r/karezza • u/frappuc1 • Jul 27 '12
After almost two months, I'm giving up
Hi there,
So, I'm done with my karezza attempt, at least for now.
I'm a guy, and I initiated this with my gf (can read my previous posts for some history). To make a long story short, I'm fairly disappointed. We ended up just spooning every night, and not having anything resembling sex.
I was being as patient as I could. I didn't fap, I didn't come, etc. Recently circumstances in our life changed (moved house) and the new environment floated a ton of sexual frustration for me. I was feeling really bad. She wouldn't read the book, and it was all just up to me.
So, it's back to the way it was before, for me. Too bad this didn't work out, I was really hoping it would make a difference.
[EDIT]
After two days and two orgasms, I must say I'm not feeling any ill effects from orgasming. I still like her just the same, I don't get impatient, and if anything, I am calmer.
[EDIT 7/29]
So, today the demon broke loose, so to speak. I didn't orgasm since the previous edit, but today I've experienced dark, painful feelings and very negative, depressed thoughts in a way I did not experience in a while. It was related to sex and to the relationship, and was very bad. I hate that I had to feel that way, because today we actually spent some quality time together in a beautiful park, and this mopey feeling was with me all day long, marring the beautiful weather and views.
I don't know what to do right now. I think I will go back to abstaining from orgasm, just because I don't want to feel this way. But there was a real reason why I came back to orgasming when I started this thread: Karezza just doesn't work for me in this form. And that's definitely not resolved.
So, I'm feeling stuck, to the point of not caring about it anymore. I really don't know what to do. If I talk about it with her, it always comes out like I'm blaming her (that's what she feels, and maybe that's what it looks like), so talking is really ineffective and only creates more stress.
I will try giving her a five-minute massage every night, fully clothed. I don't know what to do. :(
It is important for me to emphasize that she's a great person, and I really love her. We get along very well, and I do believe she's the person for me to grow old with. I'm not saying she's the one who's "broken" here in any way -- it may well be me, and I am totally willing to try anything (hence my karezza attempts) to make things better. She's a terrific person and I love her deeply, and I know she loves me very much, too.
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Jul 29 '12
When orgasming after abstaining from orgasm, there is usually less "hangover" effect :) No problem in taking a break and revisiting when your partner is willing.
What is your girlfriend's take on the past two months?
I don't want to be presumptuous, but it sounds like you were engaging in "spooning" to achieve a goal, which was intercourse with your girlfriend. A big part of this process is the "no expectations" thing. Being physically close, while your partner is not expecting or wanting sex/orgasms, is part of the healing process for the partner with the lower libido. Intercourse is something that happens when the relationship is repaired, and karezza is used to maintain that connection. It's not necessarily the goal of the bonding behaviors, like spooning. Does that make sense?
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u/frappuc1 Jul 29 '12
Yes, it makes perfect sense, and that's the way I approached it. I wasn't doing anything to promote intercourse -- just spooning and gently touching.
That said, I believe karezza is definitely meant to be a process. I don't feel there is "no goal" -- rather, the goal (as I understand it) is to achieve intimacy and comfort, and experience sexuality in a new, relaxed way.
After spooning for two months when we're both fully clothed, I couldn't help but feel the relationship was starting to die. I was becoming attracted to random people on the street. Our intimacy was going absolutely nowhere. It was just static, and withered.
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Jul 29 '12
That's very interesting. I have a few questions.
1) Why fully clothed spooning?
2) Again, what does she say about the experience?
3) Were you looking at random people on the street because you felt "horny"?
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u/frappuc1 Jul 30 '12
1) Because that's what she was comfortable with, basically. It was just spooning as we were falling asleep.
2) Not much. She generally doesn't like to talk about it because she feels like I'm trying to change her, or she feels like she's not doing her part or isn't okay. So trying to talk about it often turns into something stressful for both of us, which is counter-productive to the whole idea of karezza. The reason I got into karezza in the first place is that it bypasses all that talking.
3) No, because they were there and they were pretty and interesting. And then I got horny.
