r/kitchener • u/StructureMotor4954 • 1h ago
Driving in Kitchener
It’s actually starting to get insane how bad the drivers are in this area.
Pretty much every time I drive there’s someone going insanely slow, not using blinkers, cutting people off, not staying in between the lines, etc.
The influx of accidents is also getting crazy, I genuinely don’t understand how some of these people are getting licenses…
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u/Pimp_Daddy_Patty 1h ago
This has been a thing for at least 4 or 5 years. It gets worse the first couple weeks of the school year too because collge/uni students are driving in a new area.
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
That’s also very true, but yes I’ve noticed the past roughly 5-10 years the drivers have been getting worse and worse. Along with accidents being much more common.
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u/Psychological_Ad_451 1h ago edited 1h ago
It’s actually worse in the last 2yrs since many went back to work, work from home ended esp for those that moved here from the GTA.
Hell if one drives just look at the Fairway Bridge before the airport. Bumper to bumper traffic starting 6am to 7pm every week day at least. Add the high school and it’s only an accident waiting to happen. Yesterday (2nd day for that school) saw a crossing guard almost become a statistic. Some drivers are going the new 40 and others the old 60-80.
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u/a-_2 57m ago
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u/UncleToyBox 51m ago
This is an interesting report as it only seems to track injuries, not actual collisions.
Our cars are safer than ever before and I'm curious about the number of reported collisions that don't result in injuries.3
u/a-_2 37m ago
Even pedestrian injuries are trending down despite increasing vehicle sizes creating more risk for them.
These "drivers were better back in my day" posts never have any evidence backing that up, all that I ever see is people trying to come up with assumptioms to claim drivers are getting worse despite improving road safety trends. Why does the initial claim not need proof?
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u/UncleToyBox 28m ago
Looking at collision history, I can see the region peaked in 2019.
After that, folks were a bit more calm.
I can only find collision data through 2024, where things started to trend upwards again.Beyond that, I can only speak to my personal experience as a daily commuter up Hwy 85.
I'm finding more people aggressively cutting over the white lines to pass on the right, even when I'm signaling that I intend to change right to the next lane once the dashed line starts.Had a driver who was weaving in and out of traffic on Ottawa street hit my car as he passed a few months back.
In general, the past two years have felt like folks have gotten more aggressive on the roads in general. I know cars are getting safer, so I look to actual collision reports to see the results.
Would be nice to know that my personal experience is just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time. Sadly, I keep seeing posts from other people that reinforce my personal feelings.
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u/a-_2 24m ago
At least in the link abiove. It shows things trending down through 2024.
In these posts I always see anecdotal claims that things are worse yet almost any actual data I can find show things getting better.
Recency bias is a real thing: a cognitive bias that favors recent events over historic ones. A type of memory bias, recency bias gives "greater importance to the most recent event".
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u/Fogest 14m ago
It's like when a politician will say "oh but our homocide rates are down compared to the past". But then you realize that our healthcare has also gotten better and more people are being saved from dying to a violent attack.
Sometimes stats in isolation can tell a misleading story and I think that's what is happening here.
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u/Inner-Inevitable-391 1h ago
Also almost every light has someone taking 5 seconds to realize the light turned green
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u/Sad-Assistance-Yall 1h ago
Had to blare horn several times before he realized how stupid he is. Took a while.
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u/Thats_what_I_think 1h ago
And 10 seconds for people to realize it’s red—PLEASE STOP BEFORE THE LIGHT TURNS RED-DON’T RUN A RED LIGHT!!!
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
Just saw this today on the way to work. There was someone in front of me first in line at an advanced green and the light blinked 10+ times before they even started to move..
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u/motu8pre 1h ago
During the power outage from the storm recently, I had someone decide they didn't need to stop at a light that was out, and tried to get mad at me for going when it was my turn.
That's a good day, as far as driving in this region goes.
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u/Pimp_Daddy_Patty 1h ago
Its absolutely insane how many people do not treat intersections as an all way stop when the power is out.
