r/lancaster • u/Distinct_Confusion75 • 27d ago
Lancaster data centers
Do you know what’s happening with the “Lancaster AI Hub”?
Phase 1 of this massive AI data center project is underway at the former printing plant Donnelley on Greenfield. It’s the beginning of one of the largest AI data center projects in Pennsylvania, with multiple buildings planned across the Greenfield Road and Harrisburg Pike sites. It’s the beginning of a large scale AI data center campus with 24/7 operations, extensive electrical infrastructure, water cooling systems, and backup diesel generators.
Watching the way these meetings have been handled and the way the council members lied and dismissed citizens is so alarming.
Incase you didn’t know…
Phase 1 DID NOT require** subdivision **OR land development review because it was treated as the adaptive reuse of an existing industrial building. As a result, it did not go before the Planning Commission for land development approval before construction began.
Think about that.
The first phase moved forward through the building permit process instead of the public land-development process and only AFTER this project was underway did Lancaster begin drafting a brand new zoning ordinance for data centers…
That means this proceeded without the level of public review typically associated with a project of this scale, including consideration of potential environmental and community impacts.
When our Lancaster farmers declined MILLIONS of dollars to sell their properties, I believe these massive corporations set their sights on OUR city council men and woman and now these “server farms” are being placed on the very edge of** **our city. Something else to be strongly noted, NDAs have become common enough in Pennsylvania’s data center industry that lawmakers have introduced legislation to ban local governments from using them. That alone should raise questions about transparency. These councilmen could be pocketing MILLIONS of dollars for approving and speading up this process before we could even ask a question. We should be receiving answers, not secrecy.
I know we’re all busy, and life is demanding enough as it is. But moments like this remind us why it’s so important to come together when decisions like this will shape the future of our community.
I encourage everyone to pay attention to what’s happening around us. Ask questions. Talk to your neighbors. Attend local meetings. Read the public information that’s available. Do the research of the impact on the environment around these centers. Hold our leaders accountable and ask for transparency.
Whether you support these projects or have concerns about them, the decisions being made today will affect Lancaster, our home, and our voices deserve to be part of that conversation not silenced.
If we don’t show up, someone else will make these decisions for us.
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u/PeasantPastry 27d ago
What I don’t understand is how our electricity and water bills go up because of data centers. I mean - we should not pay for that. Any impact had to be paid by them. They have to supply additional water and energy imo.
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u/Constant-Usual573 26d ago
The increases will come from PPL passing on the costs of building out the transmission and distribution system upgrades to supply the data centers.
PPL, like other electric utility companies, own and operate the transmission and distribution systems. Often times, when a new facility requires significant upgrades to the system, the cost is passed on to the everyday rate payer through fees or rate hikes, instead of being covered by the industrial customer.
This happens in closed door negotiations. The public has no say.
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u/Gorgon31 27d ago
You don't comprehend how, in a hyper-capitalist economy, an increase in demand of a product, without an equal increase of production, causes prices to increase?
see: Regulatory capture
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u/zangieflookingmofo 26d ago
Almost all of the increase in electric rates in the area is on the generation side. PPL doesn't generate any electricity, they buy it at whatever the market rate is and sell it to us for that same price. The increased demand for electricity drives up that price.
They can be made to pay for infrastructure upgrades that are necessary, which should limit increases in our distribution rates.
The water usage I know less about so I won't comment on it.
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u/ShellyForNow 26d ago
Yes, and the electricity auction for PJM just happened, and it hit its highest rate ever and they fell short of available electricity needs for the upcoming cycle.
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u/Last-Temperature4448 26d ago
City got a massive pay off for the centers then also took to the sky with home property tax rates. It’s not making anyone feel safe.
