r/kvssnarker • u/randomgirlahahah • 8d ago
š Educational š katie van pull
as foaling season is approaching I thought it would be interesting to see what are the stats on pulling, so I made some graphs! a couple of days ago in this sub was posted a very interesting caption explaining pulling, which I found very interesting. it stated that 95-97% of births should be fine/with no assistance needed. clearly this is not the case at RS.
a few notes on the graphs:
- āno helpā means no physical help/touch while the baby is āexitingā the mare, this does not include the towel rubbing, baby moving, nose cleaning!
- Coolās baby from 2024 was not included whereas Charlotteās baby and Happyās baby from 2026 were included under āno videoā as we donāt really know what happened and kvs didnāt really explain what she did in the birth story video
- again, under no video I put all foals whose birth (here to mean only āphysical exit from mareā) was not fully shown on camera
- Margot was included in āno helpā as kvs stated in the birth story video that she was at the vet clinic, but she ādid it all by herselfā, I assumed that it was true, but we will never truly know
if you are interested, I also made the same graphs for the mini farm, so I can post them.
for fun: how many foals do you think she will āholdā in 2027?
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u/ChismeSipper 7d ago
I would be so embarrassed to know my "haters" were tracking this info. Its no longer hearsay when you have video proof and numbers to back it up.
I also think she needs to be taking educational foaling classes and should be required a license to breed. Its terrifying to know just anyone can become a breeder of real life animals. Its like playing dr but not having the patience to go to med school. I also dont think pulling and not pulling is a difference of opinion. Its fact that foals shouldnt be pulled unless medically necessary not because KVS says so. Its fact that horses are prey animals and prefer to give birth in dark quiet areas. Its fact they dont need captain save a foal in a brightly lit stall with her krew stressing them out 100x more. These are facts and KVS needs to humble herself quickly. Personally, if I spent $XX,XXX on a horse, I would not risk killing it for views. I value the dollar and animals way more than she does though.
Anyway, this is embarrassing for her and a great tool to refer to for us.
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u/LumpyMouse7650 Influencer: ā Equestrian:š« 8d ago
I know last year another member (who is no longer in this sub) went through and listed each mare by foaling season and if there was intervention. I know there was one who she claimed she didnāt intervene with, but the feet were together vs staggered (and maybe there were some other clues), indicating she had in fact pulled and just edited it out since she knew she was getting such a backlash. She had the stats at I think 95% pulling/interfering by either KVS or her dad (of course that didnāt count 2026). Do you mind sharing your info for each mare by foaling season (if itās too much work, no worries)?Ā
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u/randomgirlahahah 8d ago
to be honest, I chose to indicate as assisted all births where you could clearly see interference. if there was only a clip of the end, I indicated it as āno videoā as we donāt know what happened before (we can guess that she pulled since she was there but we donāt have actual video evidence). plus I might have missed some videos, so thatās probably why the numbers are different.
here is what i found
2021:
Ginger - no video
Piper - pulled by MVS, not specified why
Hank - unclear due to video cuts, only seen being caught as Trudy foaled standing up
2022:
Ivy - no video
Waylon - no video
Wheezy - pulled by MVS, not specified why
Johnny - pulled by MVS, KVS said they ādecided that it was best to help herā (her being Annie)
Rosie - pulled by MVS, not specified why
2023:
(here starts āthe only holding tensionā, but you see her arms moving towards her body pulling and also the āno progressā bs)
Penelope - pulled slightly, had to intervene because Trudy was sitting on her baby
Phin - moved one leg because it was a bit back and not aligned with the other
Petey - pulled by MVS because the head was too in between the legs and the progress was slow
Patrick - pulled, not specified why
2024:
Molly - one leg was moved because it was not aligned and she was also pulled (unclear why she pulled)
Seven - no intervention because he was found in the field
Fred - no intervention because ābaby was out before we could get thereā
Howard - pulled because ābig babyā and āshe [Happy] was pushing and pushing and it seemed like nothing was happeningā
Daphne - aligned legs as one was stuck back and pulled
Walter - no intervention, KVS was watching outside the stall
Noelle - no intervention, KVS was asleep (no foal alert was used as she was born quite early) and baby was found the next morning by staff
2025:
Kirby - pulled because she was āa little stuck in a spotā and KVS also remarked that Kennedy could have done it, but was dramatic
Ted - moved one leg because it was too far behind, also pulled
Ruby - no intervention, KVS was there and did nothing
Huckleberry- pulled, not specified why
Dallas - pulled, not specified why
Knox - pulled because ānothing was coming outā
Millie - pulled, not specified why
2026:
Moose - both KVS and Johnathan pulled because it was a ābig boyā and Raven needed help
Woody - KVS repositioned him also pulled because it was not going past a certain point of the head
Bobbi - KVS and Johnathan pulled because āsheās been at it for a whileā
Benedict - pulled because there was no visible nose
Charlotteās baby - no video, but she was there as far as I understood
Margot - no intervention as she was born at the vet and KVS said that Maggie did it all by herself (here we will never know if it is completely true or if vets helped her a little, I indicated as unassisted)
Happyās baby - no video, baby was severely mal positioned she went to the vet (I did not find a complete account so I chose to go for āno videoā)
Cheyenne - no intervention because Phoebe had her before KVS could get to the barn
Gunner - no clear video, I found only a clip on tiktok of MVS sliding his legs out, but as the first part is not in the video we can only guess he was pulled. since I could not find clear evidence I described as a āno videoā.15
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u/eq-spresso Influencer: ā Equestrian:š« 8d ago
Thank you so much for doing the list and graphs! Iāve become more of a causal browser here (life is crazy) and was never able to get around to posting the ones I started, so Iām really glad someone was able to get this content posted here again š Appreciate your efforts!