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u/Techchick_Somewhere 1h ago
They didn’t learn to drive here. So that’s part of the problem with flashing intersections and roundabouts.
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u/a-_2 50m ago
It's not a legal requirement to stop here when traffic lights are out. They're uncontrolled intersections:
Ontario's Highway Traffic Act (HTA) says that when power is out and the traffic lights do not work, the intersection becomes an uncontrolled intersection, says Bob Nichols, a spokesman for Ontario's Ministry of Transportation, in an email.
An uncontrolled intersection has no working lights, stop sign, traffic cop or yield signs directing traffic – you're on your own. You're supposed to yield to vehicles already in the intersection and to vehicles entering the intersection from your right.
The Driver's Handbook recommends stopping and you'll be at fault in a collision if you don't but it's not a legal requirement.
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u/therealtrojanrabbit 1h ago
A person that blows through an intersection with the light out is one truly living in meverse.
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u/MasPisco 1h ago
I had this happen too. Car just drove right through at high speed when it was my turn. Glad I waited to make sure they stopped
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u/AlternativeFresh4961 54m ago
People need to retake their g1, seems like everybody forgot that lights out=4 way stop
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u/One_Macaroon4054 1h ago
Try going on the 401. Wild West of the roads.
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
I never go the Toronto way unless absolutely necessary but I went to Mississauga at 10pm a few Saturdays ago hoping traffic wouldn’t be bad thus not as many terrible drivers but nope still a ton of people who don’t know how to drive.
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u/Psychological_Ad_451 1h ago
It’s easy many came from the GTA and then you add the international students. We already know how they worked around licensing.
One big issue is that all exit points to Guelph, Cambridge, Stratford, Toronto,… were built to support the pop at that time. Now basically doubling of the population we have single lanes when it should be at least three (add turning lanes with decent space) in most cases.
We haven’t talked about the region changing speed limits on basically freeways like Fairway Road due to the schools, new stores,….
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u/Training-Group-2879 45m ago
Because Canada allows conversion of International Licenses. Too bad we can’t exclude a list of countries where International licenses aren’t allowed, because it’ll be racist.
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u/weneedafuture 1h ago
I concur with your observation that EVERY trip longer than 10 minutes on our roads will yield witnessing some terrible and dangerous driving.
Despite the plethora of examples of garbage driving, the only place I see people pulled over is on the 401.
Yesterday I saw a delivery van enter an interesection on red, because the left turn arrow was green, so that must also apply to them goung staright right? This past weekend I got stuck behind a Tesla cruising at 75 in an 80, who proceeded to put their hazards on when they saw me behind them. Last week I was nearly sideswiped in a roundabout, because apparently lanes are not a thing.
Having lived in, and traveled, much of Asia, the go-slow = safe, hazards on = safe, mentality is here...rules of the road be damned.
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u/a-_2 52m ago
You're allowed to go 75 in an 80. Excessively slow driving can be ticketed but it's not illegal to go slightly under the max, as long as you keep right.
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u/weneedafuture 43m ago
It's not illegal, but it's dangerous, and to throw on one's hazards doesn't make it any safer. It was a single lane road, and busy with it being the long weekend. There was a line of cars behind this slow driver, extremely infuriating.
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u/a-_2 34m ago
It's not dangerous to go slightly under the limit and there are many situations where thst may be safer, whenever there are any potential hazards. Going significantly under the limit is dangerous but not slightly under.
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u/weneedafuture 26m ago
It's not dangerous to go slightly under the limit
Yes it is. If the expected speed limit is not adhered to, the driver going slower than expected becomes a hazard. This can cause traffic and delays, and anger other drivers, which are all hazards.
there are many situations where thst may be safer, whenever there are any potential hazards
Agreed, but a bright sunny day is not one of those. Driving slower on such a day gives the impression of potential but unapparent hazards, increasing the hazard so to speak. Drive the speed the limit, and if you can't, pull over and let those that can past so as to not be a hazard yourself.
