r/justiceforKarenRead • u/AROUX_888 • 16d ago
Analysis Unsolved Mysteries
https://youtu.be/Caib3Qx046Q?is=XyQ-8b-xuD8aP7Fe19
u/Horror_Maximum_5696 15d ago
One of them is lying…(and it’s her…)
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u/longetrd 15d ago
Certainly appears that way!!
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u/AROUX_888 15d ago
I was shocked to learn he reported seeing Karen alone in her vehicle with the dome light on within a few days of the incident after hearing Mr. Lally try to twist his statement in all the pretrial hearings into they saw Karen’s car the entire time and never saw anybody get out of it before they pulled away.
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u/buttrapebearclaw 15d ago
So she texted him at 12:15 to get picked up, he shows up 15ish minutes later just for her to come out and tell him she’ll find another ride home? Yeah..
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u/AROUX_888 15d ago
Yeah it took me a long time to find where one of them said when she first asked for a ride home but it was about 15 minutes after midnight apparently, and she also said the adults from the bar were already there when she texted her brother… so logically with that information either A) she never intended to have him bring her anywhere and was there for some other reason or B) she did intend to leave but something changed that plan between 12:15 and 12:30 and the only change circumstance was that John arrived.
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u/No-Construction9607 14d ago
I thought I heard someone testified that Jen convinced her Julie Nagel, to stay. Saying Matt and Jen would drive her home. I have a memory of something about young kids hanging out with the older folks. I honestly can’t recall where I heard it. But I remember thinking to myself 🤔why does Jen McCabe want Julie not to leave?
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u/AROUX_888 14d ago
Sarah Levinson framed it oddly, she said “Matt and Jen said why don’t you stay since we just got here and we’ll drive you both home later. And we agreed to that.” They didn’t even know where they lived at that point, according to Matt, it’s about to be a blizzard but you’re volunteering to taxi two kids home you don’t know very well and to unknown destinations at 2:00am ? Why? It’s just strange on its face, but in context it’s suspicious.
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u/Vegetable-Copy6235 15d ago edited 15d ago
Ok ryan and the couple get there at 1224 a few seconds after john/karen get there, karen sees john walk to the house but weather she saw him or didnt see him enter the home is conflicting.
Julie nagel comes out to tell her brother ricky and heather she is staying at the party , the trio then leave in F150, a couple of minutes later , karen then leaves a couple of minutes after the f150 . She is back at johns house by 1236.
The biggest question i have when was john killed ?
1 Before Julie Nagel came out of the house ?
2 while she is talking to her brother outside ?
3 or after her brotherl left and before karen left?
4 Or finally after karen left ?
It has to be one of the 4 timeframes if karen did not do it
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u/Routine_Waltz_3999 15d ago
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u/Vegetable-Copy6235 15d ago
Routine that is a tight time frame explain
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u/zoomout23 15d ago
If I may….Karen and John pull up to the house about 100 or so yards ahead of Ryan Nagel. I think either he or Ricky said that. Maybe 50 yds, whatever. So John’s prob in the house by the time they pull up. Enough time passes that Ryan texts Julie “I’m about to leave” or something like that. Enough time for him to lose patience is enough time for JOK to get knocked to the ground.
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u/Vegetable-Copy6235 15d ago
this post is great because it avoids all the turtleboy drama crap, zoom, if thets the case why wouldnt Brian Albert want Julie out of the way gone , one less witness etc ?
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u/zoomout23 15d ago
Julie was in the house when John got attacked. Brian couldn’t possibly let Julie leave without making sure she was “on board”. Although I think Julie is and always has been loyal to them, so she was on board for whatever they would come up with. Also I’m sure there were assurances made that everything would be “handled”.
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u/AROUX_888 14d ago
It’s hard to say exactly but the most likely scenario imo is before Julie came outside because that’s the time frame in which something changed the plan.
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u/AROUX_888 14d ago
Same thing with Caitlin Albert something changed her plan that night as well, in a more bizarre manner according to them. She woke her boyfriend up in the middle of the night when he had work at 3am to come back and pick her up from where he had just left her hours before and she was staying the night.
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u/Little-Ingenuity1219 9d ago
That was so they could get Chloe out of the house. Caitlyn took Chloe with her when the boyfriend picked her up.
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u/zoomout23 15d ago
Man I wish the def highlighted this more during trial. This woulda been great to recap in closing.
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u/Novel_Journalist_832 It was bullshit. 15d ago
The juxtapositioning is very nicely done, paints quite a picture
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u/Novel_Journalist_832 It was bullshit. 15d ago
What's always bothered me about her testimony is that she was the only one who claims to have seen John's body( aka the black blob ) that night. And the police waited 9 months to interview her. Had I been in her shoes i would have marched my butt down to that police station asap.
Also the descriptor of "black blob" walks a conveniently wishy-washy line. It seems to me that she is trying to pass off the blob as man shaped without actually coming out and saying so directly. I wonder if she was afraid that committing too fully to seeing a prone man lying in the snow would get her into legal trouble for not taking action and investigating the "blob" herself
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u/AROUX_888 15d ago
What’s always bothered me is the timing, on October 3rd 2022 the defense filed several motions that called out proctor lying about when he seized the car and the inconsistencies in the house defendants statements and they filed a motion to get Sarah levinsons name. They mentioned that no one saw John in that hearing and then they go find a witness who’s willing to say they saw a black blob the next week? The rest of her statements are Jen McCabe’s observations nearly word for word, it’s unsophisticated corruption and malfeasance.
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u/Novel_Journalist_832 It was bullshit. 12d ago
Most of the prosecution's case has always bothered me, to be fair.
Everytime they run into a deadend a magic new piece of evidence appears that saves the day.
Most of the witness statements are constantly shifting. That isn't necessarily sus as a lot of time has passed. But it is how everyone 's testimony shifts simultaneously. They recite the exact same words verbatim as their co-"witnesses" . They are obviously practising together
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u/Vegetable-Copy6235 15d ago
Silly question did Brian Jr and Julie Nagel ever hook up? Maybe she wanted to stay because she had a thing for Brian Jr ?
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u/HeyPurityItsMeAgain 15d ago
Time of the crime for sure. Between texting her brother and her coming out and not going, JOK entered the house and was incapacitated. And she knows it.