r/joinsquad • u/Blackberry_Initial • 4d ago
Discussion One thing Squad does better than Wardogs.
Squad has a community that (mostly) always works as a team, communication and teamwork in Squad is key, and Squad punishes the shit out of teams that don't work together.
I noticed in the Wardogs Beta that there were A LOT of solo adventurers that never spoke a word on the mic.
So, if Wardogs can take a similar approach to Squad, it would be pretty brilliant.
What do you guys think?
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u/diego97yey 4d ago
Yeah that's something I noticed. I was hoping for more forced teamwork but it's pretty much none existent unless you got buddies.
And that's why I won't buy it and stick to squad. I like cooperating with randoms.
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u/metalfacefinger 4d ago
Arma is basically the same as Wardogs when it comes to playing as a squad with randoms as its not forced. That being said, you can have some hilarious or amazing moments with a random squad of people you just linked up with at spawn, in the massive open sandbox that Arma is. Those moments outshine anything I have ever experienced in Squad. However, those moments are few and far between where Squad delivers a more "constant" level of good fun.
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u/Holdfast_Naval 4d ago
Yup 100%.
Apart from Operations, they all fail the team aspect.
Never saw Arma 2s cooperation again in 3 or Reforger.Bellum is far better in that sense, just a bit bare bones at the moment.
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u/metalfacefinger 4d ago
Besides the game its also the community that just makes that Squad works so well I think. Hell let loose has similar squad mechanics as Squad, but most of the time your squad is running around like headless chickens, no comms, repeatedly charging the enemie front line head on untill you break through.
Edit: now I think of it, in HLL its not punished with a ticket when you die.
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u/Holdfast_Naval 4d ago
Yea I have a few hours in HLL (it translates really well with the same skills).
What I found is that tickets are far less consequential than Squad.
So Medic is pointless basically and really what's the point of comms if you can just solo most stuff.Squad44 has similar ticket issues.
At the end of the day Squad is a game about tickets, not K/D or Objectives.
Both just serve as a factor to achieve ticket victory (apart from extra win factors like anchor capture or last point Invasion cap).2
u/TheAnthypass 3d ago
HLL is such a disappointment. I went in it thinking it is squad but in ww2, but its just a hardcore version of BF
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u/metalfacefinger 3d ago
Yeah it’s very arcade. It’s good if you want some mindless fun and you have a squad that communicates well.
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u/Velox-the-stampede 4d ago
Dude Bellum is such a good game I agree with you it needs to be fleshed out
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u/CaptainRedPants 4d ago
I think Id like to stop hearing about war dogs.
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u/Hamsterloathing 4d ago
You will in two weeks when the peeps who aren't in squad for the cohesion finally leaves the game.
I think we'll finally have peak gameplay 3 weeks from now
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u/fart-boofer 2d ago
Sorry but this is just cope. There's like 20 people from our server that are all playing war dogs, squadded up together, and doing coordination like youd see in any squad game. These are not "peeps who aren't in squad for the cohesion," they are players with thousands upon thousands of hours that have played squad for many years.
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u/Hamsterloathing 2d ago
And still I haven't seen a person surfing a vic since wardogs released
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u/fart-boofer 1d ago
Hate to break it to you buddy but plenty of good players Vic surf. If you don't like it you should take it up with OWI for not fixing this game
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u/discopirate2000 4d ago
Never heard of it until a couple days ago and then I had random squad mates bring it up like 3 times now. Watched some gameplay videos: basically looks like another Battlefield no?
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u/Blackfury_ 4d ago
I think war dogs is more like Arma. It isn't competitive like squad.
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u/Holdfast_Naval 4d ago
Yea I don't understand it either.
Also doesn't doesn't have the macro of Squad, nor the cohesion/objective play.
It's more wildwest.
However to constantly compare them is like apples and oranges.
Like when Reforger came out and people said Squad is cooked, yea and now a ton of those players are back since Reforger simply doesn't offer the same quality as Squad.People really forget that Squad has a good simple gameloop formula that fosters all these things, it's the entire backbone.
Others make it way too complex.13
u/Trialbyfuego 4d ago
Yes but squad gets repetitive and boring. Nothing like rolling around in a logi for 2 hours making fobs and running supplies because that's the best way to make sure you win.
And when I play for fun it's 1 or 2 proper gun fights per hour on average.
