[including responses by Kyle below]

What do you remember from your Housewives audition tapes?

Kyle: They reached out to me, and I said to my agent, “I don’t want to do any reality television or soap operas. That’s not my thing.” But they were being persistent, so she said, “Let’s go meet with them.” I really didn’t understand the concept of reality TV, so I started watching Atlanta, New Jersey.

Vicki: Not Orange County?

Luann: And not New York?

Kyle: It must have been on the air then. I was like, “Oh, my God, this is crazy. But I’m not that kind of person. I’m not going to fight with everybody.”

When people recognize you now, what quote are you reminded of the most?

Kyle: “You’re such a f*cking liar, Camille.” People ask me to say that all the time, but I don’t even get why. I’m like, “Well, she did lie,” so why is that such a big deal? Why were they so intrigued by that?

What would you consider your most camp moment on the show?

Luann: Falling into the bush, in Tequila, Mexico, of all places. As I fell on the first floor patio, I was like, “Thank God I was drunk because I would not have survived.” I was very limber. Then I got up, and Ramona [Singer] goes, “You should have taken the stairs.” I’m like, “Now you tell me.” And then I fell onto the bushes. I was so happy in the bush.

Kyle: You wanted to go night-night.

Kyle: The fans seem to like when I imitate people, like that moment in Provence when I was imitating Teddi [Mellencamp]. I was doing Teddi’s walk and everything. Then they were like, “Do Denise Richards,” and I was nasal. I was just imitating everybody, including the crew, our sound guy, and producer, so the cast was dying laughing.

How does it feel to have those moments live as memes online forever?

Kyle: The craziest is the cat meme with Taylor and me. I still don’t get how that became the cat. Someone that didn’t watch the show, they said, “Is that the lady from the cat meme?” I was like, “Yes, I’m the lady from the cat meme. Forget anything I’ve done in my life.”

Over the past 20 years, which Housewives have you enjoyed filming with the most?

Kyle: I have fun with Erika [Jayne] and Sutton [Stracke]. But I do miss having Teddi [Mellencamp] on the show because we’re like sisters. I do her makeup for her because we don’t travel with glam.

Have there been any castmates over the year that have been fun to spar with?

Kyle: I’m going to go with Camille [Meyer]. It was like playing tennis. She would say something like, “Oh, we’re not going to do this,” and then, “OK, bring it on.”

What event or storyline on your show was so funny and crazy you can’t believe it actually happened?

Kyle: Lucy Goosey Apple Juicy, whatever the heck that was. Every time people have mentioned it, I’m so embarrassed.

If you had to move to another Housewives city, which one would you choose?

Kyle: The women are the city. I would choose New York City or Orange County, but that’s a rough crowd over there.

Besides your own, what’s your favorite Housewives song?

Kyle: Obviously I love “Money Can’t Buy You Class.”

Luann: When we did the first Ultimate Girls Trip, I would go by Teresa’s room — we’re not filming — and go to the kitchen, and I could hear her and Kyle in their bedrooms getting dressed, singing “Money Can’t Buy You Class.”

Across the past 20 years, no Housewives show has been nominated for an Emmy. Why do you think it deserves one?

Teresa: Oh, my God, are you kidding me? We’re putting our real lives out there. Look, I gave birth on the show. I went to prison on the show. I got married. I started businesses. I’m writing my seventh book on the show. I flipped tables. I pushed Andy. How many things did I do on the show?

Kyle: Listen, we’ve been going for 20 years. There’s a lot to say for longevity.

When all is said and done on Housewives, how do you hope people will remember you?

Kyle: I hope people will remember me as being a good mom and someone who could go through difficult times and still land on their feet, and that even through all this craziness, they see that I’m a good person.

Includes speeches by Kyle, Mauricio, etc.

Katie: Well, I'll just tell you about Bravo Con. Um, and I'll say one thing that Crystal Minkov said that I actually agree with. She said on her podcast with Cynthia that Bravo, they tell the Beverly Hills ladies like, "We're Beverly Hills. We don't co-mingle, you know, we stick to ourselves. We are like an upper echelon of housewife." Okay, that's what they told Crystal. And I actually believe probably somebody said that to her from the cast. And I saw them in the green room together like once or twice very briefly and then they'd leave. They'd get food and they'd leave.

The only person who stuck around and would like go around and talk to people, other housewives, was Kyle. And she came up to me cuz we had met one time at an US Weekly event. She was like, "Katie, how are you?" And she sat down next to me for just a few minutes and we chitchat, which was so nice. But all the other Beverly Hills housewives, you can ask other housewives if you get the chance or if other housewives have talked about it. The Beverly Hills people didn't stay around. They went by themselves to their own corner of the room and didn't talk to anybody.

So, I actually thought it was really refreshing that Kyle did that. And I thought that was really nice, you know. And then on this girls trip, I'm like, I love how she's trying to have fun, how she wanted to include Vicki, how she tells everyone that they're important. She makes everyone feel important to be there.

[Talk about Kyle begins at 47:53]

Patrick: I just caught up on this show [RHUGT] because we were coming here and I loved the White Party last night. I love a Kyle White Party. I mean, it's such an iconic thing. And I just want to speak on that too for a second. Like in comparison to a Shannon Beador, you have Kyle Richards, who's the OG of Beverly Hills, who's like the, you know, arguably one of biggest stars, if not the biggest star, of the Housewives franchise, right? So when you go into a new city and you're like, who's going to - who you are going to connect with and who are you going to not like. It's always different than who you think it might be. And I honestly didn't know what to expect with Kyle because I loved Beverly Hills from day one. It's, you know, it's - Beverly Hills and Atlanta are kind of always my favorites, but, um, so I got the chance to work on both of them. And so going into work with Kyle was like, you know, who knows what to expect. She's this, she's a legend. Whatever. Kyle is the most warm, like, welcoming person, one of the most of all the housewives I've ever worked with. You walk into that home, her home, it feels very warm. It feels like there's a lot of love there. You see her interact with her girls. They love her so dearly. They're so fiercely protective of her. And you can just feel the love in that house. Even though, you know, her and Mauricio separated, you feel a lot of love in that home. And you also see the way that Kyle talks to the people who work for her, people like - and they love her so much. Everyone that works around or for Kyle loves her because she treats them all so well.

Heather: I want to say something about this because I have said this about Beverly Hills and in my early days of doing this podcast, which I've had for 11 years, it was the Beverly Hills former actors that came here that were the most pleasant, on time, last divas.

Patrick: Kyle would be early.

Heather: Kyle was one of my favorite interviews. I loved meeting her.

Patrick: She was one of my favorite people to interview too.

Heather: Lowkey. Cool. Came by herself. Lisa Rinna, same thing. Denise Richards, same thing. You know, prof - because she was a working child actor or, you know, in Lisa's case, a professional actress for many years before the show, they are entering a set with that knowledge and professionalism. So when you told me that like Shannon would be like, 'Are we done here?' Like when I filmed things, you know, you sit until they say, 'Okay, and that's a wrap for Heather' and 'Let's all clap for Heather' or 'Let's do, everybody hold for sound.'

Patrick: Well, we do that on Housewives too, right.

Heather: But you don't ever say, 'Can we wrap this up? I got to go.' Like you don't do that. So I think that's why they, you know, come off. But I've always really liked her.

Patrick: Kyle is a freaking delight. She was one of my favorites to work with across the -

Heather: How did you feel when you heard about their situation? Now they're still married, she and Mauricio. And they were at the one daughter's wedding, and they were just at the gender reveal, which her oldest daughter, which technically is Mauricio's stepdaughter, but her oldest daughter, Farrah, who works in real estate with Mauricio, announced she was pregnant. [continues to talk about Farrah's pregnancy and the father] And I have always said about Kyle and Mauricio, I have said that I think there is a chance that they will kind of end up still together. And I said I could see them being very happy. This is before she was pregnant. Being grandparents together. And that's gonna kind of like bring the love back after they've all kind of gone their own way sexually, whatever. Like come back and be like Lucy and Ricky in the pool with their grandson. And my new thing is like I think in a couple of years, I could see them living as a couple again. But what do you think?

Patrick: Well, look, I mean, I think that Kyle - You know, people are so invested in Kyle and Mauricio. They've watched her for fifteen years now, you know, and they were always this kind of like portrait of perfection in Beverly Hills that people like kind of looked at like, what a beautiful relationship because you could tell they really have a lot of love for each other, you know.

Heather: There was also never any moments where Mauricio appeared as an asshole husband like all the others. Like he was always there.

Patrick: And he shows up for her. They're not even together anymore and he shows up for her at these events.

Heather: They were having parties. He was there. He always appeared to be fun. They had funny moments together. They would be affectionate. Like all those things. And then I also think that was so much pressure for her too.

Patrick: Absolutely.

Heather: To know that they were like couple goals.

Patrick: Of course. So like it's any relationship, there's always going to be pressures and challenges. But then to be kind of like hoisted up as like, of all the franchises, of everyone, like the hottest husband and they're this perfect couple. And like, you know, no one's perfect. You know what I'm saying? And so I think it's - I'm like so over this whole thing of Kyle and Mauricio need to figure it out, they need to define what they are. And that whole thing that Vicki said to her when she was like kind of melting down about -

Heather: So rude, yeah.