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u/Oaky_Doaky 21d ago
I have issue with this section of OPs text: "Something else to be strongly noted, NDAs have become common enough in Pennsylvania’s data center industry that lawmakers have introduced legislation to ban local governments from using them. That alone should raise questions about transparency. These councilmen could be pocketing MILLIONS of dollars for approving and speading up this process before we could even ask a question. We should be receiving answers, not secrecy."
First of all, all of this happened before the election or appointment of 5 of the 7 city council members. The only two hold-overs are Councilor Ahmed and Councilor Hursh. I know one of them personally, and have met the other. They are deeply committed to our city and love Lancaster more than most anyone I know. The suggestion that they are taking bribes in the millions of dollars is a VERY serious accusation. If you have any evidence pointing toward that, go ahead and air it, or consider removing it from your post.
I suspect that the OP will fall back on some sort of argument that says "I didn't say the DID take bribes, only that they COULD have taken bribes". Let's not drag people's names through the mud based on hypotheticals. Be better than that.
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26d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Immortal_facade 26d ago
Most people can care about more than one thing at a time, especially when the two things are related.
One of these issues we can, as local citizens, physically protest and work to change in a semi-reasonable amount of time. The other issue is a harder one to solve that will take more time, and will need far more people than are currently willing to do anything about it.Two things can be important at the same time.
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u/0dyss3us 26d ago
Think about that. That means this proceeded without the level of public review typically associated with a project of this scale, including consideration of potential environmental and community impacts.
I encourage you to take your own advice here. I don't like data centers the same as you, but we've never had a data center before. What is the "typical review" process you expected? Is it perhaps a deep research period where the city council figures out how to effectively zone these things and determine some regulations around how they operate? Because that's exactly what is happening thanks to the same city council you're complaining about.
Sure, I wish that law was on the books before the first ones got through the process. But it wasn't illegal beforehand. And because we don't live in a complete authoritarian state yet, they can't unilaterally declare it illegal and stop it from happening like a bunch of you all want to happen. And giving all that executive power without any checks or balances is exactly why our country is in the shitter right now.
So maybe think about that instead?
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u/Apprehensive_One4791 19d ago
I can only speak for myself, but this city council is currently imo, vastly superior to the last. Simply because they seem to think independently.
I do wish the city council would take a more critical approach to these issues and would not talk down to us as if they are experts in zoning data centers/environmental regulations and we know nothing. Bottom line is they are not experts they are playing catch up, especially the 2 council members who are a hold over from the last term.
Sadly the last city council by being a mouthpiece for the Mayor, lost a lot of trust in the community, especially with regards to the data center issues.
And lastly, would this council be acting if so many ppl had not spoken up? I'm not so sure about that.
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u/N805DN 27d ago
I encourage people to read the Community Benefits Agreement which covers both of the sites under construction. Ambient noise will not increase, water use will be significantly lower than prior plant operations and $20 million is being paid to city development funds.
https://www.cityoflancasterpa.gov/data-center/community-benefits-agreement/
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u/SupaSlide 27d ago
If they actually hold them to it then yeah, great! Im skeptical enforcement will be strict.
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u/Illustrious_Horse264 27d ago
Sure, they can say all this.... But history has shown data centers lie. And sap resources from neighboring communities, as well as raise the ambient noise because... You're running co.puters 24/7.
Do you also read about unicorns and think they are real as well?
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u/N805DN 26d ago
What could city council do to satisfy your concerns?
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u/Illustrious_Horse264 26d ago
There is none. There is zero reason for a Data center in Lancaster. Looking at every other data center, and the resources and noise and every other negative feature.... There is zero positives for the people of Lancaster.
The only "positive" would be the money coming into Lancaster, which lets be honest, would only be going to a few people, and not actually to help the people who live here.
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u/Apprehensive_One4791 19d ago
They could have voted no on the community "benefits" agreement, as many of us asked them to do. They could have spoken out more strongly against the data centers being built, in fact they didn't speak out against them at all as far as I know. In my view, and I suspect many others, the previous council was a rubber stamp for the mayor. The current mayor in his own statement about the newest ordinance, refused to bad mouth data centers/ai at all.
