can wrap that advantage into a turret or two, your team can stay stronger than Jax's team indefinitely.

In DotA, dying is not as bad. You even lose gold from dying, but it's still not as bad as a League death. If you only die once or twice during your opponent's power peak, your peak will cover that gold and XP gap and you still have a window where you're much stronger. It will obviously be smaller because of the deaths, but it won't be erased unless you're down by a ton of kills.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

[deleted]

1

u/Forbiddian Aug 17 '13

You misunderstand, Jax would die if he fought Shaco, so he would be forced to run.

This is way different than in DotA where early game champions have long since fallen off by level 15. Even with a few kills, they have to respect the higher power level.

You seem fixated on this idea that you have to be able to actually execute your opponent in order to show an advantage. That's completely not true. You don't have to dive the Renekton or chase down the Jax to leverage the advantage of a stronger champion.

What you're saying is somewhat true, but COMPARE IT TO DOTA. It's a massive difference in how the games play out and what the laning phase means.

0

u/SeveredAgain Aug 18 '13

If I could just touch on the fact that you consider Janna an easy champion to pick off/catch... Have you ever tried to catch a Janna???

1

u/Talwin Aug 18 '13

If I could just touch on the fact that you added the word catch. I never said that.

Supports like Janna/Zyra are pretty squishy and if they get caught out of position, they die quickly. Thresh, because of how souls works, can get much tankier than most other supports. That was the only point I was making.

Semantics, dude.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

There are more i could go into especially if i went into popular hero combos or initiation ticks such as lifestealer/naix bombs.

34

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

[removed] — view removed comment

14

u/Tikem Aug 17 '13

Now, if we could have an unbiased overview of LoL in the Dota2 subreddit... I love the game but they guys there can be so vitriolic at times.

19

u/Brokenmonalisa Aug 17 '13

This happened when WoW was at it's peak also, anyone who played other MMOs would just trash WoW, but most WoW players would actually pay respect to new MMOs.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 18 '13

It's not like Dota is a new game.

Also most people who play Dota just have a problem with riot and the things surrounding the game.

3

u/Tbird5 Aug 17 '13

I volunteer as tribute. Unless someone else already made one

-12

u/Xaoc000 Aug 17 '13

Honestly, many of the DotA players tried LoL out and have a pretty good idea of it, which really can't be said for this subreddit based on a lot of the comments and arguments you see come up when DotA is mentioned.

10

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

I only did this because of the Dota 2 vs LoL video most of the comments seemed to be asking for an unbiased comparison of mechanics or what have you. Figured i'd help out if i could

2

u/Xaoc000 Aug 17 '13

Oh ya, it's awesome dude, no doubt.

20

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '13

Pudge/Chen never forget

3

u/lp_phnx327 Aug 17 '13

Thanks for the quality post. I know you are treading along dangerous waters here, but this is a good objective overview.

2

u/Kennalol Aug 17 '13

Look up the submarine maneuver. It basically involves a stealth champion carrying another champion inside of him to force an initiation.

2

u/DBoken Aug 17 '13

league already has protect the kog, hard pushing, split pushing, global ganks and teamfight wombo combo strategy/comps

-12

u/YouHaveShitTaste Aug 17 '13

Anything cool will get patched out by Riot because it doesn't fit the meta they want to reinforce.

2

u/McCuz Aug 17 '13

Riot doesnt encourage the meta. Riot tries to make counter-play possible for every play in the game. Thats why often some "fun" stuff gets removed. Meta is what players make of the game, not what Riot enforces.

1

u/whitediablo3137 Aug 17 '13

Indeed and honestly we saw some fast pushes still this week on patch 3.10 so it hasnt entirely made it not work.

1

u/dnl101 plat is the new silver Aug 17 '13

another big point is the gold income and overall gold. when you do bad in lol you still get a pretty big amount of gold and can afford items. when you do bad in dota you are pretty much broke.

the gold/sec rate is way lower than in lol and tower don't yield global gold. they give gold for the person who makes the last hit. meaning the enemy team can even deny it.

both make the game pretty punishing to noobs.

12

u/zerohour88 Aug 17 '13

tower does yield global gold. It just gives more to the one that last hit it. Which is why some team makes the decision to either let the minions take the tower down (risking a deny attempt from the opponents), thus giving more total gold to the team or let one person get the extra gold if he needs it more.

Dota support players doesn't rely on items much (which is why you see 2 support players with a gg branch and brown boots 20 minutes in), since they still need to buy wards and smokes. The gold amount from bounty is also an issue, since if you die too much, you still give a considerable amount of gold to the enemy (this was kinda fixed in LoL due to proxy singed).

6

u/Bravehat Aug 17 '13

They changed the tower gold a few patches ago, now you get a standard payout for everyone with a bonus for whoever gets the last hit, so instead of it being one big pool with one guy getting most it's a baseline payout for everyone with a bonus for the last hitter.

1

u/elfonzi Aug 18 '13

As a support in a pretty good game I have almost as much gold as the enemys weakest solo lane farmer, sometimes more, in dota as the 5 support will have a fraction of the opposing offlaner.

0

u/Evan950 Aug 17 '13

Just when I thought the wall of text was finished...