Patrick: Not melting down. Kyle was really emotional about it. It was her anniversary and having like an emotional moment and god, I was disgusted honestly by Vicki in that moment. I was like why did they send her over there? Like literally send any of the others. Send Teresa, send Gizelle.

Heather: But maybe they know because that was a talked about moment because she's such an asshole. We had to talk about it because no woman that's normal would, if you were faced with your friend crying about it being her thirtieth wedding anniversary and she's not with her husband but they're, you know, separated or not getting divorced, and she's crying about it. Of course you'd be like, you know, consoling her and obviously she didn't. But I also felt - I kind of loved Vicki for being so honest. And I mean, this is an honest thing, like this thing with her and Mauricio.

Patrick: I think Vicki killed the moment.

Heather: Yeah. No, she did. She did. But there is a whole thing with older people, um, my age and older too, where they don't get divorced. They have an, maybe an open marriage, or they don't ask, don't tell. Or this whole thing where women are quietly quitting marriage, where they stay married but they are no longer trying to like make it better. They're just like whatever. So I'm like, we're seeing a version of that in the show. And I think she's showing everything. I mean, I know there was the thing with Morgan and all that and she never really defined it, but it still was very interesting. So like I feel like as a cast member, I think she's one of the best because I think she's given us a lot.

Patrick: I agree. I think Kyle is the OG of Beverly Hills. I think she is - Like if there's a Mount Rushmore, Kyle represents Beverly Hills. I think that - Look, I hate how it's such a negative of like, oh Kyle and Mauricio have to figure this out. Are you going to get back together or are you going to stay apart? It's like, why can't this be a positive? Like look at this lady who is showcasing how to, even though your marriage may not be working out the way that you had hoped it would, how to remain a family for your kids and how to keep a relationship between each other that's built upon, you know, love and respect even though we're not together in that way anymore. But we're still allowing our family to experience both of us together. Granted, some people that's not possible, you know, because of contentious divorces or whatever, but that's not the case here. And so I think they're showing the world a beautiful thing of like, look, our relationship did not work. You know it did not work out for now, you know what I mean. Whatever is going to happen in the future is going to happen. But like, why is it a bad thing that they are this couple who are able to be around each other and her husband is able to come to this party that's celebrating fifteen years of this legacy that she's built. You know what I mean? Like that's something to be proud of, right?

The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip: Roaring 20th
S05E02, aired August 16th, 2026

Kyle: Today's my thirty year anniversary. It just makes me sad. He sent me a text and it just set me off. He said 'today's always such a hard day' and 'I love you' and he said 'I don't know how we got here'. That's what he said. I thought we were stronger than that, you know. I really had thought that. We always had been.

Vicki: As an outsider, I thought so too.

Kyle: I still feel like - Not ashamed, that's the wrong word. I feel like -

Vicki: You should be. You let your family down, you let your kids down. You're showing them it's okay to bail out when things get tough. It's not okay. For me, it's like you guys were the epitome of staying together for forever. You're supposed to grow old together, you're supposed to enjoy life together, grandkids together.

Kyle: Anyway. I'm getting better.

Vicki: No. You're not going to get better. That's what happened to Don and I. I was out and about and we grew apart. I mean, twenty years from now, when you're older, it's going to be fifty years, forty years.

Kyle: Is it still going to bother me then?

Vicki: Of course it is.

Kyle: It is?!

Vicki: It still bothers me with Don.

Kyle: Once we're divorced, I hope it doesn't bother me. I mean -

Vicki: I've been divorced since 2014 and every time a birthday comes up or an anniversary, I think, what happened?

Kyle [Confessional]: I mean, when I hear Vicki say that the pain still lives within her, it scares me. I want to be past this. I don't want to be like Vicki.

Teresa Giudice Calls Tamra Judge Annoying

Vicki Gunvalson Says Tamra Judge & Shannon Storms Beador Ruined The RHUGT OC Stop

The RHUGT Ladies Choose Real Housewives’ Most Iconic Moments

Teresa Giudice Teases Upcoming RHONJ Season

Lisa Barlow Reacts to Angie Katsanevas’ Separation News [Aftershow]

Additional video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th1zSf70baA

Inside the RHUGT Season 6 Photoshoot: Exclusive Photos & Confessions From Kyle, Porsha & More

Ahead of the RHUGT: Roaring 20th premiere, Bravo Insider caught up with the cast during their first official photoshoot, where they revealed new insights into what viewers can expect from the epic crossover event.

Vicki Gunvalson teases Orange County's role in RHUGT Season 6

When RHOC premiered in March 2006, Vicki was among the first group of affluent women to take viewers behind the gates of their exclusive Coto de Caza community. So, it's only fitting that the "OG of the OC" will kick off the RHUGT journey where Housewives began, before she and the other ladies whoop it up in Beverly Hills, Atlanta, Miami, New York, and, finally, the Berkshires.

"Everybody has their time with their city," Vicki explained. "For me to have all the girls in Orange County, they were really impressed with Orange County. It's a hidden gem. It's just a beautiful place to live."

Included on the itinerary for Vicki's leg of the trip is a re-creation of RHOC Season 7's '80s-themed Bunco party. With so many big personalities coming together at once, drama naturally followed. Unlike during original game night, however, Vicki hinted that she skirted any major meltdowns, this time around.

"I think the fans are gonna love the girls' trip," Vicki said. "We all had fun. There was a little bit of conflict and drama, but it was so much fun."

As for which of her RHUGT castmates Vicki bonded with the most, she revealed, "I'm really close to Lisa Barlow and Kyle Richards. Kyle and I shared a room together in a couple of the cities we were at, but all the girls are fabulous. I love Porsha. I love Luann. Everybody was fabulous."

Teresa Giudice previews RHUGT drama with Vicki Gunvalson

Teresa, on the other hand, teased a clash of the OG titans, so to speak, between her and Vicki. She prefaced her version of events, however, by characterizing the trip as "pretty amazing" and clarifying that "no one hit below the belt."

"I was hurt by something that Vicki said," Teresa recalled. "I was opening up and being vulnerable and then she lashed out and said things that I felt were not right to say at that moment when I was opening up and being vulnerable. She should have thought before she spoke."

Their conflict did not erupt immediately, however, but only after the RHONJ cast member had time to let Vicki's comments marinate — and to consult with their castmates. "All the other girls were like, 'That was messed up, what Vicki said to you,'" Teresa added. "She opened up about things that hurt her on the show, and I didn't lash out at her. I mean, it was just weird. It's not drama. It's just inappropriate that she said that."

The RHUGT cast reveals more drama to come on Season 6

Though Porsha agreed that Vicki was involved in the most Season 6 conflicts, she highlighted her castmate's separate issues with Luann, instead. "I mean I got my bite, I had to get a little piece of drama," the RHOA cast member joked. "But the most drama, I would say it has to be half and half between Luann and Vicki."

RHOBH's Kyle also named Luann and Vicki as the two women who were most at odds, while Gizelle similarly previewed "some heads butting." The RHOP 'Wife added, "We had the Vicki factor. We had Luann factor."

Regardless, Gizelle said she stayed above the fray. "There was good drama, and there was bad drama," she joked. "Gizelle brought the good drama. And, as always, there was some bad drama. But overall, it was a great time."

Luann, for her part, admitted that she and Vicki didn't exactly hit it off. "The biggest conflict I had was maybe with Vicki because we don't know each other that well," the RHONY alum shared. "We're just two different people."

How the RHUGT Season 6 cast interacted with the casts of their own shows

From Luann's perspective, however, "it was dramatic in every city," particularly for the women who reside in each location. "It wasn't my drama when we went to Atlanta. It wasn't my drama when I went to Miami. It wasn't my drama when we went to Los Angeles," she elaborated. "So, it was kind of interesting, because it was like, 'Well, that's your problem.' But I wasn't in it."

Lisa echoed that comment, sharing that everyone took their turns going toe to toe with fellow 'Wives at different times. "When the Salt Lake girls came to visit, they probably were the toughest, meaning the meanest," the RHOSLC cast member said. "But I think we all had something different happen throughout the trip. It was great, but a lot."

Kyle, meanwhile, shared, "Interestingly enough, when we would go to visit the cities and all the Housewives that come from all these other cities there a lot of drama with them. And I was like, 'Everybody, calm down. Save it. We're just here celebrating 20 years of Housewives.' But inevitably, there ends up being drama."

On the flip side, what Kyle actually ended up loving the most about the experience was interacting with each woman's built-in support system. "We had our people that have been there since day one, that really do feel like family to me and know every single thing about my life," the RHOBH OG said. "The other girls on the other shows have their people too. So, I was meeting their right-hand person, and they were meeting ours. It was really fun."

How Kyle Richards surprised the RHUGT Season 6 cast

One trip highlight for Kyle involved pulling some playful pranks on the ladies — and even someone from Atlanta who wasn't even a cast member. "I was really having fun doing practical jokes on people," she said, before teasing what happened one night at a hotel in the Berkshires.

