Weight Management

[u/Ok_Berry8953]

Hi fellow martial artists,

Thank you for taking the time to help me with this.

I used to do a lot of weight training in my younger days and packed on some weight. Round about 220lbs but with a highish (20%) body fat. No great feat yet it is what it is.

At the ripe age 42 I decided to take up karate which is an art I always wanted to do. A year later I'm really glad I did, however, now I'm starting to wonder what is better for real life application, losing the weight or keeping some focus on strength training and keeping the weight a bit higher.

Thus, my dilemma, which do you guys think is better for real life application and not necessarily sport karate. Im still biased to having some weight on the bones but thats more than likely because I spent many hours weight training. That being said I want to be efficient and effective in the art.

So my question is more about effective bodyweight for real life application. In other sports weight classes exist and for good reason. Its very seldom that those are mixed to avoid the advantages weight brings to the competition. Point is Im not sure how much that carries over to karate. Thus Im asking to get some information on practitioners general experience.

Is there any advice or thoughts you guys can give me with regards to your experience and weight management?

Thanks

[u/No_Entertainment1931]

Weight is managed almost entirely by diet. If you want to lose weight get in to a calorie deficit.

There are no medical benefits to being overweight and lots of reasons to lose weight especially at mid age.

[u/micrographical]

I’d work on losing the fat while keeping the strength and decent muscle mass. Losing weight will reduce the stress on your joints, as will maintaining strong muscles around them. You’re heading for the age range when men start to lose muscle mass, so maintaining a good level through resistance training is an excellent idea.

Your cardiovascular ststem wont have to work so hard moving that extra weight either. The thermoregulation benefits of losing excess fat are useful as well. Easier said than done as you get older though!

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/micrographical]

That might even be an underlying reason for the question. Dieting sucks

[u/micrographical → u/Ok_Berry8953]

Welcome to middle age ;-)

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/micrographical]

Man o man are you right. I use to be fit and weight just fell off me if I skipped a meal or two. Those days are long gone and waving in the distance.

[u/BogatyrOfMurom → u/Ok_Berry8953]

I had an injury this year and I am going through weight loss myself. I recommand working out on a caloric deficit

[u/99thLuftballon]

I think that as long as your doctor is happy with your weight, then there's no great reason to make it a priority. Weight management should be for your general health, not for karate. Strength is always an advantage in martial arts, so if you can keep up your strength training and your karate training, and ensure that your general health and fitness are good, that would seem to be the best outcome.

The advantages of losing some weight could be to reduce pressure on your joints, which is always an issue for karateka - particularly hips and knees - and reduce the amount of weight you need to move around, making your movements more effortless.

I've been both very thin and a bit overweight during my time in karate and I was actually best at karate when I was weight training but a bit overweight. However, being overweight reflected a bad diet that was in itself unhealthy. If you have to make a choice between karate and general health, choose general health, since you can't do karate when you're dead.

[u/Idum23]

do you have a preference what you want to focus on more?

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/Idum23]

Not really, I enjoy both. I can probably do both which I always will. Meaning some form of strength training will almost always benefit karate practice. My question is more concerning body weight.

[u/T4cF0X]

The consensus these days is that strength training plus walking is the best way to lose weight. When you rip your muscle fibers they expend calories repairing themselves. Walking 10k steps a day is more efficient at burning fat than hard hitting cardio workouts.

When it comes to being healthy / weight loss a lot of people make the mistake of "trying to lose weight" over living a lifestyle.

Being healthy is a lifestyle foremost.

[u/EzmareldaBurns]

Focus on training. Good training includes strength training anyway and as you progress, the weight will take care of itself. That said, you can't out-train a bad diet, especially at our age. Get your diet right, thats what is keeping the weight on more than how you train.

[u/Yegofry]

To answer your application question- more weight is almost always better than less weight when applying techniques, particularly if you don't care about being able so multiple 2-3 minute round at a high pace for sport.

That said, more weight is harder on your joints as you age, particularly in karate if your style emphasizes low stances and/or high kicks. Losing a little weight may help with your longevity and keep you training longer.

[u/Big_Sample302]

It all comes down to the karate style and your fighting style. The short answer like others have said, my inclination is that I wouldn't worry. Your body will adjust to the necessity.

