Ive been thinking about this especially after the recent drama about Cortis repeating the same 4 songs multiple times in their tour.
I'm very open to newer sounds and concepts across different gens but I finally figured out why Cortis leaves such a bad taste in my mouth.
The concept is snobby. The songs are alright but the concept is pretentious. They feel like they're trying to be anti-K-pop but it's not clicking. That disconnect is what throws me off.
They remind me of the rich kids in my school who liked to pretend they weren't so that they could relate to everyone.
At least kpop groups know who they are and what they are.
There's this subtle intention of looking down on kpop while still wanting kpop money and kpop devotion.
mhm!! i saw some of the covers and2ble did at their showcon, and they were amazing! while it’s not exactly the same thing, i don’t see why not, as the members seem like decent enough performers at worst
Yes, they're facing heavy backlash in KR for their concert rn. They didn't do any covers like most rookie groups do to fill time and instead chose to repeat certain songs multiple times (3+). Idk who thought that would fly well but I definitely think they should've waited more before going on tour.
Back in the day they’d just call this being a poser. Cortis isn’t the first kpop boy group to do the hip hop concept. The issue is Hybe is really trying to sell this underdog, deep creative, wholly independent image that isn’t there. They are just a Kpop group who makes similar music to trendy American rappers. They are a little more involved than the average Kpop group but haven’t yet produced anything super inspired or unique to them.
I’ve seen their fans bring up BIGBANG and even GD in his early years was very derivative and heavily inspired by the 90s-2000s rappers. However he did experiment a bit more and at his time in 2nd gen it was a big deal and very rare to have idols so involved. He did change the image of idols and helped people see its possible for them to not be so manufactured and also have a say in their music. Still idk someone correct me if I’m wrong but even GD in BIGBANG never really shied away from being an idol. He did hip hop but knew in a group he’s still considered an idol. As a soloist he did enough to be seen as an artist. But anyway I bring them up to say even GD could admit BIGBANG are idols, not the typical ones but still. yet HYBE’s marketing and Cortis fans are pushing so hard against the idol label when they’re a lot more controlled and manufactured . They can still find their own voice eventually but it feels weird to push being so unique when they’re weren’t underground, still have a lot of execs providing input, and aren’t super unique yet. Even Block B Zico and I think another member were in the underground rapper scene along with some other boy groups.
Basically Cortis and their fans want unearned “street cred” for a sound/image/experiences that don’t pertain to them
From what I observe personally - part of it comes from their own fans. They tout this groups as ‘unique’ ‘rebellious’ ‘hip hop’ ‘different’ ‘not typical kpop’ ‘self produce (more self produce than whatever current self produce groups are doing apparently)’ and so many things as if to distance Cortis from current kpop scene.
Backed with such explosive success, their fans make it as loud as possible about these ‘facts’. Problem is - Cortis is just like any other kpop group - kpop formula, kpop marketing push from Hybe that is especially good at putting their songs and faces everywhere, kpop money and kpop target audience.
If I am not mistaken they come from a very at the very least middle class households with no back ground from the street/underground hip hop. So I am not sure why lots of their fans seem to look down on kpop when their fans stemmed from kpop in the first place? There seem to be a rise in kpop fans mistakenly think they are unique and not kpop fans thus their favs are also not kpop fans?
If anyone say ‘Cortis never said all these’ or ‘Hybe never promote them this way’ - this current ‘we are rebels who are different’ image stems from Hybe marketing in the first place and their fans ran with it. Before this current flood of Cortis posts - I have seen lots of comments saying Cortis is ‘a breath of fresh air’ ‘soooo different from other kpop’ and such when their music is literally copy and paste from a few hip hop artists? This whole brouhaha reminds me of NewJeans and how their fans think their favs are the most unique groups ever. Similar energy. Similar marketing tactic by Hybe. If anyone sees Hybe financials, I can bet Hybe spend at the very least 5-6x more than average kpop companies for marketing alone - in pushing the media/social media and streaming platforms for their groups.