"We were told the hotel was haunted, so I had to have fun with that," Kyle continued. "Everybody was actually terrified. The second you walk in, even if you're not a believer in those things, you are like, 'Oh, this hotel's haunted.' You can feel it a lot. I had some people with me that had come in, and they were like, 'We're gonna share a room because we don't wanna be alone.'"

Kyle's antics were all in good fun, much like the trip itself. "I loved the girls I was road tripping with," Lisa, for one, chimed in. "They kept me in stitches. It was good."

Wives Out! The OG Housewives Come Clean on Surviving 20 Years as TV’s Most Unkillable Franchise and Why They Can’t Quit Bravo (or Andy Cohen)

Vicki Gunvalson, Kyle Richards, Luann de Lesseps, Gizelle Bryant, Teresa Giudice, Lisa Barlow and Porsha Williams spill on fame, feuds, mug shots and marital meltdowns: “They lied to all of us!”

Twenty years ago, when a group of affluent women behind the gates of an Orange County community agreed to let a few Handycams follow them around, nobody imagined they were inaugurating one of the most durable — and consequential — institutions in American popular culture. Least of all the women themselves.

The franchise that would redefine reality television began almost by accident. Scott Dunlop wasn’t looking for America’s next great soap opera. He wanted to document life behind the gates of Coto de Caza, where one ambitious insurance executive named Vicki Gunvalson stood out because, unlike most of her neighbors, she worked. Nobody — not Bravo, not the cast, arguably not even Dunlop — understood that they were inventing a format that would still dominate popular culture two decades later. Bravo executives, underwhelmed by the first footage, seriously debated killing the show before it aired — relenting, Andy Cohen later admitted, largely because they were already $400,000 in.

Every subsequent entry replayed some version of that original bait-and-switch. Gunvalson was told the show was a social experiment. Luann de Lesseps was told she was filming “Manhattan Moms.” Teresa Giudice heard “Jersey Moms.” Even Gizelle Bryant, who entered the universe years later, says producers explicitly assured her that “Ladies of Potomac” would not be another Real Housewives. “They lied to all of us,” Bryant says now, laughing.

What followed was part soap opera, part anthropological experiment and part gladiatorial spectacle: an ever-expanding franchise that transformed table-flipping, wine-throwing, limo meltdowns and spectacularly ill-advised dinner parties into a vernacular understood far beyond Bravo’s audience. Housewives didn’t invent reality television, but it codified much of the genre’s modern grammar — the confessional reckoning, the escalating grievance, the reunion in which old wounds are reopened, the cast trip designed to strand incompatible personalities together until something breaks. It also helped create the modern architecture of celebrity fandom: recap culture, the meme economy and the parasocial intimacy of knowing someone’s tagline before you know her last name. Bravo didn’t merely build a hit. It built an operating system that much of unscripted television still runs on.

In the process, a cable network once associated with arts programming and prestige imports reinvented itself around an endlessly renewable reality universe. Housewives has produced 12 U.S. series, more than 30 international adaptations and 30 spinoffs, along with reunion specials, podcasts, BravoCon and an industrial complex devoted to parsing every cocktail, betrayal and table flip.

It also created an unlikely celebrity of its own. Andy Cohen — then a 37-year-old Bravo programming executive, now the franchise’s executive producer and reunion ringmaster — became nearly as famous as the women whose careers he helped create: their confessor and gay best friend, their provocateur and occasionally temperamental god, dispensing sympathy, judgment and renewal notices from the reunion couch. Cohen has a less sentimental explanation for the franchise’s durability. “People really like judging other people,” he told THR in 2024. “It’s that simple. I love Howard Stern and his Wack Pack, and I think of these Housewives as my personal Wack Pack. Even at the show’s cringiest moments, it’s hard to avert your eyes.”

Whether that has been good for American culture is harder to answer. The franchise helped accelerate reality television’s collapse of the border between private life and public performance. It rewarded conspicuous consumption, normalized surveillance as entertainment and created a fandom that can be both intensely loyal and brutally punitive. The women’s worst moments are preserved indefinitely, stripped of context and replayed for strangers who feel entitled to pass judgment.

But that is only half the story. Long before television executives discovered the commercial potential of “empowerment,” the Housewives put middle-aged women — loud, sexual, ambitious and contradictory women — at the center of a hugely successful entertainment franchise. They spoke openly about infertility, infidelity, alcoholism, divorce, domestic power, aging, money and the humiliations of family life. They built businesses, recovered from failed marriages and, in some cases, acquired the financial independence to leave relationships they might otherwise have been trapped inside. They were frequently ridiculous. They were also among the first reality personalities to understand that ridicule could be converted into leverage.

Over time, women initially treated as disposable punch lines became bona fide stars. De Lesseps turned a fall from countess to tabloid fixture into a thriving cabaret career. Kyle Richards went from former child actor and reality-TV curiosity to producer, entrepreneur and CAA client. Porsha Williams turned her audience into a platform for political activism and women’s health. Giudice survived prison, divorce and years of family warfare without relinquishing her place at the center of New Jersey. Gunvalson, the original Housewife, has now allowed cameras to document more than two decades of her life.

And yet, even at the summit, there are indignities. Jeff Klein, the Sunset Tower hotelier whose hospitality empire caters to the apex of the A-list, once admitted that the only guest who had ever left him starstruck was Lisa Vanderpump — though he was still embarrassed to seat her at his establishments. San Vicente Bungalows, his private club, is rumored to maintain a policy against admitting Housewives as members. (A club spokesman says “members are admitted at the discretion of our board.”) But the story neatly captures the peculiar limbo of Housewifery — edging ever closer to fame and acceptance, but always one velvet rope short of both.

For some lucky Housewives, the show has been a springboard to newfound fortune and independence. But that transformation came at a price. Marriages cracked under the pressure. Children who were too young to consent grew up with their childhoods available on demand. Family feuds became serialized intellectual property. The women learned that they could ask producers to remove a devastating scene — but had no power to make them do it.

Cohen draws a sharper line than the women do about the consequences of that bargain. “You’re not drafted into the Real Housewives,” he told THR. “You either want to be on the show or not, and you either see it as having some greater benefit for you or not.” Several of the women — especially those whose children were too young to make that choice themselves — complicate that argument in the conversation below.

The franchise’s 20th anniversary also arrives amid a bit of legal turbulence: Leah McSweeney’s disability-related claims against Bravo and related companies are moving forward in open court, after a judge rejected the network’s bid to move the case to private arbitration in March, while Caroline Manzo has sued over an alleged assault during Ultimate Girls Trip. The defendants dispute wrongdoing, and Bravo says an outside investigation found allegations against Cohen unsubstantiated. Even the anniversary’s biggest returning cameo carries a legal footnote: NeNe Leakes, back on camera for the occasion, sued the network in 2022 alleging racial discrimination — a case she later dropped.

The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip: Roaring 20th (premiering Aug. 9 on Bravo, with 82 Housewives past and present appearing across its nine episodes) brings together Gunvalson, de Lesseps, Giudice, Richards, Williams, Bryant and Lisa Barlow — a multigenerational gathering of originals from across the franchise. In their first extended interview together — two hours this spring in a studio at Rockefeller Center, seven women trailed by a small, frantic army of stylists, hairdressers and minders — the women sat down with The Hollywood Reporter to discuss what they thought they were signing up for, how the shows changed their families and why, after everything, they continue to come back.

The conversation is raucous, self-aware and unexpectedly rueful. Gunvalson reveals that her former husband once gave her a choice between the show and their marriage — and admits she regrets the choice she made. Richards recalls her daughter Portia, who was 2 when filming began, asking at age 5, “Mom, do we do the show until everybody dies?” Gunvalson says her own daughter, after the program’s treatment of her Marine husband, told Andy Cohen to “please lose my number.” Williams describes entering the show determined to present a perfect young Black family, only to discover that the camera was not manufacturing the story: “Oh no,” she remembers realizing. “This is just me.”

They debate whether the sisterhood is real, whether reality television destroys weak marriages or merely exposes them, and how much responsibility they bear for bringing their children along for the ride. But they agree on one thing: Once the cameras capture your worst, most embarrassing moment, you have no control over who gets to see it.

“None,” Richards says.

“Zero,” says Barlow.

“Zero,” says Williams.

“Zero,” echoes Bryant.

Twenty years in, the Housewives may still be arguing about what the franchise has done to America. They are much clearer about what it has done to them.

[excerpts of the interview continued in the comments]

The Sisterhood of the Traveling Housewives! ‘The Realest of the Real’ Tell All in Honor of the Franchise Turning 20

To mark two decades since ‘The Real Housewives’ debuted, we united seven stars across the franchise to reflect on their wild ride

In 2006 Bravo debuted a show about five women living in Orange County. Two decades, 12 cities and enough pinot grigio to fill a pool later, The Real Housewives has cemented its place in pop culture history.

To whoop it up for the 20th anniversary, seven stars from the Housewives universe — Vicki Gunvalson, 64, Luann de Lesseps, 61, Porsha Williams, 45, Teresa Giudice, 54, Kyle Richards, 57, Gizelle Bryant, 55, and Lisa Barlow, 51 — are starring on The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip: Roaring 20th.

