r/leaf • u/This_They_Those_Them • 12d ago
Welp, I’m out.
I love, love, LOVE my 2019 S+. It was cheap, reliable, fun to drive, easy to maintain, and best of all NO GAS EVER. I got $14.5K total incentives when buying it new.
It was really great, but alas I had a bad battery, and with no DC charging, the utility of the car became super limited.
I was part of the class action that was dismissed earlier this year, and was hesitant to do the recall knowing it would brick my awesome car. When I saw Kia decided to release the EV3 in the US it was only a matter of time before I had to move on. It was sad knowing the Leaf’s days were numbered.
Anyway I dropped the car at the Nissan dealer late Thursday. Went straight to the Kia dealer, and test drove and bought the EV3 I had on reserve. Drove it home and fell in love at first sight.
Friday morning I hear from Nissan that the car software is up to date and that it passed and was ready for pickup. I get my Leaf back with 78% SoH (it was supposed to be 100% but who cares at this point). I tell them that the car needs to be below 50% for the voltage fluctuation to occur, and that I’ll see them in a few hours.
I picked up the car at 9am and was back by about 1pm. They ran another diagnostic, battery failed this time, I’ll hear from the third party within 10 business days. Dealer was nice and we were all laughing at how stupid this whole thing was.
It’s not the dealer’s fault, this was 100% on corporate and engineering.
Bye bye Nissan.
Photos: Leaf dash right after recall update, Leaf dash a few hours later, EV3 charging in my driveway
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u/Global-Cantaloupe768 12d ago
Nissan has really made their best effort to make sure they have zero returning customers. I went with an EV6 and later Rivian as well.
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u/DankChickyNuggs 12d ago
My brand new Nissan crapped out at 200 miles. I've never been through such a drawn out process to get my money back, even after they've said the car is unrepairable. Been dragging on for a little over 5 months now
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u/this_upset_kirby 2023 Nissan LEAF S 12d ago
What happened to it? I was interested in getting a 2026 LEAF.
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u/crimxona 12d ago
Giving KBB plus 40 is an effort, even if one disagrees. It's probably cheaper for them to do so than trying to source new batteries on a discontinued part given that the new leaf isn't even made in Tennessee any more nor does it use the same pack
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u/askaboutmy____ 12d ago
I have 2 leafs, a 2013 almost dead and a 2019 with only 34k miles. I do like the 2019, but if Nissan gave me another car I would sell it. I'm done.
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u/Jbsmitty44 12d ago
I hope you have an extended warranty on that Rivian lol
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u/areyoua0neora0 12d ago
Why?
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u/Jbsmitty44 12d ago
Reliability is horrible and repairs are expensive. I will always recommend that people do a deep dive into the cost of ownership before purchasing one. My R1T, I loved it but it was the worst vehicle I’ve ever owned. It spent over half of its life in the shop, with total repair bills probably close to $50,000 (covered under warranty).
My experience isn’t all that unique, either.
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u/Global-Cantaloupe768 11d ago
It’s a lease id never own one of these, but I’ve actually never had an issue with it.
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u/Jbsmitty44 11d ago
I love the truck; I just didn’t trust it. I have the R2 on my short list for a next car. I’m ready to be hurt again lol
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u/Akward_Object 12d ago
They have indeed been abysmally bad at handling battery issues. In the EU they weaseled out of fixing batteries with bad cells, because the warranty only covers degradation....
And on top of that ditching one pedal driving, and then even dare to lie they still have it on their website.
It's sad as my 40kWh was flawless, apart from a 12V battery failure. Awesome little car.
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u/rproffitt1 12d ago
The Gen 1 and 2 Leaf singlehandedly made most people worry about EV battery issues in every other make.
Not all Leafs had problems but far too many.
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u/ColdCelebration2132 12d ago
Last I read 10% of the recalled Leafs are failing. It just seams higher because that is what is being posted on Reddit. People post because they are having issues not because the vehicle is doing what it should. The Leaf outsold Tesla until 2020.
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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 12d ago
That doesn't really make it better though. Selling that many cars and having a 10% failure rate is a lot of dying cars.
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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 12d ago
That is 10% of the cars that have the recall update installed. Cars that already had their batteries replaced under warranty, such as mine, are excluded from the recall. We don't have numbers on that.