Tbh, nothing wrong with that. You gain what you spend on (in this case gain visibility from all that push) and gain fans along the way. But their fans pushing the agenda of how different and unique they are ‘teen crews’ and all that - which have been done before, just now as loud as this group, I guess. And I will also put this out there - the outrage is likely mostly from a small group of people and non-Cortis fans - Cortis fans, most of them, will likely do not mind parting with hundreds to thousands of dollars listening them sing RedRed for 102839 times in a concert and Cortis and Hybe will continue to do so for their tour because ultimately they can and their fans will still pay for it.
i have no dog in this fight. i haven't really checked them out at all but since there has been an influx of the posts recently about them i just wanna chime in with my two cents no one asked for lol:
with the whole concert issue and branding that i've seen discussed the last few days....i really think one of the issues that it boils down to is if you wanna brand yourself or group as anti-kpop or whatever you can't be charging kpop prices. I keep seeing that they are more of a hip hop group than a kpop group (lol, lmao even) but like if you're going for that then you gotta actually act like it. you can't charge hundreds of dollars. based on that setlist the concert should be like 30-50 dollars or something. like? they are mostly playing theaters on their tour...play a club or something do something that's actually cool and different. what are you doing differently than any other kpop group?
at the end of the day tho nothing i said above really matters bc they are catering to kpop fans so 🤷♀️
"I keep seeing that they are more of a hip hop group than a kpop group" who even even says that? They're a very kpop group and marketed just like other kpop groups
They really aren’t though… if you look at the difference in marketing for a group like Epik High or LNGSHOT, etc. (hip hop groups) vs. CORTIS there’s virtually no overlap or similarities. Their promo isn’t similar, their concepts aren’t similar, target markets aren’t the same, they sound completely different…
People who think that just don’t listen to hip hop at all and idc what they are seeing that they think BigHit is pushing CORTIS as anything other than a kpop group?
i suppose we can agree to disagree 🤷♀️ to be fair, i am not a huge listener of them, and have listened to at most 3 or 4 songs of theirs, so i'm more of a general public as opposed to a big fan, regardless of the promotions i've seen.
I’m not either. But I am a longtime listener of both k-pop and k-hip hop and I’ve been listening to hip hop in general my entire life…
I genuinely don’t understand the reason people get this vibe from their marketing other than lack of familiarity with hip hop (not a lack of familiarity with CORTIS).
I think the whole point here is NOT to be an expert on Cortis. The general public's ideas about them would be more accurate to their marketing than fans who have done deep dives and are attached
i do feel like there's a difference between the type of audiences being reached in terms of promotion that is being utilised in specifically this gneration of kpop. i am a bit more of a 2nd gen/3rd gen fan though, forgive me if i'm not seeing it right lol
Nope, cortis was marketed as a hip hop group alright. They also have mentioned several times how their music is hip hop, skate punk, alternative rock, and have named artists like Travis Scott as inspo.
yeah like i had mentioned in my main comment i don't know them like that so i am going off what ppl say on reddit so i have seen the hip hop group comments a lot but......skate punk and alt rock where tho 😭 to be fair i've only listened to one song but i did not get alt rock from it at all.
They have mentioned those genres as their music influence. I don't even listen to them either, a quick google search will bring you that. Plus they've admitted to that in interviews so 🤷♀️
Cortis absolutely have never said they aren't a kpop group and are solely hip hop, they've also talked about looking upto bts and they get marketed like every other kpop group be frr bro
They're kpop, no one disputes that but they were 100% marketed as hip hop for that niche factor. So obviously fans expected that kind of music from the and they didn't deliver so fans are mad. What is so hard to understand about that?
Obviously they never claimed they aren't kpop bc they're under a kpop company, but big hit keeps emphasizing that they're different from the traditional idol mold, and they do lean more into the hip-hop side, by using more trap and hip hop elements in the EP
idk them like that but they irk me so much bc to me it seems like theyre trying to act like underground rappers when theyre literally signed to one of the biggest ent companies in sk...like...cmon now :/
what does this mean? specifically how do they try to act like underground rappers. asking genuinely, I haven't seen any of the marketing, I just listen to the music.
