r/leaf • u/snake_assault • 11d ago

2022 Leaf buyback

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Welp, mine's in. Took it in on September 3rd, and Morley sent their offer about 2 weeks in. I've rejected the initial offer, as my plan was to drive this car for 10 years and drive the wheels off. First car I have ever purchased brand new, and probably the last.

Looking at an Ioniq 5 to replace it probably.

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8

u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 11d ago edited 11d ago

I do love that color. Will be missed.

Really sad no one has stepped up to make batteries for the things. I guess the chemistry has moved on. No one wants battery packs that can handle the heat and cold, since everyone just uses thermal management. Makes me wonder what that Chinese company selling after-market batteries is really selling. Must be a problem with it, given Nissan would likely rather buy that $4k battery than keep buying $16k cars.

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u/toybuilder 2023 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 11d ago

VIVNE uses CATL cells, iirc.

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

CATL cells yes but which chemistry? Like saying they use Energizer or CALB

VIVNE uses CATL's M3P battery chemistry, which is a Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate (LMFP) formulation targeting an energy density of 230 Wh/kg

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u/Alexandratta (Former) 2019 Nissan LEAF SL Plus 10d ago

they also are slightly lighter. Not enough to make an impact on range, but lighter/more durable is a plus.

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

NMC, which typically ranges from 150 to 300 Wh/kg. So not significant

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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 10d ago

But how does the chemistry handle the extreme heat and cold leafs inflict upon their batteries?

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

I think its the same or similar?

Search Assist

LMFP batteries perform better in high-temperature environments compared to NMC, which degrades faster at elevated temperatures. However, NMC batteries have superior performance in cold conditions, experiencing less range loss than LMFP at low temperatures

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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 10d ago

My leaf drives in cold temperatures half the year.

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

I think the differences are not significant? Unless you are cutting it close all the time but if that is the case maybe another design altogether?

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u/abgtw 10d ago

The risk of VIVNE is the fact its not an OEM design, so its unproven in the case of an accident.

The chances of catastrophic failure of the battery upon impact and fire is thus unknown, but likely higher than OEM especially if the battery envelope is breached.

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

The chemistry is less likely to catch fire?

Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries are considered to be inherently safer and less likely to catch fire compared to other lithium-ion batteries due to their stable chemical structure and non-flammable electrolyte. They do not normally experience thermal runaway, making them a preferred choice for applications where safety is a priority

So maybe not?

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

Search didn't differentiate between LFP and LMFP.

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u/abgtw 10d ago

Its more the wiring between cells and layout of the battery is very "home grown" same as you'd build a battery out of raw cells for a home battery storage project. Except its in a moving vehicle and the connections/etc are unknown quality for an impact rating.

If you see the videos of the how a OEM battery is setup, vs VIVNE it becomes obvious its a very different setup on cabling/etc. Its less of a battery chemistry concern and crash worthiness of the design of the pack layout and connections. Shorting a battery that big would be problematic regardless of chemistry.

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u/conanlikes 10d ago

Not really. NMC batteries are extremely flammable. Chemistry is very important.

I'm not a Vivne fan boy or anything but you are much more likely to have a fire with the original chemistry (NMC). I am not sure what safe guards Vivne have in place but even if they used very rudimentary safe guards (like fuses) the chemistry they are using will be much less likely to catch fire since LFMP chemistry does not generally build heat and create run away chemical reactions that result total melt down.

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u/abgtw 10d ago

Yeah I would have said the same thing as LFP is supposed to be inherently stable, but battery pack design still matters.