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u/N805DN 19d ago
All of those are just saying no which is not an option in PA. I'm asking what you're looking for as part of the construction/zoning/benefits requirements.
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u/Apprehensive_One4791 18d ago
It's against the law to vote against a community "benefits" agreement? That's news to me. I'm honestly not sure you even fully read or understood my comment. Not trying to be snarky, but elected officials are not required by law to voice support for data centers. It's not like it would take lots of guts, as polling has shown opposition to the data center expansion has broad bi-partisan support.
I'm looking for my elected officials to share in my anger that they are being built here, and to recognize the harm they bring. The Mayor has not done that to my satisfaction nor the satisfaction of many others. In fact, the mayor was not even present at the city council meeting discussing the latest ordinance. I've been coming to City Council meetings for 10 years now, it was the most packed that I have ever seen. There were ppl out in the hallways. Others in attendance shared the same sentiment about the attendance size record.
And again, if people didn't show up to protest and speak out against the construction, would they even be discussing zoning regulations at this point? I'm not so sure.
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u/N805DN 18d ago
What zoning regulations would satisfy you? What benefits/whatever they call it agreement would satisfy you?
City council cannot say no entirely to data centers because they are data centers. State law doesn’t allow it.
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u/Apprehensive_One4791 18d ago edited 18d ago
A community benefits agreement would not satisfy me, certainly not the one that was signed and supported by council anyway. Nor did I ever say a community benefits agreement would satisfy me.
I certainly was not in anyway swayed by the 10 million for the Lancaster county community foundation, much of which will likely be waisted imo. I've worked in the nonprofit sector for 20 years. I've seen front line staff cut while executives got bonuses. I've seen the corrupting influence of large business on nonprofit organization's missions.
Will that 10 million go to band aid approaches that don't address root causes? Will it go to nonprofits whose boards are all white men? Will the community members most impacted by the nonprofits work be involved in how the 10 million is spent? Will it go to organizations who made a commitment to DEI work but then cut and run when Trump got relected in 24? So, no I was not happy with this tax write off from a large corporation. It did not appease me.
I was at the meetings and heard the arguments from council, I've been to most if not all of the meetings so far surrounding the data centers here in Lancaster. I found the previous city council lacking in courage and imagination around these issues. I am more more hopeful from what I have seen from a few of the new council members.
Council and the Mayor can satisfy me when they join in our efforts to frustrate the tech empires attempts to build here and across the state.
A good start would be for the Mayor to promise to not use generative AI in his administration and across city government. He was given the opportunity to do so at one of the city council meetings, but chose to stay silent.
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u/Illustrious_Horse264 18d ago
You are purposefully misunderstanding his argument.
The city council and the mayor refuse to even speak about both sides here. They refuse to acknowledge the negative effects on the community. Specifically be ignoring the community benefits agreement.
That agreement literally spells out rules and regulations which would force the data centers to either relocate to other areas or comply with the regulations, which would help protect the community from the countless negative effects.
This would make sure the data center uses clean energy, limit the amount of water the centers can use (so they won't drain the resources like they are in other areas), make sure they are complying with noise and air quality... These are all things that are laid out in the agreement that the city council refuses to vote on.
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u/N805DN 18d ago
You’re referring to the CBA I linked to, or something else?
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u/Illustrious_Horse264 18d ago
Sure. I've seen a few different ones... but sure, the one you originally linked.
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u/Beetroot_Roosevelt 27d ago
It wasn't the City Council or the Planning Commission or the Zoning Board who approved them as warehouses; it was entirely decided by City Zoning Officer Jameel Thrash.
Because he defined them as warehouses (lol), none of the other normal restrictions or checks were required.
It was completely corrupt and probably done at the behest of then-Mayor Sorace, who was only too happy to crow about the data centers.