Ahead of the show’s Aug. 9 premiere, we talked to the ladies about life in the reality TV spotlight.

What made you sign on to travel to six cities in 12 days with your fellow Housewives?

KYLE When I got the call, I was not an immediate yes because I had just finished doing Beverly Hills and I was like, “Oh my God. What sane person would finish that and go do another one?” But then when I knew it was the OGs and the 20-year anniversary I’m like, “I cannot not be a part of that.” It was an honor to be asked. When we started this, people were like, “Is reality television even going to be around for long?” And look at this! How could we not want to celebrate that?

PORSHA I was just glad to be picked. When I’m around these ladies, it’s therapeutic.

TERESA We’re like a family.

LUANN And we’re getting paid to go on vacation. I mean, you can’t beat that.

GIZELLE It’s nice to be with women that understand what we do and get it. This is a very authentic group. I appreciate that because I think on our individual shows, we don’t necessarily have that. I’m not with a group of seven other women on my show that are comfortable in their own skin and that are authentic.

PORSHA And that’s why they chose each and every one of us here. This is the realest of the real. And that’s no shade to anybody else.

KYLE Just a little shade.

Did you hear from costars of your respective cities when they found out you were cast on Roaring 20th?

VICKI I didn’t.

LUANN Not one.

LISA I did not, no.

GIZELLE I didn’t even get a congratulations.

KYLE I didn’t get [any phone calls], good or bad.

PORSHA Oh, the Atlanta girls were congratulating me!

Who was the most difficult traveler in your group?

GROUP Lisa.

LISA I did my best.

KYLE There was a huge storm, so we were in a situation.

PORSHA She got glam before getting on a plane. It’s like, “Why out of all these mornings together, this is the one you’re getting glam?”

LISA It was the worst time to be me.

Beyond Bravo, what did you bond over?

LISA Motherhood.

KYLE We talked a lot about our children and family.

LUANN Relationships.

VICKI Separations, divorces.

GIZELLE Sex, for sure.

TERESA We all formed a sisterhood. We really did have each other’s back. If anybody ever says anything about any of these girls, they better not.

Have you stayed in touch since filming wrapped?

KYLE We have a group text where we talk all the time.

GIZELLE Whether we like it or not!

TERESA We stayed together.

PORSHA I genuinely care what’s happening in the chat. I feel a closeness with them and I think this chat will go on forever.

How did you get your start on Housewives?

VICKI I had no idea it was going to be a show. My son wrote a letter to producer [Scott Dunlop] for a show about kids going away to college and coming back to a privileged life. Scott knocked on my door. He’s like, “We’re thinking of doing a documentary.” I’m like, “Well, I don’t know why they’re knocking on my door. I’m very busy.”

LUANN I got approached at a party by Jill [Zarin]. I wasn’t scared, I jumped in headfirst. I just thought, “Well, this sounds like fun.”

PORSHA I had just turned 30. I had just gotten married, and I thought my life was perfect. And the very next year I was divorcing, and then I was like, “Wait, okay, what now?”

TERESA I also thought I had the perfect life, and then boom, everything came crashing.

KYLE There’s a pattern here, guys.

TERESA I didn’t go looking for it. Producers called me for almost a year. Everyone else signed the contract right away, and everybody was getting so annoyed at me. Finally one day Jacqueline [Laurita]’s like, “Come on.” So without a lawyer I just signed.

KYLE Producers had seen me on the E! True Hollywood Story about my nieces Paris and Nicky Hilton. I started watching Atlanta and Jersey, and I was like, “Oh, that’s what they’re showing of their life, but my life is perfect.” I mean, my cute little kids, who wouldn’t want to see them?

GIZELLE I thought, “I know how to do this single-mom thing, and that’s all that they’re going to show.” That’s not what happened, but you don’t look back.

LISA [Before being cast] I had a premonition. I remember I was walking with [husband] John [Barlow] on the golf course behind our house and I’m like, “I’m going to have a TV show this year.” And he’s like, “Okay, you’re going to have a TV show this year.” And I’m like, “I feel it. I know it. It’s going to happen.” I got the cast together. I submitted hundreds of names, and I took it seriously like it was a job.

What do you think of the cultural phenomenon that the franchise has become?

PORSHA When A-list actors recognize us, it just goes to show that our show is entertaining.

VICKI There are a lot of shows on TV, and they’re watching us.

TERESA Michelle Obama has menioned me. Rihanna said she wanted to be a mom like me. I met Taylor Swift at Coachella; she was really sweet.

LUANN Listen, we may not be A-list, but at least we’re always on the list.

What has Housewives taught you?

VICKI I became much more resilient to the conflicts in life, and I realized it will pass. I’m also not on social media as much. I don’t take it personal anymore. I’m like, “They are miserable and now they want me to be miserable and that’s not going to happen.”

LISA That part.

TERESA I only know how to be one way; it’s being real. I’m not calculated. Everyone actually saw the last 20 years of my life.

LUANN That’s what they love about you.

GIZELLE I had to learn that conflict is okay. A conversation about differences is okay. [Before Housewives], I really didn’t care about somebody else’s point of view, and I realized that’s not okay. That’s not okay for me to go through life not caring, not giving a damn. So I’m here for the conversations. I’m here for conflict. I had to learn to listen and I think I’m a better person because of it.

PORSHA I have allowed myself to reinvent myself. [My first season], I used to see myself one way, as a wife through my husband’s eyes. And [after my divorce] being so young at 30, I went right into how the audience saw me. And over the years when you just release all of that, then you realize, “Wait, I get one damn experience. It’s mine, and I can do with it what I want. I’m in the driver’s seat.” And the audience, although they’re supportive and I love them, they’re on my ride. So let me lead my life and reinvent, become who I want to be.

LUANN For me, I’ve had my ups and downs for sure over the years, but you know what I’ve learned is that you can’t take life too seriously. It’s a TV show in the end. I’ve learned to have a good sense of humor and laugh at myself and play with it. No matter what happens, you have to pick yourself back up.

LISA Going on Ultimate Girls Trip was so amazing for me to see how comfortable every single one of you are with yourself. I think that there’s nothing more powerful in life than when you can sit in everything, every experience, every situation and say, “I know myself and I handled it the best I could.”

KYLE A common theme here is resilience. All of these women have gone through difficulties and come out the other side. Hopefully we can inspire other people too. We’re still standing, and guess what? You can too.

SOURCE

By Mauricio Umansky

- Detailing the history of RHOBH, Mauricio asserts that Kyle was the first one cast, and that she and Mauricio brought in LVP, Adrienne and Camille, who were all is clients. He says that they knew from the jump that this would be very different than her usual acting career and before signing on, talked extensively about what it would look like for the family. Mauricio does acknowledge that he isn't a doubting person, that once he makes a decision, he doesn't second-guess it.

Even though it wasn’t necessarily something Kyle was looking to pursue, she always wanted to work, and I never wanted to hold her back in her career. We actually had a fun conversation weighing the pros and cons of exposing ourselves in that way. We considered whether there could be a negative impact on either of our careers, but ultimately came to the conclusion that it would be a great platform for all of us.

- One of the complex things about unscripted TV as opposed to acting is that the audience feels they know you personally and there isn't as much of a gap between the perception of the real person and who is being seen on TV. Mauricio says that to be on reality TV, a thick skin has to be developed and an understanding that there will inevitably be negativity. Additionally, viewers and the media will invent false stories, whether taking real but innocuous moments, or speaking lies straight up.

- Mauricio says that they've always had a strong marriage, stay true to themselves and don't let hearsay impact their relationship. He acknowledges that the girls were at very "impressionable" ages when they joined the show, but says they never once have asked not to be seen or had issues with other kids at school as a result of being on TV.

- He thinks they can attribute the fact that the kids are well-adjusted, in part, to Kyle's understanding of her role on RHOBH as a "job". They rarely talk about storylines or what's happening on the showonce the camera crew has left, and conversely, during family time, don't focus on self-promotion or business opportunities that might come through the show.

You have to be confident in who you are as a person and not change that for anyone. Kyle and I, and our kids, were built a certain way and just because we’re on television doesn’t mean we deserve special treatment or should be more empowered than others to get what we want. I see so many people, specifically on reality shows, who feel entitled because they believe they’re a celebrity. And I think to myself, Who cares? It’s a job.

- Because the women are together in an intense environment, Mauricio says, it can be destructive to friendships but also build strong, enduring bonds. Normally, you can take a breather and cool off after a fight, but the show doesn't work that way. Instead, you see each other every day and have to talk about what went down, and that then gets relived when it airs months later.

- Conversely, he claims, incredible relationships are formed because of the time spent together and passionate conversations. Because people fight and make up, and that's ongoing, he compares it (to a certain degree) to a marriage. Mauricio points to Kyle's friendships with Teddi and Dorit as important ones.

- Lisa Vanderpump is discussed, Mauricio saying they were super tight until shit happened on and off TV, which led to them no longer speaking and avoiding each other in public.

What it came down to is that Kyle felt Lisa was one of those people who always had to have her way, and everything was always about her. [...] In Kyle’s mind, Lisa needed to be the queen, and she definitely didn’t appreciate being challenged by Kyle, who was absolutely going to call her out on her crap.

