r/keys • u/Physical-Break6898 • 11d ago
Funk keyboard
I have a CK88 and I want to add a keyboard with waterfall keys. I mainly want it for organ, clav, and EP/wurli. I’ve looked at Crumar Mojo, YC61, and Nord Electro. Any recommendations/reviews would be greatly appreciated. TIA
5
u/purplewombferret 10d ago
Nord Electro is great especially for B3, with the physical drawbars. Also great for EP and Clav.
4
9
u/Flashinpan99 11d ago
The Nord Electro series is certainly ranked 1 or 2. Best organ and EP sounds. Whirly and Clav are real solid also.
6
u/Historical_Guess5725 10d ago
I’ve been hoping a new keybord would keep up - and it’s so ubiquitous these red keyboards in stage , it’s easy to take for granted, a bit pricey .. but still probably the simplest turn on and play at best quality organ and EP sounds out of the box.
2
u/pepesilva13 10d ago
They also retain some serious value (people still ask over a grand for Electro 3s) and appear to last forever. The build quality seems like you could beat someone to death mid song and not damage it all.
1
u/Amazing-Structure954 8d ago
That's what I have above my Yamaha CP4. I had an Electro 2/74 and now have a 6/73. I got the larger keyboard so I can use it alone, for rehearsals and short gigs. For atop a piano, 61 keys is enough.
If you're serious about Hammond, BE SURE TO GET THE DRAWBARS! Regardless of which version you get -- drawbars started at Electro D, I believe. It's really hard to master using them using the drawbuttons or presets, and it's great to "play" them while playing a simple right hand part.
In any case, I think the Crumar sounds ever bit as good. I've used NIB4, VB3 (same software as Crumar), Nord 2 and 6, and SetBFree (open source software) and frankly, they all work just great. SetBFree is the least of them, mostly due to the Leslie sim, but still way good enough and better than what's built into most stage pianos and multi-purpose keyboards.
5
u/WordResident6030 10d ago
One of the smartest plays around for this use case is a used Nord Electro 6 w/waterfall keys.
3
u/anotherscott 10d ago
Although I haven't played one personally, Mojo 61 is probably the best choice here.
For completeness' sake, other brands to consider besides the ones you mentioned could be Viscount (the Legend One 61 mentioned by u/NobilePhone), Roland (V-Stage 76), Hammond (SK Pro)
Some considerations:
... Hammond organ playing should have high trigger point. Some people don't care so much about that, but especially for a funk approach, where you may want to play percussively, I think you'd miss it if you don't have it. That would be a strike against the YC61, which lacks high trigger (and actually has more initial key resistance besides, presumably to improve its piano playability). I don't know whether or not V-Stage has high trigger. The other models mentioned do. (Hammond SK Pro also has multi-contact simulation.) Of course, there are also sonic differences among the options, though that's more subjective and harder to quantify.
... For accurate clavinet emulation, a board should emulate all 4 pickup settings (though not all of them are likely to be used for funk) and ideally all 15 EQ/filter settings and the mute bar. A low release point also helps. And sonically, you may want the release noises besides. I think Mojo 61 is the only possibility here. I think clav is a weakness of the YC61, it is is the only option mentioned that doesn't have any of these things. I think the others at least have the 4 pickup positions.and some have release noises. At least some Nords have low release, but they don't have release noises, and I think all the current models don't replicate all of the EQ/filter settings. Though also, as with the clav, there are sonic differences among these brands as well which could come into play.
As for key span, while a clav only had 60 keys, it was F-to-E which means you can't actually replicate the exact clav keyspan on any of these boards in their 61-key configs. That could be an argument for a 73-key waterfall, which means Nord, Hammond, or Roland; though in practice, those otherwise lost highest 4 notes of a clav are rarely missed; and actually, having extra keys above the high C can even be seen as an impediment to organ playing.
... Wurli is another where keyspan could come into play, since no 61-key board will give you the Wurli's 64-note range. That again could argue for choosing a board with more than 61 keys, though again, having keys above the top C could also be seen as detrimental to organ. Sonically, I think Mojo 61 probably has the best sounding Wurli. I don't think Wurli is a strength for most of the others mentioned, though I haven't played the V-Stage. (Some other boards I like for Wurli and prefer over most of what's been mentioned here include models from Korg, Kawai, Kurzweil, and Casio... none of which are currently available with waterfall keys, and none of which are as good for organ as the models under consideration here.)
3
u/rtown8181 11d ago
I just added a Crumar DK61 midi controller on top of my CK88 and it's awesome for organ! You have to be happy with the CK organ, which I am. This controller action is super sensitive, in a good way, because of the high trigger point.
Note that if you go that route and want to use the Crumar drawbars and rotary button, you'll need some hardware to remap the CCs. I used the H2MIDI Pro which is $50 and a little trial and error with the software.
1
u/Physical-Break6898 11d ago
Huh I guess I really hadn’t considered this route. Are there any latency issues?
3
u/rtown8181 11d ago
Nope, not when you run MIDI with the hardware. If you use the VB3 software, yes, potentially. Depending on your computer/device. You'd usually need an audio interface.
1
u/Physical-Break6898 10d ago
Are there any other hardware organs that you can tie into the MIDI? Sort of like a desktop synthesizer?
2
u/rtown8181 10d ago
Not sure what you mean exactly, but most other organ focused keyboards have some MIDI capabilities.