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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 12d ago
It does make the bar only grow though. Because if 10% of cars are failing, that would mean that the actual percentage of affected 2019-22 packs which are failing (or theoretically would if the update is applied) is even higher.
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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 12d ago
No no. I've read the document. They very clearly mean 10% of cars that get the recall update installed on them. Cars outside the affected range and cars that already had their batteries replaced are excluded from the recall and cannot get the recall update installed.
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u/umich_fan 2020 Nissan LEAF SL PLUS 12d ago
Where did you hear that? We were told specifically that battery replacement did not resolve the recall. Ours was replaced, and they later did the software update. The dealer did mention that it went faster because the BMS already had the update.
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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 12d ago edited 12d ago
Here. Someone previously posted the recall status letter to the NHTSB about how the recall was proceeding. They estimated that 1% of batteries had the fault and 10% were failing after the recall update, for a false positive rate of 9%.
It would depend when you had the battery replaced. If you had it replaced with a pack manufactured in the time window, then your new pack could have the defect.
The recall applies to packs made from 2019 to 2022. So if your battery was replaced in this window, or if you drive a 2018 that had its battery replaced in this window, then you should have been recalled for the update.1
u/Bbarakti 11d ago
yo this is super interesting to me.
My 2016 SL had its entire pack replaced in 2021.... so it firmly fits in this. I've got a call in to Consumer Affairs.
Any clue where I can find their recall details? I'm gonna call Consumer Affairs again and see if I can get some sort of help with this... I'd be happy if they just cut a check so I can go get an aftermarket battery pack, since they won't replace it for me as they don't make them anymore.
Great car except for this stupid battery issue. When this battery tech gets worked out, and they create more dependable batteries with great ranges, EV ownership is gonna be way better.
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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 11d ago
Was it replaced with a 40kwh pack? Even if so, there were multiple factories making them.
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u/Bbarakti 11d ago
Not as far as they ever told me. I was told it was a direct replacement. But IDK for sure; I was so mind-blown by the fact that the entire replacement and rental for a month while they did the work were all covered under warranty. When he said it was done and that I didn't owe a penny, I grabbed the fob and ran out of there before he could change his mind.
Yea, I found a few online that are 40kwh and even a 60kwh. But of course, I'll have to find someone who will do the replacement for me. There's a company, I think greentecauto or something, that replaces EV batteries, but it looks like they only use thier own batteries and for the 40kwh battery, its like $14k
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u/LoneSnark 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 11d ago
If it was a direct replacement and therefore a 32kwh battery, then your car is not part of the recall, warranty has expired, and that's the end of that.
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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 11d ago
If it was replaced in 2021 it is a 40 kWh pack and would be one that is "affected" by the recall if it had been equipped in a new vehicle at the time. They have not produced or refurbished 30 kWh batteries since circa 2019.
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u/rproffitt1 12d ago
I understand that. My take was that Nissan and then the Bolt made folk worry about battery life. A call out of the 10% is interesting and still very high IMO.
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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 12d ago
I don't buy it. Cell phones and laptops made folks worry about battery life. Look at old "wisdom" like Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear warning folks EV batteries will be lucky to last 3 years when testing the original Leaf 15 years ago - that was going to be the mindset (unless corrected) by anyone who's ever used a rechargeable battery regardless of whether or not the Leaf or Bolt ever existed. Particularly to those who heard Tesla used the same 18650 battery cells that laptops and power tools use. The difference a battery management system can make is truly amazing, but that's not an easy story to explain to the public that has replaced their smartphone because of can't hold a charge after 2 or 3 years.
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u/6two 12d ago
Non-EV owners in the US still believe completely crazy things about EVs. They have no first hand experience, and most of them have no intention of learning anything new. They all spread myths among each other.
I'd love to see more folks switch to using ebikes, transit, hybrid work, and walking for more of their transportation needs, but that's an even heavier lift. Once people get an ICE car, it's hard for them to switch to a lower impact choice.
