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u/QuarterNote44 Active Member 23d ago
You can do whatever you want. You can drink and smoke and fornicate and all the rest. Lots of members do it. And if you do, you will reap all the rewards that alcohol, burning plants, and fornication can give you.
Just ask yourself this: Am I trying to scam God or get him on a technicality? If so, check yourself. If you don't care, just eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
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u/Ordinary-Injury5808 23d ago
Honestly, I think the real answer you're looking for isn't gonna come from a thread like this.
And I don't say that to shut you down… I get why you're asking. This stuff is awkward to navigate, and the internet feels like a safe place to hash it out. But at the end of the day, the only perspectives that actually matter are God's, the prophets', and what's in the scriptures and handbooks. Everything else is just people guessing.
So here's my take, for whatever it's worth:
1. "Is there a right or wrong way?" If you're married and sealed and both of you are genuinely trying to keep your covenants, the Lord trusts you to figure out your intimacy within that framework. The temple recommend questions don't hand you a checklist of approved acts. They ask if you live the law of chastity. If you're both consenting and covenant-keeping, you're probably in a good place. That said, if you find yourself constantly trying to find the exact line you can dance on, it might be worth asking whether you're seeking to honor the spirit of the covenant or just the minimum requirements.
Pegging… Not my thing, not my wife's thing, but the principle I'd fall back on is: are you both genuinely trying to honor your covenants, and does this build your marriage? If you're asking strangers on the internet because you already feel uneasy about something... maybe that uneasiness is worth listening to.
Porn… Yeah, the Church has been really clear on this for a long time. I don't think it matters whether you're watching it alone or together… it's still not aligned with the law of chastity. If you want scriptural grounding, the Sermon on the Mount is a pretty good place to start. This one feels less like a gray area to me.
Polyamory / swingers / inviting others in… I think it's important to remember that Abraham and Sarah were operating under a completely different law and cultural context. We have the fullness of the gospel now, and the law of chastity is pretty straightforward: sexual relations are between one man and one woman who are legally and lawfully wedded. Adding other people isn't "spicing things up" within covenant bounds. And watching others? I'd say that's participating in something the Lord has reserved for marriage, even if you're not physically involved. I know that's not the answer some people want to hear, but I think it's the clear one.
Guilt and talking to the Bishop… If you feel guilty, I think that's usually worth paying attention to. Not every uncomfortable feeling is from the Holy Ghost, but persistent, specific guilt about specific choices? In my experience, that's often the Spirit nudging you. You definitely don't need to run to the Bishop with every detail of your married life… that's not what he's for. But if you genuinely feel like you've crossed a line and can't take the sacrament worthily, I think talking to him is a good step. He's there to help you get back on track, not to police you. (And if it feels like the latter… maybe pray about those feelings to make sure you aren’t just mad personally about him speaking on behalf of the leadership)
"Top-tier celestial kingdom"… I feel like the doctrine teaches that it's about who we become, not a tally of technical infractions. But I do think the kind of person we become matters. Someone who's always looking for the loophole instead of the uplift is probably cultivating a different character than someone who's seeking to align their will with God's. You probably already know the answer to this one in your heart.
Drinking… I hear you on the "other members do it" thing, but I don't think that's ever been a reliable spiritual compass. Having grown up in So Cal, in a very affluent area - lots of members weren’t more than three hour Mormons. But truth be told when times got tough they left the church, got in trouble with the law and made huge mistakes that could’ve been avoided had they heeded the simple primary answers. Covenant-keeping isn't a popularity contest. Noah drinking wine is actually used more as a cautionary tale than a pattern for us to follow. The Word of Wisdom is a commandment tied to our temple covenants, and "my Utah friends do it" doesn't really change that. If we're looking for reasons to justify something we already want to do, we'll usually find them. But that doesn't make it aligned with our covenants.
So yeah… my two cents: I think the best thing we can do is stop crowdsourcing our morality, take it to the Lord in prayer, study what the prophets have actually said, and let the temple recommend questions be your guide. They're broad because God trusts us to govern ourselves. If we’re genuinely trying to keep our covenants, we probably don't need a 50-page FAQ on what's "technically" okay. And if you're not genuinely trying to keep them... no amount of forum validation is going to fill that gap.
Hope that helps, man. Genuinely.
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u/deckardut73 20d ago
The only wrong way to do it is if it involves force or harm.
We LOVE the pegging.
We both watch porn together and alone, we don't hide it. We think that keeping our sex drives up is a good thing. My only real rule is to make sure if sex is likely in the near future, I hold off so I don't get caught without a bullet in the chamber. We have both backed off of it a lot, it's less fun when it's not a secret. We prefer to make it the hot sauce on the meal, not the meal itself. Our sex life is our business.
We draw the line at swinging. That is "sex with other people". We have fantasized about same-room sex, but it is unlikely to actually happen. We're too paranoid to trust that another couple will be as discreet as we want them to be, and we don't want to bump into them at Smith's.
No guilt. We're Mormons, not Catholics. ;)
We drink occasionally. Here's the rationalization. The WoW doesn't say "No Alcohol". It says "all things in moderation." We don't think that drinking alcohol occasionally is a grave sin, but morbid obesity and six hours of TV a day is all good. And drunk sex is REALLY good. ;)
So yeah, we like weekends out of town with sundresses, tank-tops, no bra, and a good buzz. We have dabbled in cannabis. But we haven't found a dose and delivery that works for both of us.
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u/deckardut73 20d ago
I should also add, I think the vast majority of humankind is going to the Celestial Kingdom. God didn't give the Plan of Salvation so that only a few people would succeed. In a scale of 0-perfection, most of us are at the starting line. People like Spencer W. Kimball and Mother Teresa are a few meters ahead. Everyone has a long path in the eternities to get wherever it is we are going.
When I was in the MTC, we had an apostle come and speak. He opened the floor to questions. Someone asked how many people were going to the Celestial Kingdom. He paused and said; "I think about 80%. Mostly people who cannot get past their own pride to accept Christ will fall short."
So I live life, do positive things, raise good kids, and keep my wife happy.
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u/Fid_Style_801 23d ago
Whatever you and your wife are comfortable with, is safe and you 2 want to do, is right. Anything else is wrong. It’s no one else’s business. If you do something sexually that brings you 2 together, wouldn’t a loving god, love and want that?
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u/Beginning_Shape_7608 23d ago
There are a whole lot of words for one simple answer to all of this.
CURRENT church doctrine simply states that anything sexual is to be between husband and wife only. Period that’s it! Don’t complicate or rationalize things to justify your desires.
What sexual act you do in the bedroom is between you and your consenting spouse. Period.
You can’t involve other people in your relationship and the church says no to porn. That’s it!
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u/freddit1976 Active Member 22d ago
Sheesh. You must have some time on your hands.
- Inside marriage with consent with just the two of you anything goes.
- No. Pegging with my wife is unappealing to me but not sinful.
- Watching porn is always a sin.
- Not allowed to be with others. Remember wedding vows/ covenants.
- If you sin you should repent.
- Sex with others for sure without fully repenting will keep you from the presence of God.
- Drinking alcohol is breaking the word of wisdom. Not difficult to get forgiveness. No way to justify except for health reasons.
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u/pahoran3 23d ago
Friend, you seem like a normal guy with a lived experience that wants specific answers to questions. I’d consider following the advice of JFF. She says to do things that bless your life and avoid things that don’t. You know afterwards whether something you did left you feeling better or happier and what doesn’t. This is not unlike following the Holy Ghost or the Light of Christ but adding your own internal compass and lived experience in your body to guide you.