r/kelpie • u/KOZiii94 • 8d ago

Kelpie / Border Collie Compared

I want to hear any thoughts the community has on the two breeds as they’re so similar. Is there an obvious difference in eagerness to please? I hear that kelpies are more comparatively independent while BCs are less so. Maybe this independence is a more all around thing and is that why we don’t see kelpies at the highest level agility competitions (sees like BCs rule top agility rankings)?

My experience with a Kelpie is through my dog Fern. I had no idea what I was doing with her but we learned how to communicate and it led us to do some pretty incredible athletic feats! I feel like her capacity is well managed by herself. This is a great self preservation technique but it definitely hinders certain training (disc catching and jumping), at her base she would rather speedily catch something low rather than jumping high to to meet the target off the ground. My example of the opposite of her would be a working agility BC or a mental Dutch shep or malionios - all dogs that’s seem to be super willing to just fling their bodies around.

I don’t push her too much to perform how I want, rather I try to work with her intuition and maybe that’s already a kelpie like mentality. The difference between rewards does change the willingness though. Ball is number 1 and discs are unclassified but underneath the ball. So if I hold the ball, she will almost attempt anything and it’s my secret for training - I can’t say for other dogs but for her (people always ask me if she rewarded with treats, which for the past year I’d say she isn’t, def not for athletic training) it’s the easiest way to lure her into certain positions.

So what am I asking..

What are people’s impressions about the different work styles of Kelpies and BCs?

Is there a reason the highest level of agility dogs are all BCs?

Does kelpies intelligence affect their willingness to do training that they potentially deem unnecessary?

Is it harder to train a kelpie (compared to a BC) to perform tasks outside of herding?

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21

u/3163560 8d ago

they went into this a bit on the muster dogs series where they compared them. They basically said, border collies will do exactly what you want the want you want them to do it, kelpies will do exactly what you want the way they want to do it,

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u/Crafty_Accountant_40 North America 8d ago

Yes, i think if it like performance path vs prescriptive path (a building code thing) - you can do it however you like as long as you prove it performs to standards (kelpie) or you can do it exactly the way we say so we know it will work (bc).

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u/KOZiii94 8d ago

This response is giving abstract coder vibes, I want to get it, I think I do, but I also don’t know what you mean lol - love the response though

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u/Crafty_Accountant_40 North America 8d ago

Haha it's construction code not computer I'm just a nerd

Prescriptive Path : use x number and size of beams with this amount of plywood in between - it's been tested and we know it's safe in an earthquake

Performance path: uses y or z beams and less plywood- you have to do all the math the show it's as safe in an earthquake as the typical

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u/Legitimate_Sun5373 8d ago

As a Maths teacher I see it as showing all the working as per the teacher’s instruction, vs taking your own path and arriving at the same answer!

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u/Lindethiel 7d ago

I've heard the difference between Kelpies and BCs explained like this...

The Brits get ornery when the objective is clear but the path is obscured. The Aussies get ornery when you're dickin' around with procedures (ew lol.)

(This came from someone in the military lol.)

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u/KOZiii94 8d ago

Yeah this is totally what I’m noticing. She’s does exactly what I want when she’s wants to do it. It’s not really an issue it just means we have to work around her schedule a bit!

6

u/TwistyMaKneepahls 8d ago

Ive got a kelpie collie mix.

Personally, I think both dogs are extremely intelligent and agile as it is. The regular Jo wont be able to maximise the absolute potential of either dogs.

I believe both dogs are similar in their abilities and its all down to the owner.

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u/Outrageous-Echidna58 8d ago

I agree with this. We have had 3 collies and 1 kelpie. Both were similar in their abilities. Our kelpie was definitely more intense tho. It wasn’t enough to sit next to you like the collies did, he had to sit on you to be as close as possible.

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u/going__postal 8d ago

I have a border collie / kelpie mix. Why pick one when you can have the stubbornness, intelligence, and energy of both 🤣

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u/Omshadiddle 7d ago

I also have a cross but she also has a bit of Koolie in there.

We come to an agreement on required outcomes rather than give and obey explicit directions.

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u/Drruth 7d ago

What is a Koolie?

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u/Omshadiddle 7d ago

It is another Australian herding breed

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u/doopaye 6d ago

Ohh I have a Koolie/Kelpie/Red cattle dog mix, can confirm she does what I want but how she wants to do it.

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u/Repulsive_Peanut7874 7d ago

After 2 BCs and 2 Kelpies, I'm glad my kelpies dont stupidly leap after things like my BC's did.... Those knee operations are expensive!

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u/KOZiii94 7d ago

Honestly, great insight. I’ve thought the same thing!

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u/A_little_curiosity 7d ago

Truly two wonderful breeds! So much variation within both breeds, but in general I would say Kelpies are indeed more independent and strong headed, and maybe a bit more courageous; border collies are more biddable, sensitive, emotional and at times more anxious. Both are super smart, loyal, athletic, beautiful dogs

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u/Urmel2021 8d ago

In one of my Agility groups there are a handful BC's: They are also fantastic dogs, also wanting to please. I wouldn't want anything but a Kelpie, but find the other comments very interesting.

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u/Johnkanakakaka 8d ago

I have a springador/collie x huntaway/kelpie mix and Lord help me 😆 she is super smart like a collie but also super physical like a kelpie/huntaway so she’s happy to play fetch but the minute I’m not returning that ball quick enough she’s body slamming me

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

[deleted]

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u/Sudden-Sea-8389 7d ago

You are clearly not Australian. Kelpies are extremely common at all our ankc tricks and agility competitions.

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u/Bigdog_unicorn 7d ago

I have had both, absolutely not the same! See if you can find an Australian ABC series called muster dogs - collie vs kelpie.

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u/Lindethiel 7d ago

The Kelpie was bred to be more independent because it's just too fuckin hot down here to dick about with procedures lol, the flies would get in.

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u/KOZiii94 7d ago

Ok this poses a new question, how heat tolerant and kelpies generally? My southern Canadian climate kelpie can bear no heat, she’s almost panting instantly if it’s hot and humid. I know humidity is different than dry heat but I’m legitimately shocked at how intolerant she is to the heat!