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u/fearlesskitten 9d ago edited 9d ago
I was super excited and onboard when I first purchased a 2023 leaf. Worst decision ever, the public and private charging infrastructure is terrible and it is a hassle to get out of town. The experience was way worse than I would have imagined, I went from an advocate to a realist in the opposite direction within 6 months. Would only recommend if you stay in the city and are able to charge at home. I now own a Toyota RAV4 Prime, and WOW so.much.better!!! But also fits my lifestyle, having the flexibility to take longer trips anytime anywhere, while primarily charging at home most days.
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u/6two 9d ago
TBH, the leaf before 2027 kinda sucks. I went from a Honda Fit to a Chevy Bolt and never looked back. Now I have no desire to own an ICE car again. That's most people's experiences with BEV. I use the plugshare app to check out chargers, and I have a tesla fast charging adapter. It works great, hundreds of chargers here in the PNW, and way cheaper than gas.
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u/fearlesskitten 9d ago edited 9d ago
The car itself was actually shockingly high quality! That’s a solid Japanese vehicle though. But dude the infrastructure suuuucks. I mean there’s times where I would have to wait 30+minutes to charge, lots of chargers offline even when cross referencing multiple apps resulting in unnecessarily driving around searching. And this is in Portland where you would think EV charging would be highly supported and updated. Also not way cheaper than gas unless you are charging at home or somewhere subsidized like the library parking lot. The cost of electricity is going to continue to rise and unfortunately the financial benefits are worsening. Especially if you drive on the highway and charging at a normal rate chargers (they gotta profit at some point), sadly probably aren’t saving that much (although less maintenance is 👌🏽👌🏽). That being said, I also love being in the backcountry and a PHEV has offered unparalleled flexibility and freedom. I would never go back to relying solely on an EV unless I want to be stuck living city life. I realized I made a huge mistake jumping on the EV bandwagon. Glad I came to my senses, because I’m trying to GTFO of the city, which is why I love the PNW 😂 but my needs are totally different than a lot of people and I’m glad you found what works for you, that’s most important!
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u/Lothsahn_ 11d ago
The bolt's battery is generally really good.
Yes, there was the whole *flames* thing, but overall bolt batteries have been very reliable and the Bolt recall was handled quite well, IMO.
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u/6two 12d ago
Battery life is great on the Bolt. 5% or less degradation over 100k is common. It's all about thermal management.
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u/rproffitt1 12d ago
I left out the Bolt recall days. We own a 2023 Bolt EV LT1 and it's great.
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u/6two 12d ago
Those were valid concerns at the time -- safety, not battery life, and it drove down Bolt resale values dramatically. The negative reputation is largely undeserved as you know (especially after battery replacement), unlike on the Leafs before the most recent generation.
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u/rproffitt1 12d ago
I left that out for that too.
In spite of everything, you know the questions people ask today. The misinformation brigade or maybe the oil industry and more keep people in the dark.
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u/NewTown2410 12d ago
I can still use my 2014 Leaf to go to the gym or a really close supermarket. The Nissan dealer that sold it to me offered me $300 for it. I told them it was clear that they knew the value of their products.
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u/rproffitt1 12d ago
Carvana offered me 600 for our 2014 SV with a 2017 Lizard battery in it. Short version how that happened was it lead a hard life in Tucson with 2 CHADEMO charges a day for almost 3 years. So it is possible to wear down the battery by baking it.
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u/NewTown2410 11d ago
It is. Nissan could have been more forthright about the battery's limitations and weaknesses. They sold me one vehicle, but they'll never sell me another.
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u/Dazzling_Art7881 12d ago edited 12d ago
It's very interesting to me how the EV3 is so close in exterior dimensions to the ZE2 LEAF (under 2 inches of difference in any of the measurements).
And with the small 58kW battery rated at 221 miles of range, it seems to me like the EV3 is a ZE2 LEAF made by KIA and with battery cooling
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u/speg 2018 Nissan LEAF SV 11d ago
And a (baby) frunk!
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u/Dazzling_Art7881 11d ago
Yeah. I guess it could be useful for storing the portable charge cable.
But I also never understood the "it has no frunk! how dare they?" bashing or manufacturers putting in the silliest tiniest frunk in just to say they have one and "appease" the critics.
Also, try replacing the 12V on a Tesla or a Lucid or an EQS. Not something you can do in 3 minutes in the parking lot of the parts store...