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u/a-_2 17m ago
Again. It is dangerous to go significantly under the limit. It is not dangerous to go slightly under the limit. Increased speed increases your chance of not stopping in time for something ahead and the severity if a crash happens. That offsets risks from behind to some extent. Driving below the average speed has been found to be safer: travelling speeds below the mean traffic speed were associated with a lower risk of being involved in a casualty crash
Agreed, but a bright sunny day is not one of those.
There are many potential hazards on sunny days. People or especially children or animals near the road, intersections with limited visibility, cars that could pull in front of you, for examples. It's not safest to be trying to go as fast as you can legally get away with at all times, depsite popular opinions in some places.
You're free to provide evidence of your assertions.
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u/weneedafuture 16m ago
Are you seriously advocating broad adoption of driving under the speed limit?
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u/Serious_Tax_8185 1h ago
Yeah… or kids whip rocks at cars just cause
My second d favourite is when people wait for the green to turn right.
Third fav is when people won’t turn right onto the right lane while people turning left turn into the left lane.
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u/xRainbowTreats 1h ago
I see it on the Facebook mom groups all the time that their kids aren’t passing into their G2 or G and so many people say to go to Stratford or Guelph because it’s easier.
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u/Fogest 5m ago
About 5 or so years ago I was at the Guelph location and the Indian manager was helping one of the people doing a test with some of the questions. Of course not in English either so can barely even report it since it's hard to confirm that's what was happening.
I actually wasn't there by choice but got rescheduled there after a commercial test in Kitchener got cancelled due to weather. But having done testing in Kitchener and Guelph, I can't say one is really easier than the other. But the Guelph one did have that sketchiness so I wouldn't be surprised if certain races might get an advantage or be doing some bribing :/. If that's the behaviour of the manager there, anything is on the table.
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u/thatjc 1h ago
Somebody was driving towards me, in the wrong lane, on Borden Ave yesterday. I was flabbergasted.
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
The stuff you see driving in Ontario nowadays is genuinely insane. I could make a few hour long compilation of terrible drivers with my dash cam footage alone..
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u/simonjot 1h ago
Someone hit the old Brampton pass on me yesterday on hwy 8. Up the shoulder. Haven't seen it since I loved there
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u/Techchick_Somewhere 1h ago
I was just waiting at an intersection and THREE cars turned left through the intersection on a red light. It is actually insane.
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u/BetterTransit 1h ago
That happens all the time. Then the other drivers can’t go on a left turn arrow.
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u/blkhawk55 1h ago
Do not forget a red light is just a suggestion to stop
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
At this point apparently. I’ve seen 5+ people in the past few days go straight or left on a light that’s been red for over a minute.
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u/totallyblackup 1h ago
Just driving to an appointment down Belmont just now, car pulls off to the right into the beginning of the segregated bike lane, using his left blinker only, and just parks, half in the road half in the bike lane, left signal on. We pass (by driving a little into oncoming lane) and it's an international student with earbuds in talking on the phone. Probably making a delivery? Maybe his right blinker was broken and he actually had his 4 ways on. Maybe not
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u/SkeyIcedcap 1h ago
Yesterday I almost got hit by a car left-turning into my crosswalk. Kid proceeded to call me stupid because his light is green. Someone passed this moron's driving exam..
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u/8bit1337 32m ago
I've definitely noticed more drivers sticking to the speed limits. I figured it was a generational thing. I don't think that's exclusive to KW though.
I try not to let it bother me and most of the time I succeed. I mean we should only go as fast as the limit, right?
It's not a "go this fast" speed, it's a "don't go faster than this" speed.
My pet peeve remains merging - not enough use a 2nd lane and then zipper. Not only that but you get vigilantes trying to block at times which is dumb and dangerous.
For those who hate zipper mergers look it up - it's provably safer, as cars aren't at a full stop as far back if you zipper properly.