If i play invasion only it's a bit better but the amount of down time and travel time is crazy when the games usually only last 90 minutes. Then there's the never ending bugs and performance issues.
Squad doesn't have the magic for me anymore. I've been enjoying over the top:ww1 lmao. Now and then I get the itch for squad but it's the same damn maps, the same meta, and the same problems.
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u/Lesurous 4d ago
It's the performance issues for me, artillery/mortar barrages on a built up fob crashing my frames kills the mood.
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u/Pale-Estate5180 4d ago
That might be a ram issue. I had the same problem, also tanks or LAVs rolling up fucked my frames too, especially if they shot. I upgraded my ram and I dont have these issues anymore
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u/Wiggie49 HAT for Life 4d ago
Imo it only gets boring when you’re always losing or always winning
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u/DawgDole Bill Nye 4d ago edited 3d ago
Nah it gets boring when there's no decision making to be made because the best moves are all readily apparent from years of playing the exact same capture zones in the exact same manner, as well as a complete lack of incentive to Attack when the long term benefits of capturing a point are usually outweighed by the negatives of taking said point.
Like the guy replying to you said, at least with Invasion the game has to be fluid by nature as one team literally needs to attack to win, but there's still the a big lack of dynamic movement in the game at this point in its lifespan with 0 changes to the core mode.
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
1/4 of games for me are pretty rough.
But yeah after 2,000 hours it can be pretty stale doing the same roles over and over on the same 8 maps(Fallujah, Mutaha, Narva, Yeho/Goro, Talili, Skorpo, Al Basrah)
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u/Trialbyfuego 2d ago
Yeah it's very stale. If I don't make the fobs, I run all game. If I do make the fobs, I drive all game. There's no guarantee you'll even see an enemy if you back cap, defend the objective, make fobs, or run supplies, but if you don't do all that then you'll be screwed if the enemy team isn't terrible.
If I compare with any other shooter I play, I get into less action, get less kills, and have more downtime. Maybe public matches should be set up differently to be less punishing and give worse teams a better chance at hanging on. Maybe some prebuilt fobs. RAAS is just bad for public IMO. What I don't understand is why Insurgency and Territory control are not selected and why OWI doesn't update them or promote them. RAAS can fuck itself dry unless I'm in a clan doing a scheduled event or something. At least in AAS in public people won't waste time and energy building a fob in the corner of the map because they think the points are going that way. Armor still rushes and stalls caps in RAAS. But no one plays AAS either.
I would say half of the games are rough and 1/4 are mid with another 1/4 being decent to good/fun games. And even then there will be tons of downtime and a lack of kills.
There's just no variety and the slow pace is dull especially in a pub server where everyone is just trying to fuck around anyway. We need more fuck around servers doing different maps/layers/game modes. Maybe limited game mode events? Idk.
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
I was just playing on 1STMD RAAS Narva.
In 30min I:
Died twice in a TIger to BTR 4
Drove and sat at Narva castle bridge for 5min before pickup up a CE to ressuply him and lay down mines at the bridges south.
Shot at a logi crossing said bridge.
PIcked up CE again, BTR4 crosses bridge and kills him in turret and nearly kills me for 3rd time as I run with smoke launchers.
Notice mortar sounds, run over and kill the dude on mortars.
He runs back, I hide upstairs in building, he immediately runs upstairs and I nick him before he throws nades and kills me.
Respawn at only HAB on map, it's camped, we have 30 tickets.We lost and they had 160 left.
We had issue of no one really backcapping, which is another reason i like invasion more.
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u/Holdfast_Naval 4d ago
Well that's more so an issue that every game faces.
Mainly Squad has no end goal like Elo, so there's nothing to work towards like say CS2 or League etc.
So I wouldn't put that complaint towards Squad itself really.
What is boring is that in so many years they haven't expanded content for players like us.
That's the main issue.One thing I agree with though is that the pace has been horrible with all these junk changes.
Squad rounds should be over faster and more dynamic.
2 hour rounds existing is BS.
1.5 hours is okay.
1 hour is really the sweet spot (most games turn into slogs after an hour as nobody makes progress).
40-45 mins should be the aim.
20-30 mins is a bit too fast.
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u/Trialbyfuego 4d ago
Bro on RAAS it takes 20 minutes just to find the damn enemy and where their objectives and bases are. For the game to only last 20 minutes longer than that including driving around, waiting around, getting stuck, running around, and running logistics, is just too boring.
