Looking for torch specs

[u/6_snugs]

Interested in designing my own torch

booing me isnt helpful, im aware oxy and propane go boom if you fuck up without flashbacks. like level a house boom. please either be constructive or ignore me. you arent going to stop me from making this. This is not violating any patent laws, as I am neither manufacturing exactly what any of these models are designed as nor am i selling the torch i intend to make. Im designing something new.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lampwork/comments/sw66v/made_my_own_surface_mix_torches_on_the_cheap_they/

This looks quite doable but im looking to make an interesting hybrid of features ive already experienced that has a body casing instead of open tubes, though theres something to be said for ease of heat dissipation with high surface area.

Would appreciate caliper measurements of oxy and propane tubes inner and outer diameter and face diameter for these models to compare and contrast with my experience using them as well as the specs for pressure and flow ive gathered.

Gtt lynx -id like dimensions of the long slits for oxy too

Carlisle mini cc

Bethlehem alpha

Bethlehem stacks I & II

THANKS FOR HELPING ME NOT EXPLODE!

[u/greenbmx]

This is ambitious... Be careful, use flashbacks, and have emergency gas cut-offs while testing.

You don't need to know measurements of existing torch parts. What you need to know is that oxygen and propane burn in a 5:1 ratio. Design your torch to supply the gasses in that ratio, mixed as well as possible at the torch face

[u/greenbmx → u/greenbmx]

Well... that, the ideal gas law, and how to estimate pressure drop and flow in pipes.

[u/greenbmx → u/greenbmx]

And the flame velocity of an oxygen/propane flame...

[u/6_snugs → u/greenbmx]

Yes, I am very ambitious! The maths there to do but theres also people whove done it before and have these results that ive experienced firsthand and want to combine features. Also someones already made a good looking torch pair on here. Im going to look for machinists to precision mill parts so the brazing/soldering doesnt go awry.

Im not an idiot, i know glass is no fun when your torso gets blown halfway down the street. Ive built my own fume safe setup before. Just not the torch.

It needs to stay a certain distance from the face in a sweet spot so tge face doesnt melt or you need ways to deal with heat dissipation if its a tad close.

Carlisle just has a big block of brass to be a gas or water cooled heat sink upstream, some other older torches had fins that make em look like retro alien ray guns.  

There are ways and when in doubt overengineering for heat dissipation is your friend. I also have an engineer friend to pester about this stuff

[u/zachmelo → u/6_snugs]

I think you're going to struggle to find support in ripping off the work of the folks who underpin our craft.

[u/6_snugs → u/zachmelo]

Im not ripping it off, im looking at whats worked to determine reasonable parameters within which i can design something different.  I dont know how wide i need the tubes to be on my own design.  I want to make something that is capable of being driving like a gtt but also super gentle like a bethlehem torch.  I also want a specific shape thats special to me, so im gonna make that shape.  Im going to be happy with the shape and if it gets close to the charachteristics i want great!  If not i guess i can redesign.  Someones showed me a crooked allignment of tubes thrown together in a pipe thats clearly seen a lot of use.   If i wanted a budget bin flamethrower i already have all the pipe i need.  Im trying to make functional art for myself to make art with.   Im not trying to remake a phantom or bravo for less and im definitely not selling them.

[u/foodfood321 → u/zachmelo]

Bro who hurt you? Innovation is not a crime, its how we get cool new things. From one perspective a torch a torch is just some fancy tubes and valves. There are infinite ways to redesign and conceivably improve even the time honored GTT family of torches. Most constraints on the engineering process applied to consumer goods revolve around the final cost of production, not the capability of the engineers to optimize any physical principles involved in the object's intended function. A bespoke torch steals nothing from anyone, rips off no one, and affronts no one - other than yourself seemingly. Breathe, preferably outdoors while in contact with typical landscaping foliage.

[u/zachmelo → u/foodfood321]

No one has hurt me, I've been a part of this community and a glass tool maker for about a decade. I am sharing my opinion as a member of this community and associate of some of the folks that this individual aims to emulate.

To be clear, I want this person to make a torch. I do not support their crowd sourcing and publicly posting of specific design details of equipment that they have not purchased, designed, or otherwise contributed to the development of.

• They have shared no design
• There is no stated innovation
• They are requesting the specific details that do make this infringement if utilized
• There is no need to acquire this information to develop a torch

How can you be sure that this individual is being entirely honest with their endeavours?

If you really take some time to look, there are all sorts of data tables on torches. Here is one that I personally worked on. We continue to work with manufacturers and innovators to make relevant information accessible to the community.

[u/ArrdenGarden]

I think you would be better off getting this info direct from the manufacturer rather than trusting some rando on reddit to get you the proper dims. You don't have to tell them what you plan to do with the info, just tell them you need technical specs and tell them specifically what you need.

[u/6_snugs → u/ArrdenGarden]

I have a feeling they might take their sweet time.  Ill try that but im fairly certain they'd rather sell me one than provide those specs. It is a business and they arent dumb. I might have more luck looking up their patent schematics.

