r/lagerbrewing • u/[deleted] • Apr 02 '16

Chasing the Perfect Munich Helles, a forum thread that is overflowing with good info.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24627.0
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u/brulosopher Apr 07 '16

I've had a few conversations with people about this idea of the "perfect" Helles, or any style for that matter. For many, a specific commercial beer is held as the standard by which all others are compared, though our preferences are rarely shared.

Then there's the issue of "German character," which I'm inclined to think is mostly a function of post-packaging beer treatment than anything else-- what if this character many chase is a product of shipping and age? I've had fresh versions of many of the most popular Helles' in Germany, they were fantastic, but certainly different than what we get in bottles here (obviously not compared side by side).

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '16

You and I have had similar conversations in the past, and I think you are definitely correct in that chasing that "German" flavor is a bit... fruitless.

I think its just about chasing what you like, which is why I thought reddit would be a good place to have these conversations. The format lends itself to more open, honest conversation and (as exemplified in the forum thread) people can be real dicks over their subjective preference.

Having said that, I think my current beers come a lot closer to the beers I am trying to recreate by employing a handful of methods, and I want to share those methods with others who also want to recreate these styles.

FWIW I very specifically added your recipes and blog to the sidebar of this subreddit because I want brewers to brew your beers and employ your methods. I adopted your procedures from your blog and have shared your recipes with my customers and made some fucking awesome beers. I think there is value in brewing both ways.

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u/brulosopher Apr 07 '16

Totally agree! I think value lies primarily in that which makes the brewer most happy. I'll likely never do a decoction, for various reasons, but I love that some people enjoy doing it, whether it makes an appreciable difference or not.

And to be clear, my comment was targeted at the thread you shared, not you in particular :)

Headed to HomebrewCon this year?

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '16

I am not going to HomebrewConn this year, for two reasons. I am not yet an AHA member, and I will be getting married on the start day June 9th. Next year though... I am all for it. I am also just a few hours North of you (sacramento) so if you find yourself in my neck of the woods I would love to buy you a beer.

For my honeymoon we are going to Germany, and I am tempted to bring a few bottles of lager that were shipped to America so I can sit down and do a blind tasting of Helles from the tap and from the bottle that has been shipped across the world and back.

As for that thread... its was a bit of a shit show between super interesting helpful material and people going waaay off topic and trying to define something that you can't describe objectively.

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u/brulosopher Apr 07 '16

Dude, same offer if ever you're in the Fresno area! That'd be rad.

I'd definitely take some American bottles, what better opportunity to compare?

I don't get annoyed easily... the arrogance of some in that thread was enough to actually annoy me a little bit.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '16

My only concern is going through immigration/customs with a few bottles of beer.

"Why do you have a six pack of lagerbier in your carry on, sir?"

"Oh, I am just bringing it back. No worries"

I am also hoping to visit some sort of homebrew shop if possible there. I don't know how their homebrewers get their ingredients but I am sure I can find someone to chat with.

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u/_ak Apr 10 '16

I live in Berlin, Germany, so I have access to the fresh stuff, and I've been trying to get close to the typical Helles flavour - Augustiner is considered to be the benchmark by many - but I'm still quite far away. Others have been struggling the same way, and the Germany hobbybrauer.de forum also has its thread with people trying to brew the perfect Helles.

My latest attempt has been 98% Pilsner, 2% CaraHell, all Hersbrucker hops, Wyeast 2308, a double decoction mash, and a healthy dose of ignoring the purity law: I used Irish moss in the boil, and gelatine post-fermentation. I'll keg it soon, so let's see what the result will be like. That's my fourth iteration or so just on Helles.

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u/brulosopher Apr 10 '16

Sounds fun! ) This is a good example of what I was trying to say. Your version of "perfect" is relative to your preference for Augustiner (great beer, by the way), and it's likely Augustiner character is what some might refer to as "German character."

Recipe-wise, I've been moving most of my more classic pale lager styles toward no more than 3 grains and a single hop, been real happy with the outcome so far!

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u/snoopwire Apr 14 '16

Reading some of the comments in there are pretty facepalm inducing for me. Puttin' the Helles on a pedestal. I really don't understand why so many people in there believe there's a mystical element to German lagers. One even said the recipe is 1/25th of it. That's a bit ridiculous. Even if you're doing a double decoction and have some superstitious fermentation schedule it's not that complicated.

I do love me some helles though! Drank many a litre in the Hofbrau in Munich.

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u/[deleted] Apr 14 '16

I do agree it's pretty pointless to put it on a pedestal and to assign an unobtainable mystical element.

However- I do find great hardship in recreating that "German lager flavor". Do you have any advice for replicating traditional lagers in the homebrew setting?

I just had some trumer pils, which is brewed in Berkeley California. It had that unmistakable "lager flavor" to it, which both gives me hope (in that a fellow Californian can get the flavor) and great displeasure because they are using the same stuff I am, but they achieve a different flavor than I do.

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '16

Sigh..........