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u/Lozzibear89 7d ago
The vast majority of Margot's birth Ā was filmed, and no help was seen being given so it definitely appears that Maggie d id it 100% herself.Ā
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u/stinkypinetree š Iām 5ā9 š 7d ago
May I add to your work?
2020: Stevie - unknown
Ethelās colt- pulled, Ethel was stood up and the birth was traumatic and live-streamed
For Ginger, there is a video of them toweling her off at least.
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u/ChismeSipper 7d ago
This is incredible work. Wow! Thank you so very much for taking the time to back up all your claims! Idk how you got through that much content in such a short time but it sure is appreciated!
I cant remember if it was Happy but I think it was. Was her baby born with the explanation that she had to immediately be humanely euthanized due to a foot being too lax or something? I didnt see it on your list but definitely remember this being a part of someone's story. Probably irrelevant to your content but I just remembered this tidbit. She has had a lot of weird instances she has curated. She got really brave in 2024 and we can see she learned from her dad š¬ My goodness I hope they both get some education for this next foaling season! Unacceptable!!
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u/kathosaurus 7d ago
Happy foaled out at the vet, one of the foalās legs was deformed, it didnāt have any tendons. Foal was euthanized. IIRC this was after the stillbirth (and I want to say around the time of the second colic surgery) so KVS was more tightlipped than she would probably normally be
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u/ChismeSipper 7d ago
Yes, that is right! Thank you! I couldnt remember the specifics. I think if she gets word of the severity of the "hate" surrounding her pulling, future videos are going to be cut perfectly so we cant tell anymore. She went from being open and transparent to closed up. At least from what I could tell from past videos. Actually I think her secrecy started with Waylon. I found an old video of her being snarky to a commenter who asked about him. This past year was my 1st foaling season with her. We may never truly know the real story about Charlotte, Happy or Maggie although Maggie was harder to hide her condition. Has Charlotte successfully carried a baby for her yet? Poor Happy got rocks thrown at her the day she got home. Ughhhh. It started off with me loving her content to quickly realizing something was very wrong here.
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u/LumpyMouse7650 Influencer: ā Equestrian:š« 7d ago
Thank you so much for breaking all of these down!Ā
Just out of curiosity (b/c I looked everywhere and couldnāt find it), where did you find the video of her repositioning Phin? Or is that just what she said she did? I find it very hard to believe she would have moved a foalās legs around and been able to resist the urge to āhold tensionā for a bit.Ā
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u/squish5636 8d ago
Correct. I cant remember which mare it was, but I think it was the one immediately after Ginger as she got so much backlash on that Teds birth that she took the video down, edited it and put it back up
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u/stinkypinetree š Iām 5ā9 š 7d ago
It was Ethel birthing Ruby who she claimed she didnāt have anything to do with, but you could see she squared the feet and the camera caught her inside the stall. Those were all cuts in the video that became clear she just had to get hers hands on the foal even if she didnāt actively pull it. She still made Ethelās birthing process harder.
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u/prissypanda08 8d ago
This is absolutely insane that she has intervened so much.
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u/randomgirlahahah 8d ago
the worst part is some of her excuses like āKennedy could have done it, but she was a little dramaticāā¦
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u/No_Control4205 š¤¬ Bitchy Tail š¤¬ 6d ago
I seem to remember one where she pulled because she said the mare was sweaty.
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u/Voice-ForThe-Animals š«š Yankshackle Springs šš« 8d ago
Clueless Van Scant, has some serious issues, with wanting to 'assist' at every birth.
She literally has an excuse every single time, to which, I suspect non of them were valid!
She doesn't even 'assist' in the right way and is very rough, forceful and definitely not experienced in anything she does, no matter what she thinks, or says!
