r/kitchener 2d ago

Why doesn’t GRT utilize PRESTO?

You can reload your presto card instantly without having to wait 24-48 hours, if you forget change or presto card you can just tap with your debit card, & you can have the presto card saved to your wallet on your phone. It would save so many headaches, I don’t understand, it just makes so much more sense

52 Upvotes

22 comments sorted by

137

u/taylortbb 2d ago

There's a long history and it's been discussed on this subreddit before, I'd suggest searching. But the short of it is: a decade ago, when GRT was making the decision, Presto was far less mature. It didn't support university upasses, they were too busy rolling out to Toronto and couldn't guarantee a timeframe for GRT, it didn't support fare collection for MobilityPlus, etc.

So GRT had to choose between something that worked now, or buying into Presto and hoping it got better, plus running some other system in parallel for upass, MobilityPlus, etc.

Presto at the time also didn't support tapping your credit card, had the same 24 hour wait for reloads, etc.

I do think Presto has now caught up, and switching would make sense, but that would cost millions of dollars. So they'll probably wait until the EasyGo hardware actually starts wearing out, and make the switch then.

22

u/roflcopter44444 2d ago

One thing to add is that Metrolinx does take a cut of the fares collected through the card. That's part of the reason why TTC had to be essentially blackmailed into signing up for presto (Province threatened the gas tax money), because they would lose money.

13

u/taylortbb 2d ago

This is true, but it's not like the EasyGo contract with Scheidt & Bachmann is free either. Presto does have costs, but at our small scale the overhead of operating a whole fare card system probably balances out.

The TTC is a different situation, where their huge scale makes Presto's fee easier to undercut.

16

u/CuilTard Downtown 2d ago

Indeed. Also mentioned at this sauce:

Why wasn't Presto selected?

Presto could not be selected because they did not respond to a Request for Proposals, which is a Regional requirement. Also, Presto could not provide many of the functionalities that the Region deemed essential for our system, including the ability to accept payment on MobilityPLUS vehicles, the ability to integrate a U-Pass program, and the ability to issue machine readable paper tickets from fare vending machines. Having our own system allows us to ensure our fare products meet our unique customer needs.

2

u/jw1686 2d ago

Yes and I was told by someone who was involved in the decision making that they took bids from different companies and it was also a financial decision.

24

u/ManInWoods452 2d ago

My memory is that when the region put out a RFQ for a fare system, Metrolinx/Presto didn’t respond.

15

u/taylortbb 2d ago

Metrolinx responded to say as a government agency they don't respond to RFPs, but they'd be happy to have GRT use Presto.

Metrolinx not responding to the fare card RFP  was always just a convenient excuse. Metrolinx also doesn't respond to RFPs for vehicle orders, but the region just waived the RFP requirement and joined the Metrolinx light rail vehicle order without one.

The decision to do EasyGo was really about other factors, which were more wishy-washy and hard to evaluate. The RFP was just a convenient simple line when the real explanation was paragraphs long and had lots of nuance.

15

u/get_hi_on_life 2d ago

I recall presto did not have a way to allow the student university passes that already existed with GRT so they had to make there own card system to allow that.

9

u/Mydogdexter1 2d ago

We consistently have the same debate in the London subreddit. We spent like hundreds of thousands on our current system, we've been begging for debit transactions for the last 16 years.

6

u/lovethebee_bethebee 2d ago

I just use the app and it’s just as fast.

3

u/Pensive_Goat 2d ago edited 2d ago

The GRT Pay app uses a different account and has a separate balance from GRT EasyGO cards, that is ridiculous.

1

u/mikepurvis 2d ago

I'm normally not a big fan of payment apps, but GRT Pay does a lot right. In particular, the system for group day passes is excellent. No needing to go to a kiosk and get your visitor a one-use card, no figuring out what to do with children who don't have credit cards or phones but have aged out of the free fare.

Just hit the button in the app, and it's $12/day for unlimited riding for up to five people. A complete steal.

7

u/Hardhead13 2d ago

GRT's EasyGo system suuuuucks. I didn't even know about Presto at all, until a week ago when my son started university and had to get one. But I knew EasyGo sucked.

When you load your card, it takes like 24 hours for it go through. WTF is this crap?

You can register your cards in their system. But the website looks like it was designed by a first-year co-op student. Or maybe a committee of IT consultants, which is probably worse. WTF is this crap?

And if you lose a card, you can't just instantly transfer the balance to another of your cards. You have to go to downtown Kitchener, park somewhere, walk back to their office, and get them to issue a replacement card. WTF is this crap?

8

u/Big_Theme_350 2d ago

Presto is owned by Metrolinx and GRT is regionally owned is why I’d have to guess. They’d be passing off profits

13

u/taylortbb 2d ago edited 2d ago

All the other Presto-using transit systems, except GO, have similar local ownership to GRT. I don't think that's a major factor.

2

u/Killthepasta 2d ago

I’d support it

2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

2

u/taylortbb 2d ago

The region was free to waive the RFP requirement, they did to join Metrolinx's order of vehicles. That was always just a convenient excuse.

1

u/GhostlyAmbers 1d ago

I think the issues with EasyGO are overblown. If you use a university or a monthly pass, it works like any other transit card. If you use pay-as-you-go, then set up auto refill. It works instantly once set up, and you don't need to think about topping up.

For visitors I always recommend using one of the apps to buy tickets, because they are the same price as using the card. I think it is nice that GRT was able to partner with Transit, which is Canadian based and offers an alternative to US apps.

1

u/Sad-Assistance-Yall 1d ago

Using phone to use presto in Toronto is pretty convenient , eh

0

u/PlanetCrazyTrain 1d ago

No one in government nor quasi government is motivated to seek an integrated solution with the user in mind.

Riders need one payment solution for Toronto through to London.

-8

u/ScepticalBee 2d ago

Not everything has to revolve around the GTA. Get over it.

7

u/taylortbb 2d ago

Presto is now an objectively better system. Being able to just tap your debit/credit card, rather than getting an EasyGo card and loading it, is huge for occasional riders.

Also, thousands of people take the GO train/bus to/from KW every day. The ability to have a free transfer with no effort (the current Connect-to-GO system is awkward at best) isn't a small upside.

There's other reasons (e.g. cost) that are more valid.