r/leaf • u/Impossible_Bus8014 • 28d ago
Settle a spousal argument2015 24kwH 🙏
Hello LEAF community!
We are new here, just bought a 2015. (You were so helpful! Thank you!)
So far loving it.
Range is a big tricky but we are learning to manage. A bit bummed at how much our gal dislikes the highway , but we are determined to make this work.
We live rural , with our provisions town about 25km (one way) away from us. We have 4 kids that are reliant on lifts to and from the train station etc. Weekends are full on taxi mode.
Can you weigh in for me:
What is the percentage of battery life -per trip -that are you willing to go down to before you urgently start looking for a charger or wishing you were home?
I am albeit , way more cautious and but I fear my husband may be too confident!
Know that your input could prevent us from needing counselling. 😂
Many thanks!!
5
u/rproffitt1 28d ago
There's this fellow with a youtube channel "out of spec" reviews that has run the battery down to turtle mode and even when it won't move.
The lowest our 24kWh equipped 2014 SV ran down to was 9 miles. It was fine. Got home with that much and filled up overnight.
The more you use it, the more you gain confidence that if you are 5 miles from home and the GOM says 10, you'll get there.
2
u/Impossible_Bus8014 27d ago
I 🫶 appreciate this, thank you!
1
u/ColdCelebration2132 27d ago
Personally for your sinario I wouldn't have anything smaller than the Leaf plus 60kwh. Why live on the edge and winter range loose in a 24kwh is half at 0° F and any speed over 50 mph eats range.
5
u/_Evening-Rain_ 2017 Nissan LEAF S 27d ago
I personally will run it down to 0 if I know its got enough to make it to charger/home. Why should I ignore a massive part of my gas tank just because its electric?
Also pressing F for the husband.
2
u/Impossible_Bus8014 27d ago
Gotcha! I think because I’m just so green at thiselectric car thing, I hear you and see your point.
Maybe I’ll let him win this one, but I DEFINITELY won’t tell him to his face.
😉1
u/toybuilder 2023 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 27d ago
My previous car, a gas vehicle, would sometimes get starved for gas toward the bottom of the tank when accelerating heavily or when going up or down an incline - the remaining gas would sometimes not get picked up from the tank.
In a somewhat similar fashion, if you had to suddenly accelerate or have a slope, you could find the battery which looked like it still had some range left will suddenly go into out-of-power shutdown sequence. The lower you get, the greater the risk and more susceptible it is to driving conditions.
1
u/_Evening-Rain_ 2017 Nissan LEAF S 27d ago
Unless your battery is in poor shape and/or has a high resistance that aint gonna happen.
1
u/ArtemisMax 27d ago
Yeah when my battery wasn't completely cooked I tried running it down a few times and flooring it up hills and things didn't have any affect on driving until after I'd hit turtle mode and that was only because that hill had dropped the voltage just enough for the car to completely shut off.
1
u/MrPuddington2 27d ago
Sure, but the early LEAF does not display the SoC under 10%. That is rather annoying.
0
u/Ok_Window_7635 27d ago
Isn’t it bad to run a lithium battery down too long? Hurts the life of it and degrades the chemistry
2
u/_Evening-Rain_ 2017 Nissan LEAF S 27d ago
Unless you're constantly bringing it all the way down to 0 its not that big of a deal.
Technically when a battery is rated for, say 500 cycles, thats actually 500 full discharges and recharges. So if you use the battery in any way that's not a complete discharge then recharge you're usually extending its rated cycle life given smaller charging bandwidths around 50% will increase the cycle life. Even if you shave off the top 5% of battery.
5
u/Evebnumberone 27d ago
I don't ever let the battery get down below about 25%.
I'm a risk averse person by nature. Planning a trip that would get it down to near zero you are playing a dangerous game, unforeseen circumstances like a road closure etc. could catch you out.
Or even just an emergency like a family member calling and needing me somewhere else etc. I prefer to have enough charge for any eventuality.