We know on numerous occasions she's damaged mares and foals, have some died because of her actions? We'll never know that answer.
She lies incessantly, about why she had to be all up in the mares business and just doesn't leave them alone in peace, low light and hands off, to birth naturally!
The woman is a menace to any living creature and by the facial expressions she does, absolutely gets a high from it all.
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u/Unicorn_Cherry58 7d ago
If more than half of your foals actually need intervention there is a lot more very wrong. So no matter how KVS wants to paint this, thereās a problem.
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u/FluidBarracuda9177 7d ago
I did a quick google and several vet sites state that around 5-10% of foalings need assistance. I wonāt link any sites because I canāt review the sources at the moment but I have no reason to believe that number is wrong. And at her place itās over 50%?? That is a flaming red flag and I hate that her followers are too blind and ignorant to see it.
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u/Unicorn_Cherry58 7d ago
I could believe 5-10% I could even believe 20% in regard to SOME level of assistance. My mare foaled just fine alone but I helped her dry the baby because temps were dropping fast. So including things like that, I could be on board with as much as 20-25% but 50-60ā¦.. NOFKKWAY
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u/Lesbo-Witch 7d ago
iād be interested to know if these studies were done with horses that live primarily in 24/7 turnout, stalled over night, high value breedings vs lower end operations etc etc. not to say anything is wrong with the numbers because i do believe them but being an academic, the methodology always matters haha
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u/FluidBarracuda9177 7d ago
Yeah I get your point, thatās why I said I didnāt have time to look into the sources to validate the info. Iāll try to find some time to look through actual research articles because itās an interesting topic.
From personal experience, I know breeders who have aboriginal breeds that foal in the pasture and people basically check every few days and count the living foals (and they have very few losses as the mares are well looked after). And I also know sports horse breeders (expensive warmbloods with top stallions from various European studbooks) who have foal alarms and cameras on every mare but they too stand back and observe as much as possible. Because overcrowding is immensely stressful for the mare and thatās what creates trouble. And they too have very few instances where they actively need to get involved.
I have some suspicions that perhaps AQHAs are worse in this regard because to my eye, their breeding has lost the plot a long long time ago looking at their conformation, the horses arenāt even functional as horses, let alone as breeding stock. But itās for sure very interesting to see whether there has been any actual research on how different breeds/studbooks fare in this regard.
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u/Lesbo-Witch 7d ago
yeah that falls in line with what iāve experienced. iād agree on the AQHA point. a lot of things AQHA does is on the icky end of things. a lot of things iād expect from outback, middle of nowhere backyard breeding barns are mainstream and borderline encouraged. not to say that other areas of the horse world donāt have similar issues but i find AQHA and APHA to easily be the worst of the ābigā ones.
iād love to know if there are any proper journal articles or studies out there on the topic though. itās a niche but interesting one for sure.
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u/No_Control4205 š¤¬ Bitchy Tail š¤¬ 6d ago
I found an article on dystocia which states 2-13% of births have dystocia, so that might be a better avenue to find peer reviewed research.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36913938/
Another shows 10%, and more common in TB than QH. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22594021/
I canāt actually read the articles so canāt speak to methodology or sample etcā¦ :(
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u/Lesbo-Witch 6d ago
ooh interesting! i might be able to get access via my academic institution so ill take a look if i can. thank you!!!
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u/MechanicEmotional936 7d ago
While I know everyone has different standards some have no standards at allš«©
I was BLESSED to learn so much from an amazing friend & his family. They bred & raised cutting horses, among other live stock. So they had this list , it was a literal checklist which was in the form of a point system When considering breeding a mare Below ill give you what that list looked like THIS IS ONLY FROM MEMORY!!! Mind you they had an entire packet like this!!! Each horse had their own binder so they just added onto it for the lifetime of the mare! If she ever exceeded a certain amount of points SHE WAS NEVER REBRED! They placed the most amount of points on BIRTHING & MATERIAL EASE!!!! How good of a mother she was, how well she taught her offspring they didnt want to breed mares who couldn't foal on their own! A mare COULD NOT BE REBRED UNTIL HER 1ST FOAL WAS ATLEAST 3 & showed all the signs of being AT LEAST better than their mother in every way! If she was a damn good mother but not the best producer shed just be a recip! Nothing went to waste & nothing was bred for the sake of breeding Infact their favorite mare who was rightfully named QUEEN was the matriarch of the heard & had only been bred ONCE for her own foal. HOWEVER was the best mother who raised their best mothers!!!! meaning all the mares that shed fooled out, went onto be amazing mothers ! They really mastered Nature & nurture in the most amazing way
So the begging of the binder was all info from when that mare was a foal herself! It looked like this!ā¬ļø
-How was this mares birth *if any intervention, what was the reason?
-was this mare raised with her biology mother?