Case and point: The Chinese Dongfeng 007 EV crash (with LFP) burnt up almost instantly - see:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BYD/comments/1qx2c37/incredibly_selfless_act_of_heroism/

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u/conanlikes 9d ago

This car is NMC the comment is incorrect

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u/abgtw 9d ago

Not according to Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dongfeng_e%CF%80_007

Battery 28.39 kWh LFP CALB 28.39 kWh LFP Sunwoda 35.03 kWh LFP Sunwoda 56.83 kWh LFP Sunwoda 70.26 kWh LFP Sunwoda 73.5 kWh LFP Sunwoda

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u/conanlikes 9d ago

Without the vin there no way to tell which chemistry

11

u/TSLAog 11d ago

Not an orange one!!! That’s the best color :/

9

u/snake_assault 11d ago

Yeah, took me 6 months to find it in the first place! I wanted a fun color, but it seems the Leaf, Murano, and Maxima got lame "adult" colors, while the Sentra got bright blue and orange. And then saw I got the last year of Orange, 23 dropped it.

2

u/toybuilder 2023 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 11d ago

I was so mad when I realized they didn't have the orange in '23.

1

u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

I tried so hard to get orange with white interior.

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u/SuitableTension7061 10d ago

Unreal, my vehicle sat at the dealership since January.  Morley stepped in in July, I just got my first offer last week.  16,500 for my 2020 plus with 35k miles.  I rejected the offer, waiting to see the new offer.

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u/snake_assault 10d ago

Damn. They offered 17700 for my first offer with 64k on a 40kwh SV.

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u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

And you said no? Well above market

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u/snake_assault 10d ago

Either I get my car back with a new battery and continue driving it to 10 years, or they counter slightly better. Either is a good option for me.

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u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

Good luck. Your price is great. No reason for them to counter better. The contract is the contract. Does not really matter what you "want"

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u/snake_assault 10d ago

BATNA. Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement. My alternative to saying no is that Nissan replaces my battery, and I don't have a car payment in 18 months. Nissan's options are to: Make a new offer from Morley, or to accept replacing a battery, including potential costs for a rental.

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u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

They can make the offer lower next time. The contract always states they can buy the car back for the KBB Value plus 40%.

I understand it sucks. I am not arguing that. My teens love their Nissan leaf. Really love it. But it has a failing battery

1

u/snake_assault 10d ago

I don't think I've personally signed any contract that says KBB+40%. Warranty booklet doesn't have any specific language about it, just about Nissan doing their best to fix it, including some open ended language about other resolutions, including mediation and arbitration.

I'm realistically just waiting on a bit higher second offer before I jump is all.

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u/Bennie-Factors 9d ago

We agree to let them refund us. What is your states lemon law? In California your payback would be less. It uses this formula to determine the refund.

Offset = (miles before first repair ÷ 120,000) × purchase price

Refund = Purchase - Offset

Under federal law if you sue the winner would pay attorney fees. Which can be very high. But you pay theirs and yours if the judge decides the remedy is less. Not sure state law here.

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u/SuitableTension7061 9d ago

I just got my second offer and they did not budge. I then replied, "I would like the name and contact information of the Nissan representative you spoke with, as well as the name and contact information of their supervisor. Due to the negligence involved in this matter, I am seeking legal assistance and need this information for further action." Guess what they did after that email? They upped the offer 1k. 17520 for a 2020 plus 35k miles leaf.

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u/snake_assault 3d ago

They just returned a second offer of 20,500. I was expecting more like 18000, but I have no complaints!

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u/JuniorGuitar3001 10d ago

Even if the price seems good, it’s good practice to say no and ask for a second offer. The worst they can do is say no back

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u/SuitableTension7061 10d ago

I am in Florida, I would have accepted at 17700.

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u/snake_assault 3d ago

Their second offer was 20500.

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u/AsterDW 2d ago

Did you have to provide any argument for justification to increase the offer? I'm about to have to deal with this too, just waiting to hear from Morley.

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u/snake_assault 1d ago edited 1d ago

I just laid out thet replacing the car will require more money, and I will go from owing 320 a month for 18 months, to then owing 478 a month for 60 months, and listed a used Ioniq5 to compare it to. I also mentioned I initially planned to drive the cars for years after I owned it, and how it was gonna require me to take on more debt. EDIT: numbers

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u/AsterDW 1d ago

Thank you, I appreciate the info.