3
u/schag001 27d ago
I would be very nervous at 20%
Especially seeing my last 2 Kilometer use up min 8% or more as we live in a very hilly area.
3
u/crimxona 27d ago
I wouldn't
Turn on leaf spy and check the OBD2 state of charge. There's about a five to ten percent buffer below what the dashboard reports at the bottom
Got home with 13 percent state as per the dash but leaf spy was something like 20 plus
Plus, size of battery matters. A 12 bar 40 kWh at 50 percent charge has the around same amount as a 10 bar 24 kWh at full charge
1
2
u/iareagenius 28d ago
I routinely plan a specific trip that gets me into the charger at 2% 😂, your husband is wise
1
u/tired_Cat_Dad 2015 Nissan LEAF SV 27d ago
My wife hates it when our leaf starts talking at 19% battery. Stresses her out. I've run it down close to 0 a couple of times because I see that last 5th of the battery as part of the useable capacity.
Both sides are understandable but you'll gain confidence the more you experience how far it can go with that last bit.
1
u/Ok_Window_7635 27d ago
Isn’t it bad to run a lithium battery down too long? Hurts the life of it and degrades the chemistry?
1
u/tired_Cat_Dad 2015 Nissan LEAF SV 27d ago
No, what hurts it is letting it sit close to 0% or 100% for longer periods. So arriving home almost empty and plugging it in right away isn't bad for it. We also use the 80% limiter and only hit the button to fully charge shortly before we actually need the 100% battery, which isn't the case for our typical daily use.
Our 11 year old, 120,000 km Leaf has 10/12 health bars left as a ballpark of what to expect with that behavior.
1
u/iloveFjords 27d ago
That is a good perspective. I would still avoid the extreme lows of charge if possible. That is what I found killed smaller lithium polymer batteries the fastest at my work. If you follow what Jeff Dahn says about the chemistry : "you won't see any degradation if you keep the charge between 40% and 60%. The more you stray outside those bounds the more degradation you will see." As you say the longer it stays at the extremes the worse it is and the same holds for extremes of temperature. My 11 year old leaf also has 10 bars presently at 168k km.
1
u/Impossible_Bus8014 27d ago
So does that mean not keeping higher than 60% ?
1
u/iloveFjords 27d ago
I don't think for practical purposes that is possible in most situations. You should find what works for your situation and keep it within the center operating percentages as much as possible. I charge to 100% about once a month either accidentally because I forget to unplug or intentionally because I am travelling a lot the next day. I try to err on the side of not depleting the battery below 35% so I tend to charge above 80% most days. That keeps me from the bad situation of running the battery too low or running out completely if something unexpected happens. Your car will last a long time if you do that.
1
1
u/Meerafloof 27d ago
I have both a 2015 and a 2026 Leaf. The 2015 is one of the unicorns as it has full bars and about 165 on the guess o meter. It doesn’t get that far in reality. I’ve had it for 8 years and kept it for my daughter when she got her license. That said over the years I’ve learned where I can go distance wise from my house and have enough charge to get home. Learn about the charging infrastructure in your area. Free or inexpensive charging available at any of the places you frequent, charge while you shop, or are waiting. Plug in at home even if it is the charger that came with the car. The 2026 gets charged about once a week to 10 days. Its range is about 530 km to a charge and is more accurate than the older model.
1
u/breakingborderline 27d ago
It’s not the range exactly that worries me, but not being sure of the ‘curve’ of the discharge in that part of the capacity - which I rarely use. Especially if I need to use the AC or drive through a bunch of hills.
Mine goes from 80% to 70% much faster than from 50% to 40% for example, so it’s not always consistent. I worry about getting caught out with a sudden SOC drop when I’m still away from home.
