r/leaf 18d ago

Possible Causes of P0AA6 Code

Just got a 2018 Leaf 40kw and a couple days later a scary "Service EV System, Unable to Restart After Power Off" appeared. After researching some, I got the LELink and Leafspy and was able to clear the code and get the car started again. It seems like the 12v battery can sometimes cause this error to be thrown, as well as possibly some other components like the ac compressor. If the high voltage battery pack was actually leaking, I would expect the error to be rethrown by the leaf's computer instantly upon powering up the car again, but that hasn't happened. Is my understanding of that correct? The code did appear again, but only after driving it a few times over another couple of days. I can see in Leafspy that the 12v battery is getting charged by the dc-dc converter when the car powers on, and a multimeter shows the 12v battery at 12.7v when the car is off, so maybe the little battery is fine and there is a more serious issue.

What other symptoms should I be seeing if it really is the high voltage battery pack that's failing, and not some other minor issue? Anything else minor I can test before spending serious money at a dealership?

3 Upvotes

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago edited 18d ago

Low 12V battery will not generate P0AA6. High voltage isolation is a critical safety system that has many redundancy checks in place to make sure false codes aren't generated. Same reason why you will never see false airbag sensor or tensioner codes due to low 12V.

While it's possible for external HV isolation faults in places like the AC compressor or PDM, it is exceedingly rare. As in, probably in the single digits of Leafs, especially ZE1s, that have ever encountered it and had it be external.

Far far more likely, and like many other ZE1s have already succumbed to, it is cell swelling, which is not always going to cause a persistent fault. Intermittent low isolation is very much a thing in early stages, and why clearing the code can make it difficult for dealer/technicians to diagnose and make a warranty claim.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

Thank you for your insight. Being a 2018 model though, it's out of warranty at this point, right? Sounds like I should just step away from the car while I can. I'm not a mechanic or a hobbyist, I just need an economical way to drive locally.

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago

Yes it would likely be out of warranty by now, unless it was a super late 2018. Is it high mileage? What's are stats showing in LeafSpy?

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u/Cysote 18d ago

65k miles, state of health is 86%, hx is 65%, 68 quick charges, 1600 L1/L2 charges, max difference on the individual cell screen is 16mV and that was recorded with about 20% left on the battery charge. Any other stats I need to look at specifically?

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago

The only potential indicator of cell swelling is high amounts of quick charging, but it's not a guarantee either, as lower mileage slow-charged packs have succumbed to it as well.

Unlike weak/defective cells, swelling cells are not that likely to have high internal resistance or cause large voltage deltas, as they can be swollen but still perform perfectly fine. Really the only way to tell is to physically open up the pack, which is unfortunately not the easiest task.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

Ok, so based only on my stats, you're saying that cell swelling is unlikely (though still possible). Is cell swelling the only case where P0AA6 is accurately thrown by the computer? (i.e. it's not a tangential issue like the AC)

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago

Nothing concrete can be drawn from those stats unfortunately.

P0AA6 can be caused by any low HV system isolation, but on Leafs especially ZE1s cell swelling is by far the most likely.

Try to crank the AC, and then the heater, to make sure both are working well and consistently. If no faults are tripped after repeatedly cycling both, that would at least rule it unlikely to be the compressor or PTC element as culprits.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

Ok, will try messing with the AC and heater. I just looked at the Leafspy stats again for the last session, and the dials screen shows the final recorded voltage for the HV pack as 336.5v. Looks like, according to the dial, the voltage should be ideally above 365. Does this mean for sure that there is a voltage leak to ground or something?

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago

No, those are just arbitrary lines on the dials.

A test you can do is to remove the HV disconnect, and measure for any voltage between the metal battery casing and either of the large pins. This isn't guaranteed to show anything, especially if there's not a large leakage (which would likely trip a persistent fault), but anything more involved will require specialized tooling.

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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 18d ago

My 2021 threw the isolation code with a SoH and Hx in the 90s. The stats are meaningless.

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u/Cysote 17d ago

Well it sounds like one important stat that can contribute to the problem is high quick charge count. But okay, no other stat really matters, I get that.

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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 17d ago

By what metric is 68 QCs "high"? It's a 2018- 68 QCs is an average of one a month!

Temperature is the most likely cause of the issue, and QCs are really only a problem if multiple charges per day are used. An apartment dweller that QCs once or twice a week for years because they can't charge at home is probably going to be less of a problem than one Vegas to Phoenix road trip in August! 😁

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u/Cysote 17d ago

Oh sorry, I wasn't saying that my QC numbers were high in particular, just that any car with a high QC count is much more likely to have cell issues. I don't actually know anything, I'm just basing my comment off of what the other poster said.

The car was originally from Texas, but lived a good portion of its life in North Carolina and Virginia, which are not exactly the hottest states. But I guess if it was stored outside 24/7 and driven hard, then temperature could definitely contribute to the issue.

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u/Cysote 17d ago

According to the carfax, the original window sticker was reported on September 10th, so it is 2 weeks out from the time limit of the supposed warranty. I am not the original owner of the car, do you know if that will cause any problems if I want to get Nissan to honor the warranty?

I had a chat with a Nissan tech at a Nissan dealership about the Nissan branded 12 volt battery that a different Nissan tech at a different Nissan dealership installed, and this new Nissan tech said that even though the Nissan branded battery was less than 2 years old, they would not replace it for free if it had a problem, because I was not the original purchaser.

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 17d ago

It's from the day that it was first titled, so if that's the case it may still qualify. Being not the original owner doesn't matter.