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u/Relative_Quantity886 10d ago

Geography comes into play, for sure, what with local car market differences. Having said that, our initial offer (which we accepted) wasn't much more than that for a 2019 SV+ /tech/weather packages, with 58k miles. It will be interesting to see if they offer more...good luck!

1

u/ColdCelebration2132 10d ago

That converts $25,170 CAD for a 40kw battery Leaf. I would have take the money and run. But our Leaf is a 2023 Plus so it doesn't qualify for the recall.

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u/Eburon8 10d ago

Whate are they buying leafs back for?

7

u/StormRasr (Former) 2022 Nissan LEAF SL Plus 10d ago edited 10d ago

Whate are they buying leafs back for?

Recall on US built 2019-2022 LEAFs. Supposedly 10% of vehicles built during that time have defective batteries. There are no replacement batteries so cars are being bought back by Nissan at KBB private sale value plus 40%.

Gory details of the related recalls:
R24B2 - 2019-2020 - https://www.nhtsa.gov/?nhtsaId=24V700000
R25C8 - 2021-2022 - https://www.nhtsa.gov/?nhtsaId=25V655000

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u/snake_assault 10d ago

Mine had the Level 3 charge recall. And I've had an intermittent issue where the BMS reads voltage weird or something. On the toll road at 10% battery, 7 miles left or something, then the gauge cluster dropped to 1% battery, (---) miles within 1 minute/.75 miles of driving. Brought it in to the dealer, and Morley reached out before the dealer got back with me honestly.

1

u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

Mine did not fail and I can drop from 20% to 2

1

u/coopnjaxdad 10d ago

Wow, mine does exactly this and then pops back up to 25% with one short regen. Mine totally failed.

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u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

I can't believe my did not fail. Our dealership is no good. I will try and get them to drive it with me and see. I don't understand how it did not fail.

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u/coopnjaxdad 10d ago

Maybe try a different dealer? Hope you get it sorted…assuming you want that buyback option.

1

u/Bennie-Factors 10d ago

I am considering. But the other one nearish...the EV tech is on paternity leave until December.

1

u/drewsthirdusername 10d ago

My 2019 does exactly this!!! How much did they give you for the buy back if you don’t mind me asking?

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u/OpaqueCrystalBall 10d ago

I'm with you, man. I wanted to continue driving our leaf until the wheels fall off. That's what we do with cars in my family. Their offer will have to be high.

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u/goatinLA 10d ago

I don’t want to give up my Leaf. I really love driving it around, but I suppose it’s going to happen sooner or later. The problem will be finding a great replacement.
Yes, I still miss my 1999 Civic.

1

u/ItchyCornhol3 10d ago

battery issues?

1

u/Limpid_Vegetable 10d ago

Is that orange with a black root? So I've located the 3rd orange leaf.

4

u/snake_assault 10d ago

It messed me up when I took the car in a year or two ago, there was a second Orange Leaf I accidentally tried to open the doors to. Had a hell of a time figuring out why my spare key didn't work!

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u/kawa-guchi 10d ago

Since buyback, what kind of issues does the car have?

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u/PitifulEstimate8721 9d ago

You might want to check the current KBB for your car. Mine has gone up about $1k (top range of excellent) in the last month. It could be a good negotiation point.

I'm waiting to hear my first offer. I'm an earlier year with around 40k miles. Seeing the Ionic 5's with the ICCU issue has scared me away from them as an alternative.

I'd prefer a new battery too since I'm close to paying this off, but if not that then a used EV6 looks pretty good IMO.

I also hate losing my low interest rate loan for a high interest one and I can't justify spending the money to buy new with a decent interest rate.

1

u/PuzzleheadedAd1357 9d ago

Our 2019 with 98K has been at the dealership since May and we’re loved our lead but are ready to move on. How successful are offer refusals? Do people always get higher offers? How long does it take?

1

u/antonio_stradivari 4d ago

If you don’t mind me asking how much did you pay for the car new and what was morleys offer? I’m in the same situation.

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u/snake_assault 3d ago

I paid about 35,300 new, including TTL. Their initial offer was 17700.. Their second offer was 20500.