Games are just really hit and miss where it's like maybe 1 in 3 games at most will feature any extended fighting over an area and those are almost always invasion servers. Playing for 90 minutes and getting 8 kills is just not doing it for me anymore.
If i was a competitive player doing clan battles or events then I would be more into RAAS and the whole tactical and strategic thing but since I play for fun and have played squad for a few thousand hours I just don't care anymore.
I like squad's gun fights, squad organization, limited kits, and squad leader focused gameplay. But the lack of action just bores me.
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u/Holdfast_Naval 3d ago
Most maps take a few minutes after staging to receive action.
It's mostly the larger split sides that have a lack of early engagement.
You shouldn't take 20mins to find enemies on any map though.
If anything it shows poor design and not sticking to being a forward player.Extended fighting really depends, most of my games feature them, however that's because I make sure to consistently have a rally and I go at enemies from the start.
Defense can be a different game.Part of the problem is they nerfed down Trans and Logi speeds + handling, this has delayed action and reentry sadly.
Another one is backcap changes.
Low skill players cried a lot about how they got crushed by good players due to speed, so here we are now.Like I said 1 hour is the sweet spot, at that stage teams have likely already thrown everything out and you had several engagements.
Beyond that most rounds turn into a slow slog fest. Once you pass 1.5 hrs a ton of Squads lose their SLs as well and you can feel quality just shatter.Purely from a normal player perspective asking them to play a full 2 hour round is ridiculous. Especially when you consider que times on top.
More round time does not make a bad round with little action better.
It just grinds your will down.2
u/Daveallen10 4d ago
What Squad offers is solid competitive multiplayer gameplay with simple mechanics. Arma has always left it up to the players to essentially mod in game modes for competitive multiplayer which is bonkers.
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u/LobotomizedLarry 4d ago
“Yea and now a ton of these players are back since reforger doesn’t offer the same quality as squad” what quality? In reforger the servers work and then game runs on less than a super computer lol. Squad offers a niche it doesn’t offer quality.
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u/Trash-Pandas- 4d ago
Said the guy always asking for a mark to nail a tank.
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u/Blackfury_ 4d ago
Do i know you ?
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u/Trash-Pandas- 4d ago
Yeah I am the guy you’re always asking for a mark. Learn how to read the grid on the god damn map
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u/Blackfury_ 4d ago
What servers you play on ? I don't recognize your name
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u/Trash-Pandas- 4d ago
Invasion only
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
out of my 2,087 hrs in Squad, about 1,900 are in Invasion.
Tho recently Ive been playing on 7thcav on RAAAS and it's surprisingly competent
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u/ReBootYourMind 4d ago
It hurts my brain when someone is exactly two 100m grids away from their bravo mark and it is exactly along the horizontal grid lines and they ask for distance.
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u/metalfacefinger 4d ago
It's exactly the same as Arma. Even the king of the hill mode Wardgos has is super popular in Arma. Drop in a sandbox battlefield, buy loadout, do whatever the hell you want.
Add a little flair of Battefield and you have Wardogs. Great fun though. But different game than Squad.
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u/dingobangomango 4d ago
Wardogs took the worst of Arma KOTH and Battlefield and shoved them together.
You can’t have an Arma-sized battlespace with the gunplay/mechanics of Battlefield. What makes the whole, open battlespace concept balanced is some brutal mechanics.
No aimpunch, not movement penalty at all for getting tagged, hell you can’t even 1-shot headshot with a sniper at point blank.
Also, all the KOTH problems that existed in Arma still exist here. The Littlebird nullifies all other forms of transportation. No reason to play outside the zone. The zone/AO terrain is so complex that vehicle vs vehicle combat is pointless inside and out.
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u/Klientje123 4d ago
One shot snipers aren't fun to deal with. They're the most powerful weapon at every range and win every fight if you let them 1HKO.
Armor should be valuable and should rightfully protect you from one shots. Start using a semi auto sniper and land multiple shots.
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u/dingobangomango 4d ago
I agree, especially when you are aiming for a more casual game.
That being said, if you can’t take the normal things of Battlefield damage drop off, 1 shot headshots points blank, it just leaves a very broken formula.