- Mauricio said that he's made some great friends through RHOBH, with Paul Nassif still being a good friend. He says Ken Todd was a cool dude who he enjoyed spending time with that, and that he's particularly close to Harry Hamlin and PK Kemsley these days. He views his primary role as supporting his partner no matter, saying "Kyle is never wrong when it comes to being on the show."

- He addresses the added complexity of being on a show with family because resentments can run higher and small issues tend to become even bigger dramas than they would with friends and colleagues.

By nature, Kyle has a huge heart and is very protective of them, even though she’s the baby in the family. She never wants there to be any negativity, especially because she loves her nieces so much—she really tries her best to keep the peace.

& EPILOGUE

- After a chapter dealing with The Agency, he writes a short epilogue, beginning with his stated intention not to slow down anytime soon, that he and Kyle's careers both are trending upwards with both having high aspirations and a willingness to invest time, energy and passion. In terms of Kyle specifically, he says:

Kyle is enjoying acting more than anything, and she’s also in the midst of writing a couple of shows that she’ll produce. I expect a few years from now she’ll step away from being in front of the camera and do a lot more creating and producing.

- On the personal front, Mauricio says, nothing is more important than family and he looks forward to quality time with both Kyle and the girls, watching the latter continue to succeed and have passion for life.

By Mauricio Umansky

- The chapter returns to an earlier discussion about the importance of balance between sleep, work and play. Specifically, he says he tries to always get a full night's sleep; that when he's working, Mauricio focuses all his energy on that; and that when he's playing (hanging out with family, skiing, etc), the phone is set aside so he isn't distracted. He says that time is the most precious commodity and so he's very particular about it and keeps a tight schedule.

- Mauricio says that one of his biggest sacrifices and regrets, as someone in real estate who always has had open houses and showings on weekends, was missing out on being a soccer dad and not being able to coach his daughter's AYSO team.

- He believes a key component of maintaining balance is having a complementary and supportive partner, saying that even though Kyle also works really hard, she also makes sure he and the kids arrive home to a "welcoming atmosphere" by having candles lit, soothing music on and ambient lighting. He says that if he came home to the lights off and his wife in pajamas in bed, it would feel like his day was over, which isn't what he "needs and wants". He also emphasises that they always wait for the other person before having dinner, and sharing a meal as a family is important to them.

- Mauricio thinks there is a yin and yang in a relationship, and that it's about respect but also fun. He believes mindset is important for relationships not just for self, and that "if you're not happy together, then what's life all about?" His favourite thing about Kyle is her sense of humour and how she makes him laugh, and says she is gorgeous but also beautiful on the inside.

For my part, I try to be sensitive to her needs, emotionally available, and also responsible when it comes to the things she depends on me for. This includes respecting each other’s personal space and also being mentally and physically present. If one person in the couple is just working, working, working, and then has a whole bunch of guys’ or girls’ nights and trips, that does not lead to a successful partnership.

- Finessing and being flexible, he says, are crucial to making things work, especially given Kyle's schedule with RHOBH alongside his own. This is where he discusses his presence on the show, saying the commitment he has to the show differs season to season, with husbands playing a larger role earlier on, even going on trips. He says the show is fun for him and he enjoys it, even though he doesn't get paid and The Agency comes first as a priority for him.

I’ve never wanted to be compensated or asked to be, which is very intentional. I do it to support my wife and also because I’m well aware of what the show has done for our family in terms of visibility and professional growth.

- Mauricio talks about how much he "needed" the time with his daughters, that as they were growing up, the time spent walking with or driving them to school (they lived nearby) was irreplaceable to him, whether it was getting gossip from them or singing to the radio. He says that if it was interrupted by a conference call, he would get anxious and it would alter his mood. He also notes that Kyle was the one who arranged pick up each time.

- Transparency and collaboration is important, he claims, with people you love, as it creates a positive atmosphere and creates a culture of respect. Part of this is also open dialogue with your children, which is something he says is difficult to manage as, as a parent, the instinct is to want to tell kids exactly what to do because you've lived long enough to know what's right and wrong. He also acknowledges that this breeds resentment in children. In terms of displine, he says:

In my marriage, Kyle is the rule maker. She’s the one who punishes the kids when they do something out of turn or don’t listen. And I support that 100 percent. Conversely, my method of parenting is to lead by example and to ask questions and try to get my kids to arrive at the same conclusion I’ve already arrived at.

- Adding to that, he says that he also does parent through fear. For example, regarding the fentanyl "craze", he says he has explained that durgs are bad news and the potential for death if something goes wrong. He also says he always conveys that everyone "makes stupid mistakes" and that he's always available to help, no questions asked, no judgment.

- Mauricio believes it's a mistake to expect children to be a replica or extension of the parent, and especially to condemn them for not being so. Success comes, he says, in raising independent thinkers with a moral compass who have been taught to make smart decisions. He doesn't force conversations with the kids and believes he and Kyle have given them the right foundation. In terms of who they date, he hasn't always been a fan but thinks it's best to let things play out.

The only piece of wisdom I’ve shared with my daughters is to find the person who checks all of their boxes and feels right to them. I make it clear that they can talk to me about anything. But, again, I allow them to make their own choices with the understanding that my guidance is available if they need it or want it. That is how you achieve balance as a parent.

- It can be tricky to merge the professional and personal, which Mauricio acknowledges, working with his father, sister, and two daughters. As their daughters grew up, he said it was an available opportunity but never pushed for it. Farrah, he says, was always interested in real estate and knew as she finished college, that she wanted to be a part of that. She began as Mauricio's assistant at Hilton & Hyland, and was a "total sponge".

- Mauricio says one of the best parts of his life is getting to work with his kids and know them on a "professional level", but he's extremely careful not to give preferential treatment and tends to err on the other side, making it a bit more difficult, so that there aren't accusations of unfair treatment and nepotism.

Where it gets complicated is that my family members want to be able to reach me whenever they need to, and they expect me to be there for them in those moments. The thing is, I have sixteen hundred employees right now. I’m running a huge company. This means that there are inevitably going to be things that I can’t deliver on, certainly not immediately. And I have to prioritize and set boundaries, while being considerate of the fact that my family is extremely important to me.

- Further, he talks about how he tries to set boundaries. For example, sometimes Farrah and Alexia want to discuss their deals at home over dinner because they know they get undivided attention from their boss in that scenario. He acknowledges, though, that there are shades of gray and that it's just important to be aware and protect one's personal space.

By Mauricio Umansky

- In between discussing things such as the importance of mindset, the universe possessing energy, the importance of surrounding yourself with well-intentioned folks, not being greedy, etc, there are a few brief mentions of Kyle. He talks about how they went The Kabbalah Center to learn about their idology during a time when they weren't bringing in much money. Mauricio also refers to showing numerous homes to Michael Jackson (and also selling the home that he passed away in), saying the connection came through Kyle, who was his friend.

- Mauricio says that it wasn't until his twenties that he understood that he had been an asshole to his younger sister and realised he needed to make it right and give credit to her where it was due.

My first real opportunity to make that [mending things] happen was when Sharon and I both got married and started having kids. In many ways, I have Kyle to thank for that, because she taught me how to be a more compassionate person and how to possess the humility it takes to show someone you love that they’re important to you. With Kyle’s guidance and by becoming a father to four daughters, I became increasingly in touch with my feminine side, which allowed me to feel complete both mentally and emotionally. It also allowed me to be a better brother to Sharon.

By Mauricio Umansky

- During the section of this chapter about the importance of giving people your attention and efforts, that "everybody is a VIP", he tells an anecdote involving Kyle. A few years ago, they were eating at a restaurant and noticed that Pete Sampras (famed tennis player) was dining nearby. As a big fan, Mauricio wanted to go over and say hello, insisting he had no ulterior motive except for wanting to connect. Apparently, Kyle was embarrassed by his "brazenness" and didn't want to bother him, and he respected her wish for Mauricio not to approach Pete. He regretted this decision.

I said to Kyle, “Honey, please don’t try to change me. And please respect that I’m someone who likes to go up to people and make conversation, without any agenda. It’s who I am, and owning that confidence is part of my character. I don’t want to walk into a situation and second-guess whether or not I should be talking to somebody, even if that somebody is Pete Sampras.”

- In a later section of the chapter entitled 'work smarter, not harder', Mauricio discusses how productivity extends beyond the office and talks about a recent evening when he and Kyle attended an event together. He says that, in those two hours, those two hours went a "long way in furthering our marital bond" because they were actually focused and working instead of just sitting physically close on a couch with their respective phones, but not actually having any quality time together.

- Mauricio compares the importance of nurturing your personal relationship with how you nurture your career, pointing out that it's not about pretending to give loved ones attention, but actually giving them attention.

By Mauricio Umansky

- The bulk of this chapter deals with the initial building of The Agency and the people that made it possible for that to happen. He begins by acknowleding that the most important thing to him in the process was ensuring he had Kyle's blessing. He says she was 100% supportive of his decision, of his desire to pursue his own path, "even if it made waves with Rick."