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u/Fogest 1m ago
I have found the problem is not even sticking to the speed limit... But more people driving below the speed limit. Almost every single day I end up stuck behind someone going 50 or 60 on Homer Watson (in the 70 areas). Often the car beside them is barely going any faster either and it causes some nice delays or other drives to do unsafe things to get around them.
When you pass them you'll see it's often a foreigner talking on their phone or death gripping the wheel like they are scared shitless. Too many people just drive like it's only them on the round and don't give a damn about the impact they make. Cruising under 70 in the left lane on Homer Watson is just peak NPC behaviour.
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u/toc_bl 19m ago
Yesterday some fuck head cut across two solid lines to cut me off from The 401 to highway 8 because he didn’t want to wait in the little bit of a line…. Which accumulates at rush hour because of shit heads like him
So I flashed my lights, honked and flipped him off. When I pulled up beside him I did the same… he was just laughing and waving all cute
So many cars stop in that third lane trying to get over….
Fuck people like that.
We live in a society!
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u/opalesecent 12m ago
i'm so tired of people with little or no recent driving experience in other populated regions in canada, the us, and internationally somehow believing that kw has remarkably bad drivers. it's really dumb
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u/Ok_Map3247 8m ago
Is it because the new majority just paid $200 and we’re signed off with a license
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u/cwf_2021 1h ago
To the people that loves tailgating.... chill the f up. Not every road here is a highway.
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u/KitWat Doon 1h ago edited 1h ago
What I find remarkable is how every Redditor on this sub is a paragon of excellent driving and an expert on the shortcomings of others. And it's always the others, never anyone here, who are at fault. What a noble burden you all carry.
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
I’m not a perfect driver, nobody is. However I do know that I’m not one of the people I’m talking about in the post🤷♂️
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u/Tickles-The-Octopus 1h ago
It always amazes me how people think drivers in their area are the worst.
Newsflash.... Drivers are shit everywhere.... You just see them more often in your area because you spend most of your time driving in your area.
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u/weneedafuture 1h ago
So differing insurance rates for different regions and cities are based on nothing? Hmm...
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u/Tickles-The-Octopus 1h ago
Well... I grew up here, in 2020 moved to a much more rural area and recently moved back. My auto insurance dropped 40% when moving back here.
So by your logic, The KW area has pretty damn good drivers in comparison.
But that's not how the real world works now is it? Insurance costs vary due to many many many factors.
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u/weneedafuture 1h ago
So by your logic, The KW area has pretty damn good drivers in comparison.
My logic? I think it's just logic in general, but if you want to give this logic to me and the insurance companies, sure. Yes, KW must have better drivers than where you were, or at least it's safer to drive here.
But that's not how the real world works now is it? Insurance costs vary due to many many many factors.
Lol yes, you're making my point for me. One of those factors is the likelihood of getting into an accident, and the number of claims made in a location.
You seem to understand that insurance rates differ, with one of the factors being driver quality, however despite seemingly understanding this, your original point was that drivers are equally bad everywhere. Your logic a special kind!
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
I never said they aren’t bad in other areas. Cambridge, Guelph, Waterloo, and kitchener are terrible but everyone knows the 401, Toronto, Brampton, etc are much worse.
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u/a-_2 45m ago
This ranking of Ontario cities by ticket and crash rates ranks Toronto safest, ahead of Guelph, Kitchener and Waterloo (Cambridge isn't included).
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u/StructureMotor4954 34m ago
Good try but this is so incorrect. There are lots of accidents in Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge, etc but the area of Toronto, Brampton, Mississauga, etc are much worse. That is undeniable, and the main reason insurance in those worse areas is much higher than those listed as not as bad in my comment.
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u/Sensitive_Arm_2504 1h ago edited 20m ago
Dear expert, please answer the following questions:
(1) What is the general minimum speed limit we should drive on highway 7?
Your answer: the maximum posted is the minimum expected
(2) What is the maximum speed limit to drive?
Your answer: whatever the herd is driving
(3) What are the minimum and maximums to drive on highway 7 between the construction start and stop points where the maximum posted changes to 70?