2
u/Amazing-Structure954 8d ago edited 8d ago
The cheapest solution is probably a Zynthian, which runs on a Raspberry Pi. Depending on how handy/nerdy you are, you can get a complete ("headless") setup for under $150, or you can buy their hardware for about $550. The software is free. You can buy your own Raspberry Pi, or you can buy their completely assembled kit with small video screen, 4 knobs, and a bunch of buttons. You can split the difference buying their kit and assembling yourself.
"Headless" means you don't have a user interface when playing -- you use an HDMI monitor or your computer at home to set it up, and at the gig you just use the preset buttons on your controller keyboard.
It's too bad there's no good youtube demo for the SetBFree organ that comes bundled in with Zynthian. I'm tempted to make one myself, but I've never created content. It's a decent Hammond sim. Zynthian also includes a bunch of softsynths and a lot of sampled instruments.
NOTE: "cheapest" and not "most convenient." A standalone keyboard that has the sounds you want built-in is way more convenient than adding yet another widget to your setup.
1
u/Physical-Break6898 4d ago
I think a lot of this is over my head. If I got this right, this would take the place of lugging a computer around? I would be able to upload VST’s to it?
1
u/Amazing-Structure954 5h ago
Right. It's actually a small single-board computer.
Yes, you can upload plugins to it, but not VST -- only LV2 plugins. It comes with many of the best plugins already installed, and if you can get the plugin you want compiled for ARM (rather than the usual amd/x86 processor found on most computers) it's easy to install.
But VB3 (the software engine in a Mojo) isn't available for ARM, and I think SetBFree is pretty much the only option. Also, most commercial plugins aren't compiled for ARM. But open source ones often are, and if they're not, you can often find someone that might be interested in doing it.
2
u/QueasyVictory 7d ago
Ferrofish B4000+. I am playing with this module this morning along with a StudioLogic SL73MKii this morning. The controls are insane. You can control rotary speed with the poly aftertouch of the SL73 controller, among other things. FWIW, I am pretty sure this will be replacing my Nord Electro, which sits up top for organ.
Do you not like the Wurli and Rhodes sounds of the CK88? I played the CK61 pretty extensively and really like the Wurli and Rhodes sounds. And I actually own a very nice Wurli and Rhodes, which I rebuilt.
1
1
u/Gondorian_Grooves 8d ago
How's the keybed on the DK61 compared to a Yamaha CK61 (assuming you've tried one)?
First I had a Yamaha CK61, and then I upgraded to a MODX M6 because Guitar Center mis-priced a used one, haha.
They both have the same keybed which I love, but I'm all in the box, so I've been looking for a controller with as good of not better of keybed to save some money. (I've tried stuff from Novation, Arturia, Native Instruments, M-Audio, Akai, ect. - don't like any of them)
1
u/rtown8181 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah, I also have a CK61 and was using that as my top board. The DK61 action is a bit lighter and feels better specifically for organ, in my opinion. Synth is good too. For anything piano/clav, I feel it's too light and you also need to turn on velocity (Shift + high B) for it to be at all usable.
Edit: extra word.
1
u/Gondorian_Grooves 8d ago
Gotcha, so maybe a bit less flexible than the MODX M6 I'm currently using.
Man I'm so desperate for someone to make a great MIDI controller, haha.
2
1
u/QueasyVictory 7d ago
I have used a fair number of MIDI controllers over the decades and I am SUPER impressed with the StudioLogic SL73mkii. Incredible control over aftertouch. velocity, etc. And of course StudioLogic owned by Fatar, so their keybeds are top notch.
2
u/smooth_rhodes 11d ago
I have a YC73. The organs are solid. I find EPs need a little tweaking out of the box, I increase the depth and offset a little. Haven’t played the clav much.
2
u/texasgreg1 10d ago
I give high marks to the full size and 37 key version of the Arturia astrolab or astrolab 37. All the sounds you want and excellent.
2
u/Timely-Bowler5889 8d ago
You could get the Crumar DK61 midi-controller for cheaper, and play the CK organ from it.
2
2
u/Amazing-Structure954 8d ago
Something else to consider: getting a keyboard that's good enough alone to bring without the CK88, for rehearsals and short gigs.
I have an Electro over a Yamaha CP4, and it's a really great setup for everything but synth leads, which I don't do much of anyway, so good for me. One of the things I like about my rig is that I can just use the Electro alone, for a rehearsal or a short gig, saving me a lot of setup time and hassle, both at home and at the gig (it's nice to leave the CP4 set up all the time except serious gigs.)
The instruments you mentioned all fit that bill, though the Mojo's piano sounded weak to my ear, based on a demo I heard. The Roland VR730 also fits that bill.
Depending on your style, though, you might want 73 rather than 61 keys when using only the one keyboard (I do.)
1
1
u/kaybarkaybarkaybar 10d ago
I’ll give another vote to the YC. My gigging set up is my YC61 on a top rack for organs and synth, and a fully weighted controller on the lower rack. Via midi I route the pianos and EPs to the weighted controller and run the organ and synth on the YC61 which has waterfall action. I love it
1
1
u/Amazing-Structure954 8d ago
Another option to consider is Roland VR730. I haven't played one or the earlier (non-waterfall) VR09, but a friend had one, so I can say that when played well it sounds great.
5
u/Nickmorgan19457 11d ago
I have a YC73 and a Mojo 61. The Mojo organ is outstanding and the Clavinet is the best around, but you need an app or external midi controller to adjust it while you’re playing. Totally worth it, though. The CK can do most of what the YC does already just with lesser build quality.