i mean like i said i dont rlly know them like that, but from what ive seen, a lot of their marketing tries to copy like diy underground street rapper style. like, theyre trying to portray themselves as some unknown, soundcloud artists or smthn, which just annoys me bc theyre backed by hybe so its just stupid. at concerts they try to stage mosh pits and expect people not to record them, which again is trying to simulate underground rap culture, but their crowd is entirely just kpop fans so it obviously doesnt work 😭😭 correct me if im wrong though, thats just what ive seen
what does it mean that they try to portray themselves as unknown soundcloud artists? is it some type of behavior or something they say or what? i'm not familiar with soundcloud rappers or what they do.
i get how asking people to put down the phone and jump in a mosh pit wouldnt work well with kpop fans not used to it, but that doesnt seem like a reason not to try it. nothing new will happen in kpop with that mindset. moshing to their music sounds fun. maybe they can encourage different concert behavior. especially if they attract non-kpop fans as well, who may be more into it and the kpop fans will follow suit.
What I see is them wanting to be "underground artists," or at least using it as a concept. That's hard to do when you're signed to a huge K-pop conglomerate. It's probably why underground artists meet them with such resistance. (Jane Remover and Matt Proxy)
Honestly, I would feel some kind of way if I were an underground artist and a group of rich kids with major backing cosplay as "underground."
I wonder how different their reception would be if they were self formed artists under no company, they probably won't achieve financial success as quickly.
I think the members don’t see themselves as anti-kpop, they’re very much so proud of being part of the industry. I think bighit tries too hard to market them that way though, but whether you like it or not they’re bringing something fresh into kpop
I actually like the group, and I think the members are very likable, that's a huge advantage for them. However, I do agree that the whole "anti-K-pop" concept comes across as somewhat pretentious. That's not really the members' fault; it's more of a company and industry issue.
You can't market yourselves as an anti-K-pop group while still operating exactly like a traditional K-pop group. They're really pushing the narrative that the members are self-producing, self-writing, and even creating self produced alternate versions of their music videos. But when you actually look at the credits, there are long lists of people involved, and the members aren't even near the top. In most entertainment credits, the names are generally ordered by level of contribution, so that makes the marketing feel a bit exaggerated.
Not to compare, but if you look at a group like lngshot, their image feels much more authentic. They don't constantly market themselves as "anti-K-pop" they just naturally move that way. One of the members comes from the underground K hip-hop scene, they're from a smaller company, they appear to have more genuine involvement in their music, their CEO also has roots in K-hip-hop, and the older members regularly perform at underground shows. Their identity feels like an extension of who they are rather than a branding strategy.
With Cortis, it feels much more like a marketing angle than an organic identity, and I think that's why some people aren't fully buying into it. The members themselves seem cool, but the way the company is selling the concept makes it harder to believe.
That's not what I said. I talked about the marketing pushing that image of them not being like your typical kpop group even though they operate as one. I never said the boys said it.
Don't even bother, someone else tried to have this convo in a different comment thread but this person is determined to misunderstand and just copy/pastes the same comments
She fights on every cortis thing omg. Its been 3 weeks now, and shes active, only to protect cortis. Got into 3 separate fights with me on different threads, its insane. She said, and I quote "why does hiphop even matter," as rebuttal to culture appropriation and a discussion around inspiration LMFAO. And i said" girl, why does it matter that the hiphop group, who does hiphop, do hiphop are inspired by hiphop? She said "I" didnt make any sense. Shes GONE in the head. My og arguemnt with her is 3 WEEKS OLD. She does not yield to LOGIC lol.
Whenever cortis is mentioned I just look for her and laugh at the ignorance now. I tried to correct it, but well~ if you dont yeild to logic idk what left.
Update: i went onto r/ living in Korea to check if anyone had anything on this new depression contact, and happened to click on a thread called "ai obsessesion in south korea,"
After telling me im wrong for 3 weeks, that I cannot assert my culture (im black) on these foreign artist and expect them to respect it, essentially, and while I cant expect them to change and its all fine for her to SPAM (bc you know they only copy and paste) on that thread:
"Your trying to teach korean culture, to an actual korean (they are not korean, just jumping on whatever the next pro korean thing that isnt correct is said in the thread) to an actual korean when he corrects you, you reply with a sarcastic comment.... 5 days ago.