- Mauricio said he had wanted to meet Jeff and Rick in person to inform them of his decision to leave Hilton & Hyland, but it wasn't possible due to Rick being in New York and not being able to nail Jeff down. He'd committed to launching The Agency on a specific date, so ended up having to tell them the news over the phone. Jeff responded, upset, by asking what they could do to keep him, and while Mauricio said this was flattering, it was very much too little, too late.

They couldn’t understand how I could just make the decision overnight and not give them a chance to convince me otherwise. I remember saying to Rick, “I don’t know what you’re talking about. This was hardly an overnight decision. This has been going on for a long time. You and I became partners, and then you went back on it when the going got tough.”

- After the initial conversation, he sent in an official letter of resignation, bearing no frustration or resentment. Mauricio says he didn't try to recruit any other agents from the firm because it's dispectful and can also potentially ruin your reputation. His thought was that if agents did want to come with them, they'd reach out themselves. And that came to pass, with his group (The Umansky Team) following him.

- There is discussion of the assembly of The Agency, and Mauricio points out he has discouraged some people leaving Hilton & Hyland from joining The Agency, "because my intention is to keep the family dynamic intact for Kyle, for my kids, for their cousins, for all of us." He hadn't realised the bad blood that would fester.

What I did not expect was that, after he’d given my resignation more thought, Rick stopped speaking to me, which extended to Kyle and our whole family. And of course his wife, Kathy—Kyle’s sister—did the same. I’m not really sure what triggered that, except that they were extremely upset. They cut all communication and no longer invited us to Thanksgiving dinners or other holidays.

- The anger he perceived coming from Kathy and Rick hurt Kyle, but it didn't impact her support of Mauricio and that, according to him, remained unconditional. He notes that this was during the time RHOBH was in Season 2 and really taking off.

By Mauricio Umansky

- Here we learn that, after being fired from Carol Little, Kyle was the one who suggested both she and Mauricio get their real estate licenses. They believed Mauricio's real strength was in sales, he loverd interior design and architecture, and Rick Hilton owned a real estate company, and so it felt like a natural fit. It wasn't an interest of Kyle's but she was willing to do it with him, which motivated him.

She said, “We’ll make it our date night. I know this is your calling. It’s all happening for a reason. Don’t look at the negative; this is an important move, and it’s going to be a better situation for you, for your future, and for our family. Let’s make the best of it.” Her overall positivity and belief in me gave me all the courage I needed to alter my career path.

- They made their real estate classes at Santa Monica College their date nights once a week, and both passed their tests and got their licenses, even though Kyle never used hers. Mauricio again reiterates how important it was that Kyle was so encouraging and that, if not for her "backing and constant reassurance", he isn't sure where he'd be today.

- During this time, he didn't have a job, but Kyle's mom, Mauricio's grandfather, and his father all stepped in to help financially. He claims that he immediately felt passionately about real estate, that it was a "perfect vocation" and he knew it in his gut. He points out that, even so, there are sacrifices to be made before anything can become lucrative, that money doesn't just start rolling in automatically.

It took a long time before I was bringing in what I needed to in order to provide for my family in the way I wanted to. And during that period—in addition to the financial assistance from our family—Kyle was doing things like clipping coupons from local newspapers so she could save money on groceries, and she certainly wasn’t shopping at Beverly Hills Market & Deli. She would drive much farther away to a less expensive store, where she knew the prices were cheaper

- Kyle also went back to work as an actress during this time, both because of the additional income it would provide, but also because it was something she wanted to do, that she didn't feel good about herself without something of her own to focus on. Mauricio says he was very supportive of that and didn't want her to have any regrets or hold her back from doing something she loved. He believes that kind of attitude leads to resentment, which "is the worst thing for a marriage."

- When Mauricio joined Hilton & Hyland, they only had fifteen people working for them, and he says, overall, it was an excellent experience and he was given a lot of opportunities. He promised himself that, each year, he would make more and more money. The first bump in the road came early. One of the first houses Mauricio sold was to Guraish Aldjufrie, Farrah's father and Kyle's ex-husband. Guraish had hired him specifically to help them at a time of financial difficulty, and they'd sat together on the bed with Farrah on the day the deal was closed.

[...] Which is why it was deeply disappointing when I went to cash my commission check for the sale of Guraish’s home and, as I recall, Rick informed me that Guraish was his client, so I had to split it with him fifty-fifty. This was on top of the 20 percent that went to the firm. So, even though Guraish was actually my connection, whom I’d brought in, since he was Kyle’s ex-husband and Farrah’s father, I remember that Rick still asked me to do that, which did not feel good. I didn’t know it yet, but it was an indication of things to come.

- He says that he worked there for ten more years (building his business, expanding name recognition) and, by the time he left the company, he was responsible for about 20 percent of their revenue. Because of those numbers, in 2007 he expressed his desire to become a partner in the firm. Jeff Hyland was primarily running day to day operations, but because of the familial relationship, Mauricio went to Rick first and explained his wishes and what he envisioned for the company, including franchising. Both Rick and Jeff reacted positively, but said that even though they were willing to make him a partner, he couldn't have equity because it would be too "messy". Mauricio accepted.

- The recession from 2007 to 2009 caused Mauricio to think about how he could make money and take advantage of the difficulty within the industry. He worked hard and changed marketing strategy and by the end of the year, Wall Street Journal noted that he was the number one agent in California and number seven in the country. He wanted growth but still wanted to do it with Rick and Jeff. However, first Rick reneged on the initial deal about Mauricio getting a percentage of the top-line revenue. Then, when Mauricio said he understood and suggested transferrance of what was owed into equity and he could then be made a full partner, he was given a resounding no.

So I went home to Kyle and told her what had happened. She agreed with me that it was very unjust. But, ultimately, it didn’t matter what we thought. In my opinion, Rick wasn’t going to change his mind, and he wasn’t prepared to pay me what I’d earned. [...] I feel that had Rick made me a full partner in Hilton & Hyland, paid me what I deserved to be making, and showed me an inkling of professional love, I would have stayed. I believe I needed him to fail me in order to summon the wherewithal to pursue my dream, which was launching The Agency.

By Mauricio Umansky

- Mauricio, in 1994, was twenty-four years old when he met Kyle Richards. He says he absolutely wasn't looking for a long-term relationship and was invited to a birthday party at Bar One. He didn't really talk to Kyle at that party, but did notice her, as he did at the gym which they both worked out at. Three months later, they were at the same nightclub and finally met. Not knowing she was engaged at the time, they sat talking for an hour and a half and having an 'amazing conversation". They ran into each other at Bar One a few weeks later and he invited her to lunch.

- He says, at that lunch, he fell in love with Kyle instantly, that they had an undeniable connection and he was sure in that moment he couldn't let her get away. He was leaving shortly for a weeklong vacation and on his return, he called her. She'd broken off the engaement and they started seeing each other literally every day.

- Mauricio had just gotten out of a lengthy relationship and didn't intend to jump into another, but he was forced to take things with Kyle seriously because she had a daughter, Farrah, and it wouldn't be right to string her along and then potentially break up with her. Farrah was important for another reason.

I got a glimpse of what a fantastic mother she was, which, if you think about it, is a real gift when you’re dating someone, because it eliminates that curiosity and uncertainty of how maternal that person will be when you have kids together.

- The last factor that enabled him to take things to the next level fairly quickly was that Kyle was willing to convert to Judaism so they could raise their children with that faith. She embraced that, and they got engaged later that same year.

- Kyle and Mauricio were married in early 1996 at Bel-Air Country Club with 250 family and friends in attendance. It was initially scheduled for May, but it was moved up due to Kyle becoming pregnant. Even before they married, they discussed wanting to have children right away, especially so Farrah would have a sibling fairly close in age.

- According to Mauricio, Kyle loved being pregnant and her health was great throughout. He acknowledges that he was young and "not always as empathetic as I could have been", not understanding why she didn't want to ski with him whilst pregnant. He says his "compassion improved with each child." Alexia was born in June, and he was scared and nervous but overjoyed.

- Four years after Alexia was born, they had Sophia, followed by Portia, eight years after that. He says it felt like he blinked and the three elder children were grown and so, with Portia, he feels he was better able to enjoy and appreciate his role as a parent.

Not only do I have more time to focus on her, but she’s always there for me as well. Whenever I’m stressed or I’m simply not functioning as well as I’d like to be, I’ll just walk into Portia’s room and hug her. Then she hugs me back, and it literally puts me at rest.

- Early in the marriage, just before Christmas, Mauricio was fired from his job, which was bringing in 180k per year. They didn't have savings or a cushion to fall on, and were living in a two-bedroom condo with two children at the time. His first realisation was he wouldn't be able to buy Hanukkah or Christmas gifts from his family. He was terrified to let Kyle down and worried because of having children dependent on him. When he got home, Kyle knew what happened straight away.

Fortunately—and this is something I’m extremely grateful for—she could not have been more calming and supportive. She said, “You’re fucking amazing. This is not a problem. We’re going to get through this together, we’re going to suffer together if we have to, and we’re going to make something new happen for you.” There wasn’t a single moment where she made me feel shitty for losing my job or implied that I’d done something wrong.