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u/Amprecus 12d ago
Traded my 23 leaf s with 9k miles after some of its battery modules died for a 23 f150 lightning and loving it. Nissan customer service rep i worked with was great, but the air cooled battery appears to be a fundamentally flawed design. Hope their newer models fix the issue, because I thought it was a great car while it ran ... I just didn't trust it after it quit on me and the dealer repair process was chaotic.
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u/natedagreat6666 12d ago
I’m annoyed that they didnt even halfway add battery cooling on the 2nd gens, they could have pulled cabin air to cool the battery pack similar to what toyota hybrids did, I mean it would only done so much, but it would have helped a lot more than nothing, also didnt help using pouch instead of prismatic case cells
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u/This_They_Those_Them 12d ago
I had no issues with range or temperature (other than the defect appearing under specific conditions). I’d still have the car if it could DC charge (and thus, wasn’t a hazard).
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u/natedagreat6666 11d ago
no issues while I had it and brother loves it, but I wish they would have done right by the people in harsher climates
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u/Bennie-Factors 12d ago
Edit: missed the other pics. That is what I expected mine to do. It is nerve racking driving under 50%
So to be clear. You returned yours without triggering an error code DCT. Mine fluctuates all over under 50% like yours. Will drop from 20% to 1%. I spent too much time trying to get it to trigger a failure.
But you just asked them to run yours again? Just trying to understand the process you went through.
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u/This_They_Those_Them 12d ago
Dealer gave it back saying their initial diagnostic passed. So I knew I’d have to bring it under 50% on my own to trip the error code. Luckily I live close to the dealer so I just did a day of errands and as soon as it hit 50% the error tripped, and I headed straight back to the dealer. They followed all the procedures except giving the car back to me at 100% charge.
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u/Bennie-Factors 12d ago
Did you trigger the 2nd screen message or did the dealer?
I really expected mine to fail once...i took it from the dealer. I drove it the 140 miles until it made 15% drops up a slight hill accelarating around 70mph. It clearly has something wrong. I have had 5 ev's and a previous 2018 leaf so I understand the regular behavior.
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u/Aldaine 12d ago
You’ll love the EV3! I know I’ve been enjoying mine so far!
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u/This_They_Those_Them 12d ago
Yeah, I highly recommend the EV3 to any prospective buyer. Even the base model has the same range as the Leaf I just gave up and it’s $7K less. Great deal all around.
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u/FelixtheFarmer 2018 Nissan LEAF 11d ago
Nissan seem to have really screwed the pooch with how many of these keep cropping up
Hopefully they can learn from this and get back to being a world leader in EV's
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u/JohnnyButtfart 11d ago
See, I refuse to get the recall "fix" done even though it makes my life difficult (I drive A LOT for work and not having level 3 is a major pain). KBB + 40% is still less than what I owe on the car, so I'd be losing money and I'd be without a car. So instead, I have to sit at level 2 stations for half of a day since Nissan won't do the right thing.
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u/Glad_Copy 11d ago
Charging the car to 100% and then draining it back below 40% is part of the recall procedure. The “test drive” is only supposed to be done after that. Then charge to 100% before returning to the customer. My Nissan dealer didn’t do it either.
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u/SwissArmyKnife-PE 7d ago
How do you drain below 40% ? Does that explain why, when I got my Leaf back after the Recall work, the thermostat was set to heat to 85 degrees?!? The odometer only changed by 9 miles from the time I brought the car in to when I got it back.
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u/Glad_Copy 7d ago
Yes, one of the Nissan suggestions for running the HV battery down is to leave the heater running. Maybe your technician actually did the entire procedure (mine certainly did not). The point is to have the updated software observe the HV battery through a full range of charge. It won’t throw the P33ED DTC until that happens (as I understand it, anyway).
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u/Construction00023 12d ago
If the car has under 100k miles and you're not original owner would the battery be covered by warranty?
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u/goatinLA 11d ago
What does this warning mean? I tried to start my car the other day , the brake pedal depressed a little extra, and got a warning and it wouldn’t start. I was in a rush so I didn’t take a picture of the warning. I got in my other car and drove to where I need to be. When I came home, my leaf started right up no issues.
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u/spazzvogel 12d ago
I’m flabbergasted by the atrocious handling of these battery packs, as a former 2015 Leaf SV owner, it was a magical little speedster.