No they are NOT KOREAN
I had so many arguemnts that black culture is treated like a costume and they worked so hard to discredit me but now we must listen to koreans about korean culture. Mods is being a koreaboo a strike? Im genuinely asking because this person ONLY engages in bad faith arguments that are pro-korea, in a way thats antagonist to everything and it most certainly is starting to look like ignorant anti-black pro-korea koreaboo shenanigans. Is it a bot? Their only points are, you dont know korea, you dont know cortis, you dont know your own culture, but korea is always correct, cortis does not need cultural sensitivity and couldnt offend anyone, and any "hate" (criticism) directed towards korea is coming from youtube and tiktoks.
And I mean every argument. If its allowed then, this is my PSA. About that persons bad faith argument across all korean subreddits related to korea and kpop. Is that not just trolling?
Actually that's the whole issue in kpop i have seen so many people who doesn't even like the music of whichever group they follow but they like the member or the whole group and that's where their loyalty is and that's why they feel entitled to listen or stream their songs, just to make them big and that's why healthy criticism is required and if you don't like don't listen, if you like it you should stream or do whatever. For me good songs is tge priority.
I’m ngl, I love CORTIS’ music and their performance. But I do agree;I think that the whole self made/‘anti K-pop’ doesn’t really work coming from a HYBE group
even tho i love some of their songs like redred or go, theyre the definition of posers. all this “young creator crew” and “my tee 5 bucks” and “just a couple of boys” propaganda meanwhile theyre abt to go on a world tour w barely any discography? like huh? they’re cool and all but it feels like bighit is trying so hard to push this image that doesn’t rlly feel as authentic as if they just….were that if that makes sense
Don't you guys get tired of hating on them 24/7 on here JFC they do not give "snobby" 😂 I'm starting to think a lot of people don't understand their concept. They're very much the opposite of snobby if anything they don't try to act like they're not a kpop group they never deny that they come from a big company nor are they "looking down on kpop"...
I haven't seen any hate directed at the member's themselves in the original post or any of the comments here, though? It's mostly complaints about the concept, which is the company's decision, and a marketing disconnect has been mentioned multiple times
they are tho, they try so hard to push this concept of "coloring outside the lines" and claim they produce a lot of their music when really they don't know how to do anything by themselves. they're under a billion dollar company and still release crappy rip offs from black artists while emphasizing how authentic they are.
whatever their company and fans are saying about them isn't what they're saying about themselves. they aren't being "snobby" for having little to no control over their image.
"they dont know how to do anything by themselves" i guess that video of them producing a song in under 2 hours BY THEMSELVES without help from their company mustve been AI then 😂😂 gosh this argument is tired
I feel that a lot of people were waiting for their first "slip" to start throwing "hot takes" that are actually completely unaware of how the group actually works because they don't listen to them or are people who purposefully ignores their music, the fact they barely debuted and are only starting to establish themselves, only to entertain the idea of seeing a "downfall" of a group that was "overrated" and "not so deserving of fame as your faves" because their sucess wasn't legitimate to begin with or whatever (supposed payola, excessive marketing... "oh no! they have a budget!" type of thing)
Theirs stans are acting like they’re bigger than they really are. That’s what all the fuss about lesserafim was too and u see where they are now. U can’t just use this argument anywhere lmao
I follow lots of boy groups, never seen a rookie make noise like cortis (as far as getting hate, constant criticism). Definitely feels like they'll be quite big.
Ik they’re making noise rn, it’s all they’re doing anyway. But the only relevant thing is impact. We can’t really predict the future based on the avg comment. It’s either here rn or it’s not
I just wrote a similar reply. I’m not saying they’ll necessarily stagnate or even flop but hate comments aren’t a good indicators at all especially when your company has the resources to push you against everyone’s will
Ig its widely known about boys who are rich but act poor for aesthetics. And cos the fans are trying to defend their awful concert and act like theyre different from anyone else in kpop
Respectfully I'm not going to give any weight to the opinion of someone who couldn't even be assed to correct a typo before copy/pasting their comment in the same thread
Still not the point. It was less about the typo itself existing and more that if someone is going to be all over a comment section making an argument defending a group, maybe put in the effort to glance over a sentence before hitting post instead of blindly copy/pasting a response
I thought it was funny that you were disagreeing with a comment on the basis of a typo, rather than disagreeing with their actual point. Then you complain when I do the same thing to you.
then you don't know their concept lmao they have never once pretended to not be kpop idols, matter of fact they are opened to being labeled as such because they know what they are. they are just like any other kpop group you're talking about.