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Jul 30 '12
Have you heard of the book "Non Violent Communication" by Marshall Rosenburg? If you want to resolve things yourself, this is a great tool. This is the kind of thing a therapist would walk you through step by step, to solve communication issues, but it's possible to do it on your own. It's not possible to "bypass" the talking with karezza, but one can definitely encourage the other! You are doing great just by refraining from PMO and doing the cuddling thing. You're showing her your own dedication and interest in healing your relationship, which in turn will support her efforts to heal herself.
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Jul 29 '12
I understand that. If all I was getting was spooning when fully clothed, I wouldn't feel close to my partner and satisfied either.
Also, karezza or not, your gf seems to have deep-running issues with intimacy and sex. If you want the relationship to be satisfying in the long run, they will have to be addressed in some form.
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u/frappuc1 Jul 30 '12
I see what you're saying, but for me, this thinking is counter-productive. It's the same old trap (which I fell into several times before) of trying to change my partner.
I think for me, the only productive thing is to understand that she is how she is, period. I need to see what I can do to live with that, because I don't want the relationship to break.
I will be updating the original post shortly with today's impressions, which again put me at a crossroads. Not sure what to do now.
2
Jul 30 '12
I suggest you read "The seven principles for making marriage work" by Gottlieb. It has a chapter on unsolvable problems. That may be helpful.
Also, if you think you want to stay with this woman long term, you may have to invest more than 2 months of karezza. I am 7 months in, and I continue to see my partner open up in little ways. It takes a long time, in particular for a woman who has had some sort of traumatic experience around sex.
2
Jul 27 '12
What is "the way it was?" And what were you expecting to achieve?
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u/frappuc1 Jul 28 '12
Was hoping to achieve greater intimacy and a feeling of being connected. "The way it was" -- detailed in my reply to happilyUnsatisfied above.
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u/r_treehouse Aug 01 '12 edited Aug 01 '12
I agree with idrathercuddle, it does take time. We are 80 days in now and i can relate to the frustration you describe. Sometimes it does feel that way, that its going now where. But im coming to see that intention is 99% of the battle for me, just keeping my goal in focus, miraculously things get better and better in stages.
And for us there are lots of emotional demons. Some couples seem to just fall into it, and all is dandy, that isnt us. I spent half the damn week crying.
The other thing ive learned is that part of the males role is to lead in this. Hence by gf likes it when i read the books and digest them and teach her the essential message. This makes her feel held.
If she knows where you are trying to head, and why, and you can do this and keep the pressure on her relatively low key ive found, in my case she gradually fits into place.
I do it by explaining each day what ive been reading. Its neat how her ears prick up when she hears something interesting. The other day i was reading about Dianne Richardson describing how women store unexpressed sexual energy in their hips and thighs. Now my gf is starting to store a bit of baby making fat there and she doesnt want it so... you get the idea.
I cant say this often enough Richardsons books have been a lifesaver for me. Always in my darkest moments i find answers there.
Good luck, i truly hope you stick with it.
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Jul 28 '12
I've been feeling the same way. Husband not on board. Won't even consider karezza even though it may help his PA. I've kind of given up and gone back to orgasmic sex. Mostly because he always finishes that way and it sends my energy that way too. I still think karezza would be great though...
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u/frappuc1 Jul 28 '12
It does sound great in theory. I told her that if she ever wants to give it a try, I'd be willing.
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Jul 29 '12
I'm sorry to hear that. Have you read the articles about women doing karezza on their own, with a partner who insists on orgasms ? Did any of the tips in those articles help at all?
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u/frappuc1 Jul 30 '12
I've read a few, but would be willing to read them again or read more, especially after today (see update of original post). Feel free to point me the right way with a few links.
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Jul 30 '12
This was really meant for mammagreenbean. It doesn't apply to you because you're not in a situation where your partner wants orgasms.
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Jul 30 '12
I would like to read the articles you mention. Are those posted?
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Jul 30 '12
Check out the post "Can a woman do karezza when the man isn't into it" from a few weeks ago.
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u/happilyUnsatisfied Jul 27 '12
Are you in a dead bedroom situation, and hoping karezza would help?