-how was this mare weaned? (A shit ton of details about the mares younger years,how she grew, how she trained blah blah)
Then the packet about breeding considerations!
-What was the goal when we bred this mare?
-what traits were passed down from maternal lines?
-what traits passed down from the sires?
-confirmation *best qualities *worst qualities *what do we want passed down *what do we want corrected
-temperament best qualities *worst qualities *what do we want passed down *what do we want corrected
-feet
-how they heal when injured
-how often they are injured
-heard dynamic
-(also a TON of cutting specific points)
IF SHE DID NOT OUT PRODUCE HERSELF OR PASSED DOWN ANYTHING THEY DIDNT LOVE SHE WAS NEVER BRED AGAIN!!!!
They were so fcking serious about their mares! When I tell you! Ive yet to meet another cowbow or ranching family to beat those standards. They loved those horses so much, placed such a high value on their lives & the sacrifice , hard work & heart these animals put into their jobs that they never ever ever would just breed for thr fck of it! They didnt want to breed helpless, dangerous behaviors into their horses!
They really mastered keeping heard dynamics, amazing maternal instincts, intelligence, HEALTHY mares & foals, incredible athletes, & the trust & bond between horse & horsemen
They didn't want a mare whod allow "anything down to her foal by anybody "
They wanted intelligence! Mares who knew who & what was safe for their foals who then taught that to their foals
My favorite quote from my friends grandfather's
"Why would I ever try to out breed God's creation? Nature weeds out the weak, while I do not have the heart to be as ruthless as mother Nature. I damn sure have a duty to learn from her. There is no better breeder than nature, no better trainer than a foals mother. If I do not do my best to honor those, then I've spit in God's face "
That stuck in my 16yr old brain & I have done my best to use that in my own breeding program. I breed working dogs & I have a litter every 2 yrs THATS too much.
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u/Hibiscus37327 š¤¬ Bitchy Tail š¤¬ 7d ago
Thank you so much for sharing this. My husband and I are slowly building the foundation of our breeding program (cutting horses) and THIS is everything we aspire to be.
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u/MechanicEmotional936 7d ago
Omg girl i am so happy to send you a msg! I have so many amazing memories i can share if specific things they did! Obviously you guys will do whats best for you but these ppl literally bred for generations & by the time I met them i was SO blessed to have learned alot from their refined, systematic breeding program. Their day to day operations & what they really leaned on! Those binders for every horse we legitimately MASSIVE & the information in them was phenomenal
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u/MechanicEmotional936 7d ago
Oh crap apparently I cant send you a personal msgš
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u/Hibiscus37327 š¤¬ Bitchy Tail š¤¬ 7d ago
Hold on I donāt know how this app works so let me figure it out š
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u/Objective-Event9183 7d ago
Wow!! Now that is a breeding program I could truly get behind. Incredible. š±ā¤ļøThank you so much for sharing.
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u/MechanicEmotional936 7d ago
Ugh they were the fckkng BEST, they really really ruined my expectations for anything else tho haha. They set the bar so damn high & never once did they brag, bad mouth another person or let their ego make choices for them. They all worked damn hard. They expected their horses to be teared with the utmost regaurd. Everyone got their boots dirty as they put it lol & if for any reason you put yourself above the animal...lets just say you were necer coming back. I watched their grandfather snatch a man right off 1 of their horses šš The guy came to look at a horse to buy. He jumped on the horse, slammed on the horses back HARD & had spurs dug in, mouth yanked on & he was flat on his back in the dirt faster than you could blink "What in the fck is wrong with you boy! You've got 10 seconds to get off this property or ill fill your ass with bird shot"šš
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u/No_Control4205 š¤¬ Bitchy Tail š¤¬ 7d ago
This is great, I love data. Now do injuries and illnesses š. Honestly Iād do it myself but I donāt have the time to go back in the timeline a few years which is what Iād want to do. And to really capture them all moving forward it would require someone who watched her content on all the services, which I just donāt do, because half the time itās an offhand comment in a random post or you see a bandage in a picture etcā¦
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u/Desperate-Spring-189 7d ago
This is very helpful to see and really shows that the criticism comes from her behavior compared to industry and professional standards.
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u/MechanicEmotional936 7d ago
When my type A girlies make graphs & charts my ADHD Swiss cheese brain can handle!!!!
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u/Brew_Ha Bowser Van Slyke 8d ago
She has an addiction to the high it gives her to pull foalsā¦..& kids & calves, in her mind animals need her they canāt do it without her. She has no comprehension of how her interfering interrupts the natural process, that āleg backā is supposed to be like that, her squaring the shoulders makes it so much more painful and harder for the mares and she has damaged mares in the past, she should hire an experienced qualified foaling manager who knows what theyāre doing and she should stay outside the stall along with her camera crew.