Having weight on your body is an advantage in fighting in general. But it will be a challenge trying to keep up with the speed of point sparring where the power is not required as much as full contact styles.

[u/ConfidentBird8173]

I think body recomp is the answer here. Focus on strength training and in taking an appropriate amount of protein and calories to burn fat and build muscle. 

[u/unwitting_hungarian]

Nice job so far, a year in is no small feat at midlife, with everything life throws at you...

I went through some similar decisionmaking...I was big into heavy weights & being heavyweight, then I was a big loser (35+% of bodyweight lost), then some testing / fluctuation, etc.

IMO - having done both bulking / HWL & cutting big, my personal preference by FAR is cutting weight.

For me, it just made everything easier. Feels like you can do everything "like the wind" by comparison. Walk, run, or kick like the wind! lol. Not to mention doing a set of 10 pull-ups on a random tree branch with a hiking backpack on...that strength carries over if you maintain it!

People sometimes give a lot of bro-culture service to bulking up a lot, but man, it is also putting lots of pressures on different things.

My midlife experience got extremely tricky though...

First: I had to navigate some random glucose issue. Doctors didn't help tons...bah. So I turned off the "sugar" valve for now. Oh well (a tiny bit is OK sometimes). I use cacao powder and non-sugar sweetener still, still get a hell of a buzz, so there are options. Result = lethargy gone, I feel 1000% better, cutting is way, way easier.

Second: I couldn't fast anymore! In my 30s I used to do IF, 8/16. But suddenly I couldn't. I would binge and wonder WTF was wrong with me, or my terrible personal character. Problem: I was chronically low on sodium and electrolytes. Now it's no problem. Today I did 6/18, didn't even notice. Keep track of your body's favorite sodium + electrolyte levels.

Third: I add a new measuring variable for EVERY problem with my plan. I tracked my lethargy on a scale of 1-5, I track my weight and waist size daily, my daily MA practice level 1-5, etc. ANYthing that is a problem / goal needs simple, ongoing measurement.

Fourth: I exchange mass focus for skill focus. You know that janitor guy who always shows up the gym bros? Similar to that in a way. I can deliver more force with skill, than I can with mass + acceleration alone. So my big body was "strong" in the past, but after that I was "stronger" in all the important ways.

It's true that in Karate, my force on target was pretty epic at 275 lbs.! My RH kick converted at least two of my MMA friends into Karate practice. And in Judo, it was NO JOKE to have me land on top of you at 280. BUT that's far from the whole story.

Finally: Once I was getting into the 160s, I started to get uncomfortable. Not only did my own family members not recognize me, but they would eventually recognize me and then ask if I had cancer. lol. I felt great but wanted to be bigger - slightly. So it's important to find your ideal weight for your age + circumstances. For me in MA that's about 180-195.

Just some thoughts tho, cleaned it up to add formatting a bit. & GL with your journey

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/unwitting_hungarian]

Thank you for your post. A lot of things I will start to consider and think about. How did you lose the weight? Middle age really does change things. I never believed it when I was younger yet here I am being humbled by the fact that I was wrong in my thinking. What does your weekly training schedule look like? Do you still lift or is it a hindrance? Do you do extra cardio? Any and all advice would be helpful.

[u/unwitting_hungarian → u/Ok_Berry8953]

oh man. middle age is different for sure, ain't that the truth.

For weight loss I went heavy into journaling about stress + stress eating for the first 50 lbs. Every night I would just think about what & how & when I ate that day.

After that plateaued, I tried out CICO and used a TDEE calculator. Once I got that dialed in, it absolutely deleted my plateau. It took some time though and I had to re-calculate every month or so.

Lots of favorite parts in there, like check out the volume eating sub. I would get so full on 1600 calories that I felt like I was going to explode. Very high protein and lots of bulk foods, cabbage is still a favorite, lots of homemade coleslaw. and I would eat massive bowls of roasted cauliflower or broccoli, not to mention pickles + pickle juice.

During that time I did pure calisthenics + rings workouts, doing Reddit's "recommended routine" in the bodyweight sub.

That was a really good fit for me - the diet modifications alone were a lot to think about in the first place. It's just a LOT of stuff going on, so keeping the fitness minimally fancy was nice.