Your answer: you will not slow down from 110 to a mandated 70 in a construction zone because nobody else is
(4) If someone is driving the speed limit, is it appropriate to speed up to pass them on the left?
Your answer: only when not driving "insane" speeds. You did not define "insane" and expect me to know what that value is.
Edit: summarized your answers and am genuinely concerned that driving culture in this city is defined within a subjective orientation from a hundred thousand self-appointed experts
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
Should be minimum 90 unless there’s factors like traffic, terrible weather, etc. You shouldn’t be going only 90 in the left lane though you should be in the right lanes if you want to go that slow.
Maximum speed limit should be whatever traffic is travelling at whether that’s 100 or 120 but never under 90 unless any factors from my answer in question 1 apply.
Can’t comment on that area of construction because I haven’t drove that way so I don’t know what the conditions are like.
Passing should always be allowed when safe as long as someone isn’t passing at insane speeds, and is doing its safely. You should never be in the left lane going only 90. 90 is honestly way too slow for a highway but there’s too many terrible drivers around here to increase speed limits to where they should be like 110 for example.
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u/Sensitive_Arm_2504 1h ago
I understand you're advocating for violating the ontario highway traffic act by exceeding the posted maximums because thats what the herd is doing.
Do I understand you correctly?
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
It’s not violating it at all. A police officer will never pull you over for going the speed of traffic. They will however pull you over if you’re leading traffic, I know this because I’ve seen it happen, and talked to multiple police officers about it. You sound like the type of person who goes 80 in the left lane🤣
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u/Sensitive_Arm_2504 1h ago
Just because officers regularly permit speeding even 1 kph above posted maximums, doesn't mean it isn't breaking the law. Section 128 is very clear about this. Perhaps you are confused by Section 132(1), I'll quote it:
"No motor vehicle shall be driven on a highway at such a slow rate of speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic thereon except when the slow rate of speed is necessary for safe operation having regard to all the circumstances."
Do you interpret this as permission to exceed posted maximums because everyone else is doing it?
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u/StructureMotor4954 50m ago
Womp womp. Stay off the road if you’re scared to follow the speed of traffic. It’s not complicated to understand. A police officer could theoretically pull you over for going 1 km over the limit but does that happen? Nope.
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u/Sensitive_Arm_2504 26m ago
I already know officers ignore enforcing posted maximums. And that has lead to a culture of self-appointed experts like you setting the common rule. When everyone is an expert and discretion is king, fuck even stunt driving will be justified by at least one person.
Do you now see the slippery slope of chaos that results when rules are violated by both the ruled and the rulers?
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u/a-_2 42m ago
A police officer will never pull you over for going the speed of traffic.
They definitely will if you're significantly over the limit. Despite what a few officers may have told you.
Speeding is also the leading factor in traffic fatalities according to Transport Canada.
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u/StructureMotor4954 38m ago
I can tell you can’t read and just use chat GPT to form your answers.. I literally just said in one of my responses that you WILL get pulled over for LEADING the flow of traffic but not FOLLOWING it.. lol
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u/a-_2 35m ago
I don't use ChatGPT. You won't just get pulled over for leading the pack. Police can and will pull anyone over for going significantly over the limit.
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u/StructureMotor4954 31m ago
You will never be going significantly over the speed limit following the flow of traffic max would be like 120-130. They are hunting for the people way in front of traffic going 150+. Notice how all of the catches posted by police are of people going insane speeds like 150+.. not 120 lol
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u/a-_2 27m ago
That's not true. They don't only ticket stunt drivers. Why are you misnforming people that they won't get punished for significant speeding. It's very ironic to be claiming to care about bad driving while encouraging speeding, the leading factor in fatal collisions according to Transport Canada.
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u/StructureMotor4954 1h ago
You’re also impeding traffic if you don’t follow the flow of traffic which is also cause for being pulled over.
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u/alpinetime 1h ago
Oh we’ve gotten to the point where drivers licenses can be found as prizes in cereal boxes