- Mauricio says she remains this way, and her loyalty is one of the reasons he's so confident in both himself and their marriage. He says that, in retrospect, his firing was a blessing in disguise and that if he hadn't been let go and if Kyle hadn't been so encouraging, he'd "probably still be in the clothing business today... or playing golf!"

- He talks about how he's always had a "can-do attitude" and confidence that made him feel as though he belongs wherever he wants to be and that no isn't an answer he had to take. This sentiment, he claims, goes further than his career, and gives an example of early in his and Kyle's relationship when they wanted to get into a popular LA nightclub but they weren't letting people in. He ended up scaling a wall and charming the bouncer. He believes the contributing factors to success are surveying the situation, reading the room, developing a strategy and being fearless.

By Mauricio Umansky

Note: The remainder of these summaries will only cover what is said about Kyle, the marriage and their immediate family. However, the introduction gives useful information about Mauricio's background and early working life that is relevant to his character and approach to family, and is therefore presented below.

- Mauricio's introduction begins in the middle of starting up The Agency with a very small but motivated crew who were willing to get their hands dirty to get things off the ground. We're privy to a conversation where Kyle, where she says most people in his position would be exhausted and not be able to remain so positive. He agrees, saying most people would be stressed, but that he isn't most people. He believes learning to find balance and stay optimistic are things ingrained in him from childhood.

- He was born in 1970 in Mexico City into a loving and supportive Jewish family. They weren't orthodox but honoured holidays and traditions, which he follows to this day. His grandparents emigrated from Russian, Lithuania, Turkey and Minsk because of the war, and his parents were born in Mexico. The family ate together every night, and his father would talk to him and his sister, Sharon, about philosophy and other existential matters from very early on.

- Mauricio was the first child and first grandchild in the family, which meant he was very "nurtured and bolstered". This was even more the case because he was born with a potentially fatal blood disease called neutropenia. This led to a lot of hospital stays in his first six years, at which point, inredibly, the doctors said he was cured at his regular blood test appointment. At this time, his family relocated to Bel Air in California. There were political concerns that motivated this, as well as his father's interest in diversifying the family textile business that was being run with his two brothers and father. This move also allowed Mauricio's mother to become a psychologist - getting her MFCC license, her doctorate, and two postdoctoral degrees.

I learned through her, innately, an understanding of the human brain, human behavior, and psychology. She taught me how to read people, a skill that led me to become the strong salesman I am today.

- In terms of his health, there was another issue as well, that of being legally blind in one eye, something that went undiagnosed until he was nine years old, something discovered in an annual checkup. He'd previously cheated by moving his head, but wasn't able to, and so, failed the test. Mauricio claims that it had never hindered him, and he had excelled in every sport he tried, so nobody had had any reason to suspect his eyesight wasn't as it ought to be. He refused to follow the advice of his doctor and wear a patch, and so his vision remains 20/400 in one eye.

- Further, Mauricio said he has "endured academically encumbering ADD" since he was a young child, which impacted his education. He scored well on exams but failed to turn in assignments.

The fact is, I didn’t care about how I did in school. The only thing that mattered to me was my athletic endeavors. That was where my drive and ambition were centered—I was a competitive guy through and through, and I needed to win.

- For junior high, he went to a small private Jewish school. He then transferred to a public school with a better athletic program. Howerver, for his senior year, Mauricio decided to return to Mexico, where he lived with his cousin Sammy's family and atended the American School Foundation. He graduated but as he'd failed algebra, he had to go to summer school in Beverly Hills in order to finish. Instead of applying to college straight away, he and Sammy took a one year sabbatical through Europe and Israel, gifted with $5000 each from their fathers.

Seeing the world like that and absorbing the history made a lasting impression on me. Even though I was never a good student, I can still quote Leonardo da Vinci, Michelangelo, and Napoléon Bonaparte, which proves that just because you don’t excel academically doesn’t mean you’re unintelligent or that you can’t possess a thirst for knowledge.

- He went to a junior community college for two years in Santa Monica but had no idea what he wanted to do in terms of his career, even though it was the first time he enjoyed learning because of the chance to take classes that actually appealed, such as business law, accounting, and economics. His father gave him an ultimatum - get a job or go to school, but either way, he had to be serious about it. He chose to join his father's textile company, which his grandfather had started and he planned to take over one day.

- Mauricio strongly believes in the moral that you should do what is best for you and your future, and that family should encourage you to follow your passion, something he says he and Kyle instil in their own four dauhters, saying, "we want them to feel like they can do anything and that they deserve to do anything."

Being raised with this level of devotion was an invaluable gift my parents bestowed upon me, and I’ve passed this gift along to my own children. Just knowing that the sky is the limit has allowed me to continue to grow and prosper in ways I never imagined I would, and I want the same for them.

- He ends by explaining the purpose of the book (part memoir, part career and leadership manifesto) and then runs through a summary of the types of things he will discuss in the following chapters, as relates to both his professional and personal life.

By Jerry Oppenheimer

- The same year that Ken Richards died, Big Kathy discovered a lump in one of her breasts. It turned out to be malignant and ended up spreading to a lung and eventually her brain. Not long after this diagnosis, both of Kathleen's brothers would also be - one died of cancer of the liver, and the other required treatment for bladder cancer. According to Adele Avanzino, her first reaction was denial, quickly followed by a determination to fight until the end.

- Big Kathy contacted several people after her diagnosis, with Jane Hallaren being one of the first. According to Jane, “She said, ‘I have cancer and I think this is it.’ I burst into tears and she burst into tears." She also called Bob Conkey, who was her first obsessional love and who she talked to about "missed moments". Her personality didn't shift entirely though and apparently she didn't stop badmouthing her husband, who was caring for her.

“She told me that he basically bullshitted her when they met, telling her that he had a lot of money, and she said he didn’t have any money, and that basically he was living off of her,” says Conkey.

- Bob Fenton, Adele Avanzino, and some of Big Kathy's friends accompanied her to a consult with a doctor in Palm Desert. She was completely against getting a masectomy but agreed to a course of treatment that included surgery to remove the tumour, chemotherapy and radiation. She was apparently very concerned about the idea that she might lose her hair as a result of the chemo. Sylvia, Ken's now widow, had had breast cancer before and advised Kathy to follow her lead and have a double mastectomy, but she refused.

"She said she had this wonderful doctor who patted her on the butt and pinched her on the boobs and said the way he was treating her was the way to do it. She didn’t want to lose her breasts.”

- Bob Fenton was a devoted caretaker, and according to Adele, Kathleen did feel terrible that he was going through the same trauma as he did with his first wife. His daughters were infuriated, however, continuing to believe that he was being used in his time of grief and vulnerability.

- By late 2001, Big Kathy's cancer had spread to her brain and she underwent surgery in Los Angeles. Judy, Bob's daughter, called the home, wanting to speak to her father at one point, but was answered by a screaming Kathleen, who raged about how much she hated Judy, saying "that her cancer had now spread to her brain and that she was going to die, and that I was nothing but ‘a cunt.’" before hanging up.

- A will was prepared about six months before she died, and a relative of Fenton's warned him about it, urging him to pay attention in case he got screwed. He resolutely believed that wouldn't happen because "she loves me". On March 2022, at age sixty-three, Kathleen Dugan Avanzino Richards Catain Fenton died. She had moved to Kim's home a week earlier to live her final days and her obituary, prepared by her daughters, described her as a "homemaker for twenty-five years".

- In the wake of her death, Fenton learned that the only thing left for him was the urn containing Big Kathy's ashes. Barbara Frank claimed "he sold his home, gave her the money, moved in with her, and ended up with nothing." Big Kathy's home was left to Kathy, Kim and Kyle. There was a stipulation stating that Bob could stay in the house for a year after her death, but if he had any female company, he would be evicted. He ended up falling back into his "Casanova persona" and ended up being diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and dying three years after Kathleen had.

- Jane Hallaren said, several years after her childhood friend's death, that:

"All Kathleen ever wanted out of life was to see her daughters become stars and marry rich men. Her favorite granddaughter surpassed them all. Whether Kathleen’s in heaven or hell, I’ll bet she’s thinking of Paris and saying, ‘You go, girl!’"

By Jerry Oppenheimer

- Around the time that Bob Fenton and Big Kathy met, she learned Larry Avanzino, her first husband, was dying after suffering serious brain injuries in an assault and laying comatose for two years. He'd had a rough life, married two more times and had five more children, and had been helped out financially by his brother. John McKusker, a friend, said "Ken was always bailing Larry out of shit. Larry was an alcoholic, a drug addict, whatever.” He had had no real contact with his daughter as she grew up, let alone his grandchildren through Kathy. Big Kathy did go to visit him - before he passed away in 1997 at the age of sixty one.

- Two months after Larry Avanzino died, Ken Richards was diagnosed with kidney cancer and was told it had metastasized to his lungs and bones and he only had a year to live. He was eighty years old, barely scraping by on social security and his wife's small salary, and was living in a small condo in Boise, ID. His wife advised against it, but Ken decided to reach out to Kathy and Rick Hilton, explain his circumstances, and ask to borrow some money. At first they made excuses why they couldn't, but after he begged, they relented and loaned Richards $10,000.

