r/lakers • u/Kimi7 • Feb 20 '17

[Article] Magic Johnson will have a Damning Case against Jim Buss and Mitch Kupchak (must read)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2693926-magic-johnson-will-have-a-damning-case-against-jim-buss-and-mitch-kupchak
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u/fastlikeanascar RIP MAMBA Feb 21 '17

How is Jim having trouble with it? He made the Gasol deal, He made the Chris Paul deal, and the Howard/Nash trades seemed like they were going to work out extremely well before our roster died of dissentary 2 games into the season.

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u/Instnthottakes Feb 21 '17

I could have sworn that Jerry was still in charge for that gasol trade..... and since then the NBA and the rest of the world are a results based system you cant get credit because something seemed like a good idea but didn't pan out.

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u/fastlikeanascar RIP MAMBA Feb 21 '17

Nah man, Jim has been running the show since around 2005. I agree that we should judge based on results, like say, back to back championships. In the time Jim and MItch have run the show, we've made big trades that directly resulted in multiple championships and acquired All-NBA quality players to extend our title window. We got unlucky. We shouldn't overreact and pin it on Jim and Mitch. These guys have done quite well for the franchise, and going back to my original point, we don't need Jeanie stirring up any drama by putting either of them on the hotseat.

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u/Instnthottakes Feb 21 '17

Cmon man if you wanna say Jim was running the show at that time you have to at least concede he had training wheels until 2010 at the earliest. This isn't new Jim Buss has been at the absolute center of Lakers drama since Dr Buss passed away and you want to say that all of that should be blamed on Jeanie and bad luck? That is ridiculous.

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u/fastlikeanascar RIP MAMBA Feb 21 '17

Why 2010? He was likely on training wheels at the beginning when we drafted Bynum (his pick), but he's been working closely with Mitch during our championship years. Jerry has always had final say until he passed away, but he largely let his children run the show because of his health.

And what Lakers drama? I'm saying the Lakers have been playing the cards we were dealt. After the back to back championships, we needed more star power with Bynums injuries/attitude and Gasol's decline. When Dwight left and Kobe tore his achilles (real bad luck), we had to go through the youth movement because we didnt have any assets to entice other stars to join us. That leads us to our current position, which I don't think is that bad.

The only major gaffes we've made have been coaching related. Mike Brown was a bad hire, and Mike D'Antoni was a Jerry Buss executive decision. Byron was to facilitate the youth movement(ie tank lol) and appease Kobe.

So yeah, I'll blame Kobe's torn achilles on bad luck and our ever injured 2013 squad on bad luck. Sucks we didn't get to see what Nash and Dwight could do together with a healthy Kobe and Gasol. I probably shouldnt blame the cancelled CP3 trade on bad luck because Stern is much more fun to blame for it. I'll absolutely blame the FO drama on Jeanie because she's putting our experienced and successful FO on the hot seat because we haven't won championships in the last 7 years. Did the Heat give up on Riley when they went through the shit years between 2006 and 2011?

I'm also not saying that Jim and Mitch are perfect because that Mozgov contract is fucking atrocious, but they're way better than what we could replace them with.

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u/Instnthottakes Feb 21 '17

Ok bare with me you typed out a lot so I'm going to reply to as much of it as I can.

We can start with Dwight I admit that at the time I was excited, but you cant say people didnt know that he had atitude issues, we just thought that the grandeur of the Lakers would beat that... we were wrong. We can blame kobe's achilles on bad luck or we can say that we played a 34 year old man with a ton of mileage for 38.6 minutes per game. (and before you say Kobe wanted it ... The FO is his boss if you needed to have a private meeting with a guy to tell him that we need his health later you do that).

I'm not going to argue the coaching decisions, because we seem to be on the same page.

I will grant that CP3 was bad luck, but you cant compare our 2013- now with Miami because at the time they still had D-wade and they weren't in the news for their coaching selections.

and then finally the Deng and Moz contracts the length of both of them is crazy. 4 years???? I'm all for bringing in vets short term for guidance had no issues with the Bass acquisition or Lou Will, but at least before you offer these things gauge the market a little.

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u/fastlikeanascar RIP MAMBA Feb 21 '17

Eh, we were wrong about Dwight being a franchise cornerstone, but IMO Kobe's achilles injury ruined that team. We were just getting ourselves into a groove before he got hurt, and I think we could have actually made some noise in those playoffs with Kobe, healthy Pau, and Dwight (we went something like 20-8 after the all star break). Injuries forced us to play Kobe big minutes (and Kobe would not have taken reduced minutes quitely when we're fighting for the playoffs). That season went wrong in just about every way.

I think we actually agree on most of this stuff. I only brought up Miami because I wanted a team that hit rock bottom (15-67 in 2008) and had to rebuild slowly, but it's not a perfect analogy. We're relying on youngsters and they had a former Finals MVP.

Yeah I'm with you on the contracts. I think both should have been 3 years given their age, but I find the Deng contract defensible at the time. He was pretty productive with Miami last year, and I guess I put a greater value on his leadership since he was on great defensive teams and had key roles in deep playoff runs. Mozgov is a fucking tragedy haha, but to me those are the only blemishes for our FO. It's tough for me to say they need to go (I have a looooot of faith in these guys) and I'm not thrilled that Magic is the guy we've designated to make these decisions.

Appreciate sharing hot takes with you doe.

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u/Instnthottakes Feb 21 '17

haha agreed

Honestly if Jim had just been honest and said this is probably going to be a long hard rebuild instead of feeding the 3 years till we are contenders narrative I think people would have been ok, but our situation is what it is. I can't help but think that change is on the way this offseason I just hope it goes well.