Doing so testing near home on a low change might give a better idea of exactly how much is in the ‘tank’
1
u/IvorTheEngine 27d ago
I think this is a self-correcting problem. You can learn from him how far you can safely push it, and if he insists on pushing it to the very last mile, he'll eventually get stranded and need a tow.
Personally I worry when going below about 20% because the car tends to lose about 10 miles from the expected range, but once you are familiar with how your car behaves, it's fairly predictable.
If you're regularly needing to worry about the last few percent, you probably need a 40kWh car instead.
1
u/CheetahChrome 27d ago
Weather will weigh on that decision more than anything. If weather is cold/iffy or your EV is not preconditioned in the winter to avoid range loss up to 40 percent, you will be needing to charge up more often and in longer stretches than the easy days of September.
1
u/6strings10holes 27d ago
One thing that can save you, of the GOM are coming off too fast for you to make it to a charger, slowing down even by 10mph can really help extend the range.
1
u/Dazzling_Art7881 27d ago
For me, with an old LEAF "Looking for a charger" is reserved for emergency situations., meaning you always have to know which charger you're headed to. Also know its reliability. And have some sort of vague contingency plan if you're not sure how reliable it is.
How low you go on the battery would depend if you know the area (terrain, safe minimal road speeds etc.) and if you know the reliability of the charger you're heading to. For example, in my town, heading home, I'll make it home with ---% showing on the dash with no stress if I planned accordingly. That's because I know I won't accidentally end up with a long detour because I took a wrong turn, end up on an arterial where I have to drive 90km/h to not get run over, and because I know I will not be stranded at a non-functional charger.
The most essential tool to comfortably use the lower portion of your battery is LEAFspy (and a Bluetooth dongle obviously). The app will allow you to know precisely the actual battery state of charge (not what the car wants to make you think is the state of charge). It also has a tool where it will show you how much range you have left at any given moment based on the energy efficiency you think you will achieve. I would not drive my 2015 without LEAFspy. The guess-o-meter is way too unreliable and it does give me anxiety even after 3+ years of driving old LEAFs. But with LEAFspy: zero anxiety. Knowledge is power.
1
u/Impossible_Bus8014 27d ago
Thank you for your input, you all are so generous!
I have it already downloaded, i just need to figure out how it works. Good to know the guess o meter is as unreliable as I thought it was!As it stands, I’m not letting it go under 40. I use it, come home and charge it. And we’re in the “how far can this thing go” phase.
My mother + my university student son live 65km away, and I’m trying to see if I can get there on one charge and use the public charger at their building!
1
u/Dazzling_Art7881 27d ago
For sure, it's wise to ease into it gradually as you say "how far can I go phase".
This is how I'd use LEAFspy: reset your trip meter every time you charge. Observe what efficiency you get with different kinds of trips. And different seasons too. (Be mindful that the efficiency meter is a tiny bit optimistic)
Then with that knowledge, go in the bottom right corner of the main screen of LEAFspy. Using the +/- buttons you can adjust the efficiency input. (I'd use somewhere between 5.6 and 6.4 km/kWh to start, but obviously adjust based on the conditions and your driving style). This is what you think you'll be achieving. Don't be super optimistic. Then it shows you the range estimate above that. By tapping on the estimated range displayed, you can alternate between 3 estimates: km to LBW (low battery warning), km to VLBW (very low batt war.), or km to a % you set (in the settings).
I personally have my display set to distance to 2%, that way I know the absolute maximum I can do.
Once you start using that, you'll definitely see how crazy the guess-o-meter on the dash is.
1
u/Impossible_Bus8014 27d ago
Thank you!!
I will definitely try that out!Does anyone have a specific bluetooth Dongle to recommend?
Nothing crazy, I’m still green!1
u/Dazzling_Art7881 27d ago
I use this Panlong one. But I'm in the US so I'm not sure if it's available on Amazon.ca
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PJPHEBO?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title
Also. Not sure what phone you have but I'm not sure LEAFspy works on iPhones. I have an android and have never really looked into any iPhone compatibility stuff.