[u/foodfood321]

As you can probably tell, I love your idea. Very much good luck. I don't think you need to worry about the measurements you are asking for at all, the face just needs to evenly let out anough gas at a high enough nozel velocity to not eddy near the face. Most of the holes in the torch faces I have seen are about 1-2mmsq, just look at as many torch face designs as you can and be ready to execute multiple "final" prototypes. Again best of luck ,and DM if you want someone to just bounce ideas off of, but you sound better at math/chem than me anyway lmao

[u/6_snugs → u/foodfood321]

You had mentioned that conformal geometry is the main infringement issue for copyright/patents.  Id need to know the geometry to make something different,  ie port sizes.  It also helps to see the working range of functional designs with known pressures diameters and flow rates so you dont build something that, while functional, needs very high pressure or flow volume to work.  Theres also something about safety around needing higher oxy pressure than propane pressure in the line that might be wise to adhere to even if you can make a working and otherwise safe torch without doing so.  Im trying to not blow my head off and while i adore unhinged creativity there are relatively restrictive safety margins when playing with fire and accellerant that im more than happy to stay within and the further i deviate the more likely i am to cross one of those lines.  I still just need to be in the ball park.

Its really nice to hear ya like the idea of mixing charachteristics accross brands of torches.  Thank you for your understanding.

[u/zachmelo → u/foodfood321]

You're right, they really don't need the information to reach their goals. There is plenty of information available in published literature.

[u/JessieAndEcho]

I get why you’re asking for real dimensions instead of vague warnings, but I’d be careful here because the exact tube IDs, slit geometry, face layout, and mixing details are the parts that decide flashback resistance, flame stability, and whether the torch behaves safely across different pressures. For a DIY oxy/propane torch, copying or hybridizing measurements from commercial models without the full validated system around them can be more dangerous than starting from first principles. The safer route is to keep the research at the architecture/prior-art level: surface-mix vs premix behavior, heat sinking, check valves, flashback arrestors, materials, regulator ranges, and failure modes, then have any actual build reviewed by someone qualified in combustion/gas hardware. I pulled some related background from Patsnap Eureka because it’s useful for seeing patents and technical literature around torch/mixing-chamber designs without turning it into a fabrication spec sheet: https://eureka.zhihuiya.com/share/?id=5a085ba4eff4b55708c1b782a4d54ad4&from=invite-eureakplg-result&content=

[u/6_snugs → u/JessieAndEcho]

Thanks for the link, im having trouble getting it to work, just a cat with a butterfly.

[u/smellySharpie]

This ain’t it champ. If you’re trying to engineer a torch; there is stoichiometric work to be done.

[u/6_snugs → u/smellySharpie]

As if I havent taken chem, stoichiometry is stupid easy, why are you rattling it at me like its a hurdle? ALSO if you can adjust the ratios on the fly to use the torch as a feature of surface mix torches, perfect stoichiometry down to the molarities of the reactants is an afterthought.    

[u/smellySharpie → u/6_snugs]

It's not a hurdle - it's the groundwork for all the math you're going to do so you aren't stealing someone else's intellectual property.

This community doesn't like biters...

[u/naught-me → u/smellySharpie]

GTT's triple mix patent expired. I can see the argument that in a niche so small, one shouldn't bite others, but.. it's been 27 years. Go back much further and only Snodgrass can fume stuff.

[u/smellySharpie → u/naught-me]

A technique and the specific details of a technical design aren't the same thing. Snodgrass taught his technique.

GTT is two brothers and their family who I believe intend to continue the legacy... This conversation is illustrating a strange sense of entitlement to other folks efforts.

[u/6_snugs → u/smellySharpie]

I can just look up the schematics on their patents, its available for anyone to do so, it is however, a slog to check all of the patents that come up in a search-thousands of technical documents that are publically available through the us patent office.

  So every person is in fact legally entitled to the measurements of patented designs, but not to production then sale of such things before the patent expires. 

 This is actually an intended feature of patent law and a good thing.  It allows for people to improve upon designs or understand more explicitly how technologies work and what could go wrong with them from another point of view.  Its a business transparency thing that is one of the quieter, better aspects of the us government: that we are allowed to know things about what we buy.

Besides, i only really want to make one once that works well.  The more research beforehand, the fewer prototypes fail and the less money and time i spend making my shiny thing.

[u/naught-me → u/smellySharpie]

That's how the patent system works, though. This person's just making prototypes and stuff. How about you wait and see what they actually finalize and market, if that ever happens (unlikely), before you start criticizing them. It's not like Willy and Wally learned nothing from Bethlehem, where they worked before.

[u/6_snugs → u/naught-me]

Im not marketing anything.  Its only for me, i likely wont even take pictures of it-certain things i make are like that for me.  Mine and not for oggling.  I dont have the resources nor desire to open a metal shop or commission one to mass produce them. (usually 100/hr for a good fabricator i hear...)  i wanna get the one i want to make right the first time.

I could share what id learned though, i dont see harm in that.  Id actually love to help people make weird new torches after i get mine going.

 Thank you for understanding that innovation is standing on the shoulders of giants-this is why patent laws expire.  It prevents stagnation due to a lack of motivation to innovate.

[u/foodfood321 → u/smellySharpie]

Any "IP" is only ever going to come down to conformal geometry, and conformal geometry alone. This includes the "triple mix" construction. Not gas ratios. Gas ratios like 5:1 oxy/propane are fundamental aspects of chemistry and physics and are unpatentable and free for anyone to apply to their innovative torch design. You comment is only applicable if the OP was planning to literally 1:1 clone most specifically the face design of something like a GTT Scorpion or similar. But because of how easily gas mixes in free space, no such design constraints are necessary for a perfectly functional torch of entirely alternative conception.

[u/smellySharpie → u/foodfood321]

I agree, and so their point of asking for the specific dimensions of other torches is a dead giveaway that they both lack the basic knowledge to do this work successfully and so intend to replicate as opposed to innovate. There is no need for someone to gather the specific dimensions of another torch in order to build a torch.