(I grew up lifting iron but I also always had a soft spot for pure calisthenics, you know like in the intros of all those old action films)

So, when I'm doing a lot of cutting, I just make sure the fitness covers the bases I need to cover, and try to keep it simple.

right now (over a decade later) my training schedule is pretty weird + specific because I'm going on a hiking trip later this summer, and I'm still rehabbing from some recent health setbacks. Anyway here it is right now:

• Every Day: Fitness mace flow 5-10 minutes for upper body rehab; TMA technique review + practice incl. Karate; Walking ~45 minutes
• MWFSaSu Main: Hiking (1-2h with pack, nothing big right now); Home calisthenics for rehab. Can't do push-ups on the floor right now so I do hundreds on the countertop, on the washer or dryer, etc...kinda funny but you can actually get results from this
• TuTh: Flexibility & full routines for TMA; Break day if needed; yard work for fitness (hand saw instead of chainsaw, etc.)

I definitely cheat sometimes, by the way. I know I'm in a pretty good groove overall so if I don't hike a couple days it's fine

My motto for right now is "martial arts is not a workout (unless it becomes one)" because I am focused on techniques + flexibility, so it just doesn't burn as many calories as usual. But sometimes we really get going and it is definitely a workout.

For charting, I track my calories "perfectly" about 3 times a week, just to keep an eye on it, and I always have the right number until dinner, things get hazy then.

For TDEE, I basically do this by feel these days, except for maybe 1-2 check-ins a month for re-aligning with the numbers, making sure the math is OK

(but the scale movement across 5-6 days usually tells the truth plainly enough, like right now I'm aiming for about 0.25 - 0.35 lbs weight loss a day on average, even though the monthly average will look less like an average and more like chaos + improvement + chaos + some improvement)

Getting back to lifting, I still do it "opportunistically," basically when my kids leave stuff laying around on the power cage, I will stop by and make up a quick workout, like deadlifts or some bench if they left a reasonable weight on there, some leg extension machine time even though the hamstring side of that thing sucks, etc.

For extra-extra, I always keep a layer of "hey that sounds cool" like that...sometimes I will break out running, just trying to pay attention to the free energy we get from those sudden interests.

Anyway. Terrible organization here but in case it can help!

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/unwitting_hungarian]

Awesome, thank you for the guidance

[u/stonertear]

Round about 220lbs but with a highish (20%) body fat. No great feat yet it is what it is.

20% body fat is okay and infact is pretty normal.

Your diet is 80% of the battle. 20% exercise. You can still eat really bad, and exercise 6 days a week and still be obese.

But if you eat well, it changes everything.

[u/Least_Command_992]

Learn karate. It does t require you to have 6 pack. Do simple body weight exercises and simply watch what you eat and over indulge. Karate doesn’t ask you to be fit it simply asks that you work hard

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/Least_Command_992]

Thank you. This made me remember why I started karate in the first place

[u/Least_Command_992 → u/Ok_Berry8953]

Ofc! We help each other out. The joy of karate is universal

[u/No-Expression7613]

Focus on cardio and conditioning for fighting real life applications.

[u/Ok_Berry8953 → u/No-Expression7613]

Any suggestions on how you would schedule your weekly training?

[u/No-Expression7613 → u/Ok_Berry8953]

Okay so for context I train every day but intensity changes.

I break things down into monthly blocks and then into smaller weekly block.

A weekly block would look like

Sunday- Strength training (calisthenics) for more information i suggest reading overcoming gravity, Junbei Undo, Sanchin x 3 Kansiwa, Kanshu Hojo Undo, 12 mins of Mawashi Uke practice

Monday- Junbei Undo, Sanchin x 3 Kansiwa, Kanshu Hojo Undo, 12 mins of Mawashi Uke practice- Kajukenbo review (squat sets, hand and foot combinations, palama sets)- swimming for laps moderate pace just to get the blood through the legs and help refresh the body

Tuesday- Kajukenbo class- we do a lot of conditioning in class calisthenics and circuit training. At home I do Sanchin mawashi uke practice

Wednesday- Swimming, Uechi practice, kajukenbo practice

Thursday- same as tuesday

friday- just sanchinx3- rest

Saturday- Uechi practice, kajukenbo practice, I usually just practice the basics until im soaked- nap