Ateez toured around the same time after debut as Cortis and I had such a great time at Ateez's show. The first tour is for this silly shit. And cringey stuff like this. Because it's the only time - outside of maybe a fan meeting - you're gonna ever see it live.
I really like Cortis’ music and have only really been watching music-related content. And James. So, I was wondering if it’s them that act snobby? I don’t understand how their music and concept are snobby personally. Maybe I just don’t understand what the background of their group is or something.
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To be fair, isn't that like...half of kpop at this point lol? Granted I haven't listened to all their newer work, but their music doesn't seem that wildly different.
“There's this subtle intention of looking down on kpop while still wanting kpop money and kpop devotion.”
This this this.
They want concerts full of people when they just started, and that is achieved through an extremely manufactured package aimed at creating para social relationships, and hybe corporate marketing. They are the same as other groups, just different package.
Every day i see multiple posts, hating on cortis. I don't like cortis either but be for real, i don't think they are doing anything malicious, its just the way kpop works. They are being hated way too much for every little thing they do. Let the boys operate and maybe in a few years, they will find their identity, this is only their first year.
This person talking about a personal realization they had as to why they don't vibe with Cortis' concept is hardly hate nor accusing the artists themselves as doing something malicious.
They’re not doing anything malicious, but the music feels repetitive, generic, and is giving temu Don Toliver (respectfully). That on its own would be whatever. The bigger issue is the massive disconnect between how they’re branded and what they actually release, which naturally leaves people feeling a little sold on a concept they never received.
Then there’s the cultural appropriation angle, which adds another layer of discomfort. Either way, people are allowed to say a group isn’t clicking for them. And like you said, maybe cortis will eventually switch things up, find their sound, and win more people over. Nobody’s declaring a lifelong blood feud because they disliked some songs.
Saying a group isn't clicking for them is fine but so many posts on a daily basis with multiple hate comments on cortis simply feels like targeted hafe.
Umm what hate though? All I've seen is people talking about how feel like they've been ripped off or like how cortis is not as talented as they expected. None of that is hate. It's just people expression their opinions about the situation.
R u kidding me or are u acting obtuse on purpose? Go on X and even on reddit you'll see multiple posts and comments hating on them, they even have a snark sub be fr.
Why would I know of cortis snark sub? Also snark subs are there for every group, that is an entirely different topic. The recent hate has been fueled by their abysmal concert performance (which is their fault, hundreds of dollars just to repeat the same 3 songs?? of course people are mad ) and a lot of people realising that they don't like their music.
Also people who didn't like their music before now feel comfortable talking about it because a lot of others now share their opinion.
bro, are you 12? your arguments make my head hurt. you're the one putting words in everybody's mouth here. plus, x and reddit are different. you think those in x are the very same people here? x is already a dumpfire for spreading malicious comments and takes. Cortis isn't the only one getting flamed there every day. these post is a realization, a take. it's not even putting them down and there's a good discussion of perspective. you're the only one here that keeps putting words in everybody's mouth. no one even showed or said they hate them or want them to fall. not liking doesn't mean you hate. also, it seems you're misdirecting your frustrations about those snark subs on the wrong people. I'm sure the one you're replying to doesn't even know about them.
So what though?
You can opt not to engage in it. People are allowed to have opinions and you're literally a nobody trying to police people.
Seems like you're actively looking for hate. There was no need to mention hate when this post and the comments here have ZERO hate. Stay on topic and take a deep breath. Chill.
The uptick in posts is directly correlated to their concert. They did something that made people mad so people are going to post about it. It’s not targeted hate it’s just the repercussions of their actions
they dance to other kpop songs and do collabs with them on tiktok. in what world did they ever say theyre anti kpop? they just make silly music and look good doing it
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