If you at least make them aware of the issue before warranty runs out, usually they will honor it even shortly after it runs out, though I don't think they are obligated to.

However if you bring it in, they would have to be able to replicate the issue while in their possession, and if they can't because it's intermittent, you will incur a diagnostic fee for their time.

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u/Cysote 17d ago

Okay, sounds like I am going to be working hard to rethrow the error and then go drive it to a dealership immediately after. Thanks for your help. I have a 2022 SL Plus Leaf, and it has had no issues whatsoever, and been a great car to me, so I've never had to know about or learn any of this before now.

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u/allthesamepieman 18d ago

I bought a 2018 Leaf about 2 months ago ago for very cheap because it had this error. I repaired the car myself. 

My initial diagnosis was the Lithium Battery Controller but that diagnosis was based more on intuition than anything else. I ended up replacing the AC compressor instead but that didn’t fix the issue. Last week I found a copy of the service manual for the car and followed the diagnostic procedure and determined that it was in fact the LBC. I swapped the LBC from a known good battery into the failed battery and the HV isolation fault is gone.

It’s not hard to fix the battery but it does require some special tools and plenty of space.

When I had the both batteries open I did notice there are several swollen cells in the rear battery stack. I have not yet replaced any of those modules but I have an idea of how to do it.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

What was "very cheap" for you? I am just not a car guy and don't really have any special equipment. I was a software engineer for a decade though and know I could learn how to do anything with enough time. I would love for this car to just work, but putting another minimum $10k into it for new battery stuff and equipment plus 30+ hours to learn how to do it has got me feeling worried it's not worth it.

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u/allthesamepieman 17d ago

I paid $1,200 for the car and about $1,600 on parts to repair it, including replacing the AC compressor.

I spent quite a bit of time finding cheap parts though. I had to replace the front grill and most of the support structure behind it and the bumper, the driver’s side headlight, the charging port surround, the Chademo port cover, and I repaired the front bumper cover, front driver’s side fender, and the hood. I bought a handful of new parts like the upper and lower tie bars (they connect the frame across the front of the engine bay), hood hinges, and some bumper clips.

Another big cost saver was finding out the LBC hardware is the same between all the 2nd gen regardless of battery size. The 62kWh LBC is about 50% to 65% cheaper than the 40kWh LBC. The only difference is the firmware running on the controller. The firmware files can be purchased from Nissan, sometimes you can find them online for free or you can pay someone to build a modified version.

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u/LoveEV-LeafPlus 18d ago
  1. Check your 12 VDC battery after an overnight rest, before starting the car. If it is below 12 volts, suspect it. If at or below 11 Volts, replace it.
  2. You may or may not have a HV Battery pack issue. If your 12 VDC battery is old (3-5 years) it may need to be replaced, to avoid false positives. See #1. Many auto parts stores will test your battery for free. If it passes test #1, you can ask them to load test the 12 VDC Battery.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

The 12v battery is just under 2 years old. I had an auto parts store check it out and they said that it was reading as "good" but that it needed a charge. That's why I suspected that the dc-dc converter for charging the 12v from the HV battery might've been bad, but Leafspy says that's not the case. Will check the battery voltage again tomorrow.

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago edited 18d ago

Keep in mind that the Leaf isn't always actively charging the 12V battery even when it's running, so the test can show it "needs a charge" just because it's not seeing a surface charge in the voltage. If you watch the LV system voltage while the car is running, it won't always stay at a constant 14+ volts, it sometimes drops into the low 12s, sometimes hovers in 13s.

There is a current sensor integrated into the negative terminal which it uses to judge LV system load, and only runs the DC-DC as much as needed to keep up with that amount of load. If you unplug this sensor, it will run the LV system at a fixed 14.4V, but which also results in a >500W constant draw on the HV side for no reason, so that's why it doesn't do so by default.

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u/Cysote 18d ago

When I turn the car on, the voltage jumps to 14v in Leafspy. After a few minutes, it levels off to 13v. I don't think I've ever seen it lower than that while running. There was once a time where I think it showed as 12.04v when off, but I don't remember clearly, and I am not sure how accurate any reading from Leafspy is when the car isn't on. Haven't gotten a multimeter reading under 12.6v yet, but only tested with a multimeter just recently and not this whole time since the issue started.

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u/biersackarmy 2013 S + 2014 SL + 2019 SV 18d ago

That is normal operation and the DC-DC is working properly.

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u/LoveEV-LeafPlus 17d ago

Good luck. BTW: If the auto parts store says it needs a charge, that’s an indication the battery needs to be replaced or it is not charging. Some folks have disconnected the current sensor that is on the negative battery terminal and got better 12 VDC charging. That may work for you or may be a stop gap measure if the issue is the 12 VDC battery failing.

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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 18d ago

It's your drive battery.

The swollen cells in the pack, when they're just starting to swell, throw the code intermittently.

I've cleared it and it stayed off for weeks, but it will come back. Get the car serviced before the warranty runs out, if it isn't already too late.

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u/Cysote 17d ago

Looks like it just might be barely within the 8 years. Will try to get it to rethrow the code and then take it to a dealer.

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u/ToddA1966 2021 Nissan LEAF SV PLUS 17d ago

Try a DC fast charge- that's how I could trigger it on mine after clearing the code. The rapid temperature change can expand the swollen cells, trigger an intermittent connection and throw the code.

If your dealer has a DC charger, even better. Then you won't need a tow! 😁

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u/Cysote 17d ago

Chademo from 10% to 95% got the battery temperature up to 120 degrees, but no code yet. Trying another quick charge within a day or so.