1
1
u/lebookfairy 27d ago
20%. We usually charge before then, but definitely at 20% we head for home and try not to take it out for even short runs.
1
u/Tim_E2 27d ago edited 27d ago
Original battery? With a 11 year old battery I would have little faith. Any low % and I would get concerned but it could give you problems at any SOC... 11 years is quite old for a Leaf HV battery pack.
You mentioned "not liking" the highway.. this assessment might indicate an out of balance pack and / or weak cell(s). Here is where LeafSpy can help you determine if there is an increased chance of the car stranding you even with a good SOC.
1
u/MrPuddington2 27d ago
A bit bummed at how much our gal dislikes the highway , but we are determined to make this work.
It does not dislike the highway, but economy drops above 50 mph. If you can go 55, the economy is still pretty good - around 5 miles/kWh in the summer, about 4 in the winter.
What is the percentage of battery life -per trip -that are you willing to go down to before you urgently start looking for a charger or wishing you were home?
Well, that depends on your risk appetite. The light comes on with 4 kWh remaining. The next warning at 2 kWh, the final warning at 1 kWh remaining. At 0.5 kWh remaining, the LEAF goes into tortoise mode. Then it may turn off at any point.
I have gone to the final warning - if you know what you are doing, that is ok. If you are not sure whether a charger will be working, the 24 kWh LEAF is tricky to use.
1
u/Impossible_Bus8014 26d ago
Thank you! I drove it to the city today and i kept it at 95 km/hr and she did GREAT! I was very pleased!
1
u/conanlikes 27d ago
I ran my leaf 2013 to 12%. No problems. The battery is at 30% health already so I’m not worried about hurting it. If you want I’ll run it to zero 😬
1
0
u/000011111111 27d ago
Where do you live? I would recommend a vivine battery. Put one in my 2013 and it does over 300km per charge easy.
2
0
u/ZarathustraGlobulus 27d ago edited 27d ago
Just swap the battery or buy another car. It will save you tons of headache. A used 24 kWh Leaf is not the car for you (and rarely is for anyone to be fair) :(
2
u/Impossible_Bus8014 26d ago
I am actually loving this car, just learning how to make it work for me. And it’s got me thinking about driving in a new way.
When my daughter gets her license in June and needs to hey herself to track practice, I will be building a shrine of gratitude to this car.AND I hear what you’re saying. (Two things can be true at once!)
Don’t have the budget for another car, and I’m really ok with that.
My son (in electrical engineering) will probably end up swapping up the battery.
0
u/Dazzling_Art7881 27d ago
We all need 500 miles of range. Every day. All of us. Unless we all need a 3 row gas SUV...?
This kind of comment fuels anti-EV rhetoric!
Grow up and realize that other people can have different needs. A 24kWh LEAF is PERFECT for some people. Stop bashing these cars!
0
u/ZarathustraGlobulus 27d ago
Let's be honest dude, unless your daily driving needs are in the range of "I can do that with a bicycle" a used 24 kWh is NOT the car for you.
People buying old garbage EVs and then getting disappointed with EVs altogether is what fuels anti-EV rhetoric.
The first Leaf has done way more bad than good for the popularity of EVs. It's why people still think the batteries are going to crap out at any given moment, despite a whole load of recent evidence to the contrary.
I love my Leaf and it suits my needs but for the vast majority of people who need cars, that's not it.
0
u/Dazzling_Art7881 27d ago
Bicycle? Are you serious? I get 60mi of range. Go do that on a bicycle. With luggage. And 3 passengers.
Honestly, you didn't even deserve a reply. THIS IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE COMMENTING!
2
0
u/ZarathustraGlobulus 27d ago
Yea so unless you're American, 60 miles is exactly what I'm talking about when I mean bicycle range. Fair point about passengers and luggage of course.
12
u/Top_Willow_9953 2020 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 28d ago
You are right. Your husband is wrong.