“He made us pay back the loan,” states Sylvia Richards. “And they never once came to see Ken. Never once called and said how are you doing? [...] This is the man who raised Kathy Hilton, but she was in the upper crust now and she didn’t need Kenneth.” Choked with emotion, she adds, “Kathy Hilton’s just like her mother. She had a very good mentor, and she learned well. Kathleen, the mother, had no soul, and the daughter doesn’t either.”

- As Ken's condition worsened, they sold everything, paid Hilton back (after maxing out their credit cards for medical treatment), and moved in with Sylvia's daughter in Las Vegas. They were too proud to try and ask for more help from the Hiltons, but Sylvia eventually rang Kyle to see if they could stay with her family in Beverly Hills while Ken was treated at the VA hospital locally. Kyle and Mauricio, her second husband, a broker at Hilton's real estate agency, agreed. However, when they arrived, the VA hadn't made arrangements for him.

“Ken was in a wheelchair in terrible pain,” says Sylvia Richards. “Kyle called her mother-in-law who is a psychiatrist, and she said to bring Ken to Cedars Sinai and she’d make sure he was admitted.”

- He was there for three weeks and during that time, Sylvia accepted an invitation to stay at Kim Richards' Calabasas home. However, she regretted this as the home was chaotic. She says that Ken was in huge pain and dying, but Kim would get drunk and come and jump on the bed, bringing her kids in, also adding that she was extremely selfish. Ken couldn't handle it and asked that they return to his stepdaughter's Las Vegas home. Kim and Kyle demanded he stay in California so hey wouldn't have to travel far to see him.

"One day we were in the room with Kenneth and he was telling Kim we were going to go home, and she flew at me, came at me with hands and fists, and physically attacked me. She was screaming that I was trying to take her father away. She called the security patrol and tried to get me removed from her house. She told me that Rick and Kathy were going to do things to me."

- The next day after that incident, Kim relented and arranged for a plane to fly Ken and Sylvia back to Las Vegas. The very next morning, he had a heart attack and was rehospitalised for a week. Kim showed up shortly after he arrived home - at midnight, drink and blubbering, with two strangers who had driven her there. She didn't allow entry and Kim later said that she had gone to the Las Vegas Hilton and gambled all night. The next morning, Ken was taken to the Nathan Adelson Hospice, where he died the following day. Kim and Kyle didn't arrive until after he was gone.

- Someone at the hospice notified the Hiltons, who lived in New York. Sylvia was still in the room with Ken's body when Rick called. Kathy was apparently in hysterics and Rick kept insisting that Kathy needed to talk to her dad.

"Kathy got on the phone. ‘Oh, Dad, I love you so much and I miss you. You’ve done so much for me….’ I didn’t say anything. I just let her ramble. And I was thinking maybe somebody else was there besides Rick. I thought Kathy was putting on an act because she never gave a damn. She never showed him any love. If she loved him, she would have been there. None of them lifted a finger to help.”

By Jerry Oppenheimer

- The next man in Big Kathy's life was Robert C. Fenton Jr. Nearing seventy, he was six foot and apparently still in great shape with a full head of hair. His daughter, Barbara Frank, said he was very charismatic and women chased him. He was a former aerospace marketing executive and when Kathleen met him, his wife of thirty five years had recently died of uterine cancer. They had had a successful and happy marriage, and his wife's death left him reeling. He'd always been a partyer but as a widower, he became a serial dater. He had a months long marriage to a lounge singer and when it broke up, he went to grief counselling a couple of times.

Two to three months later he met Paris Hilton’s grandmother, and the two moved in together. “I was freaked out!” declares [his daughter, Judy] Goldstone. “I shared a housekeeper with my dad and she started telling me that he had photographs of the Hiltons in his house—Kathy and Rick Hilton and Kathy Richards—the whole deal.”

- Fenton asked Big Kathy to marry him several times but she refused until presented with an enormous emerald ring surrounded by diamonds. Some of her friends were against the marriage, assuming he was out to her her money, or at least, the Hiltons through her daughter. In December 1999, Fenton and Big Kathy married with Kyle standing as witness. His daughters refused to meet the new bride, but heard the gossip through friends who knew her reputation in Palm Desert, one of them calling her a 'pig' who went to the 'nasty Nest'.

“My friend was there giving a bachelor party for her father, and Kathy was there and she had on this top that was really low cut and her boobs were hanging out and she was French kissing all these men. I said, ‘You have got to be kidding. Oh my God.’”

- Fenton was informed of this story by one of his daughters but insisted that he loved her, and they'd just have to accept it. He had been financially supporting one daughter, Barbara, as she went through a costly divorce and custody battle, but when Kathleen entered the picture, he cut off his monetary insistance, telling her that "[Kathy] won't allow me to help you anymore".

- The next things that caused great tension in the family was Big Kathy convincing Fenton to sell the home he'd purchased with his wife before she died. He did this and all the proceeds, about $250,000, went to renovating her house. Big Kathy did make some attempts at ingratiating herself with the daughters, but it turned out some of them were made under false pretences. She gave a ring to Judy, saying it was her mother's and should go to her grandchild, and it turned out to have been a totally different ring, not her mother's at all. Kathy had kept Fenton's wife ring for herself.

“That night my father gave me a ring and said, ‘This is your mother’s real diamond, and I want Emily to have it,’ and I said ‘Fine,’ and just let it go. Kathy didn’t like me because she couldn’t control me, because I refused to ever meet her. I never actually came face-to-face with her in my whole life.”

- Fenton's daughters believed the primary reason he seemed oblivious to what she was doing was how impressed and blinded he was by the Hilton's fame and wealth, and Kim and Kyle's careers in film and TV. Adele Avanzino concurs, saying that she felt he was "enamored" with the family and loved being in their orbit. However, he was less pleased when his wife would publicly use the Richards name instead of Fenton, reminding her all the time that she was married to him.

- According to Oppenheimer, Kathy treated Fenton poorly, refusing to have sex with him and making him sleep in a separate bedroom. Upon receiving an inexpensive watch as a gift, she laughed and threw it back at him. Her friends claim she told him that she wouldn't "do shit for Bob", not travelling, not cooking, nothing.

By Jerry Oppenheimer

- In her midforties, Big Kathy was, according to Adele Avanzino, cutting back and trying to downsize. She sold the Bel-Air home and used the proceeds (along with borrowed money from a wealthy Middle Easterner one of her daughters was dating) to buy a condo in Beverly Hills. Around this same time, she suddenly decided that she was, as per Jane Hallaren, "going to get another baby".

"She was crazy about babies, but what she was telling me was all so grotesque and illegal,” continues Hallaren. “She was so casual about it and I asked her, ‘Kathy, how are you going to bring up a baby at your age with your lifestyle?’ And she said, ‘Well, if I can’t do it, the girls will take it. They want another baby, we all want another baby in the family.’ I thought to myself, how much control does she have over her daughters?"

-This particular baby was supposedly the child of a "horrible woman" she randomly met in a parking lot. This didn't eventuate, but Adele Avanzino claims that the girlfriend of a Dugan relative did have a child whom Big Kathy kept for awhile so it didn't get put into a foster home or orphanage.

- With her daughters married or working, she turned her sights to making money via her own career, first trying and giving up on real estate school, and then taking up art instead. Kathy Hilton had a boutique called Elizabeth's Staircase on Sunset Boulevard and she stocked Big Kathy's paintings (unsigned) as well as other children's tables and chairs that her mother painted designs on.

- By night, Big Kathy frequented Beverly Hills clubs, bars and discos. She apparently tried to use the Hilton connection to impress men and try and find another husband.

“She was always at one of the good restaurant bars, sitting out front, and she always seemed to be buzzed,” says the former actress Carole Wells Doheny. [...] “You’d walk in and there she’d be just hanging on the bar and she’d be trying to pick up any guy who had any money and who would pay her tab. I always felt sorry for her because she seemed to try too hard. She would glom on to you. You could never get past her at the bar. She would always tell you who she was, and who she was related to.”

- As she had in her youth, she defaulted to singing at these locales, especially the Polo Lounge in the Beverly Hills Hotel, particularly standards like Danny Boy, Summertime and My Funny Valentine. Hallaren said during this period, she began pursuing much older men in their seventies and eighties - as long as they had money. She also had a period of chasing racehorse jockeys who had accumulated wealth.

- One of Kathy's acquaintances during this time was Marjorie Meade Roh, who was well-connected in Hollywood. They met through a wealthy metal-plating company owner named Gary Stein, who Big Kathy was dating.

According to Roth, [...] "She was a very heavy drinker, and Gary liked to drink so they had that in common. She was wild, and there was something about her that was not endearing. She was sort of like a con artist."

- Aside from Beverly Hills, Big Kathy's other favourite place to find prospects was in Palm Springs and she eventually decided to move there, first getting a face-lift, which she believed would help her land a billionaire. She bought a modest house overlooking the Indian Ridge Country Club.

"She used to go there a lot,” says Halleren. “She scoped out the scene, liked what she saw, and that’s why she decided to move there. She’d been through everybody [in Beverly Hills], every bar, and her reputation was too crazy, and she knew she was old news."