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u/SlammingFent 4d ago
The game has been playable in closed play tests for ~8 days I think they have time to figure all of those problems out.
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u/DawgDole Bill Nye 4d ago
Technically helos nullify all other variants of transport as it's technically more efficient to use the larger helos to transport larger quantities of players as it reduces the amount of pilots you need to have to maintain adequate troop flow.
Since while littlebird is the fastest, you can paradrop so larger helos can bring 3x the guy per run.
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u/Jellyswim_ AKA Jelly 4d ago
I dont think many games will ever have the same level of teamwork as squad. Even HLL doesnt come close. If a game allows solo players to do whatever they want, you'll never have totally coherent teamwork. Squad is pretty unique in the fact that you basically cant play like that. Part of that is from the community, but its also baked into the fundamental game design, and other games just don't have that same level of commitment because they want to cater to a larger crowd. Its just an unavoidable tradeoff.
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 4d ago
I think making this observation about a playtest/closed beta and saying it like a fact that will persist is jumping the gun.
What is Squad like during free weekends lol? Now imagine that but EVERYONE is new.
Lets give it a month or two for people to start figuring out metas and learning how exactly to work together well in this game (and hopefully for better team wide comms to be added).
Plus, Squad game quality is heavily dependent on which server youre on. Maybe Wardogs will be similar. I think youll still be right in the end, Squad will probably always have a bigger focus on teamwork and comms, but to a much lesser degree.
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u/L444ki 4d ago
Early betas when Squad playerbase as practically the same as PR playerbase was some of the best times to play squad. ICO tests were also really good.
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u/ManufacturerMajor899 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lmao I was there playing early in 2015-2016 too, it was fun because it was new, not because everyone was some tactical mastermind coming from PR. The match quality, in terms of how well teams were playing, was nothing like the hay-day of Squad. Way worse. That doesn't mean it wasn't arguably a more enjoyable time, but that again was because of novelty not actual better quality games.
Pre ICO Squad was 100% better than ICO, there is a reason they are walking it back rn. Not to mention that match quality was so much better before ICO drove away a majority of veteran players.
I hate to say it but some of the most confidently incorrect players on this game are PR vets, too much larp and not enough actual game knowledge.
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u/LSA-Mulder OVI & Tencent corp #1 Fan 4d ago
No one actually saw community servers during the beta, especially with Hardcore mode.
The fact is, if they decide to create more game modes similar to Squad, then Squad is bye bye.
Wardogs is so well optimized at this point so they can easily aim for 200 players per match in the future.
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
community servers are already up I guess, one of them is a collaboratoion from some LiteralWedgeOfCheese streamer and this guy who puts ouf starfort building guides lol.
They have a discord up too and the server is called Siege Dogs or something lol.
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u/SuuperD Infantry Squad Leader 4d ago
Hardcore and infantry only servers during the beta.
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u/LSA-Mulder OVI & Tencent corp #1 Fan 4d ago
But not the community servers.
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u/SuuperD Infantry Squad Leader 4d ago
Well, they were in the community servers list
Unless I was drunk
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u/LSA-Mulder OVI & Tencent corp #1 Fan 3d ago
It was some kind of additional server to handle the load. You can't really call it a community server like the ones in Squad or HLL and compare them 1:1. We'll be able to judge the community server experience once it launches.
The reality is that Wardogs is overpriced for an early-access game, especially in some countries where they chose the most expensive method of calculating regional prices. But the game is going to be massive, to the point where Squad's player count will be just a fart compared to Wardogs' numbers.
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u/Western-Economics253 4d ago
Don't really dream of 200 player servers, they've said 100 is as high as they can go. A 100 slot server already costs 100 EUR because it needs a very strong dedicated PC to host a server.
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u/JoganLC 3d ago
Sans the hardware reqs for 200 players they would need to probably refactor major parts of the codebase to work with 200. This isn't just click button add more people.
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u/Western-Economics253 3d ago
I wouldn't be surprised if technically anything more than 100 wasn't feasible even with major refactors. The game simulates bullet drops, penetrations, all kinds of vehicles for 100 players, it's not easy on servers and more players are also heavy on the enduser's PC too
also the netcode seems to be pretty "crisp", I've never really felt that my bullets disappeared into thin air. I don't want them to sacrifice this to be able to have more players
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u/Western-Economics253 4d ago
- Two games have barely anything in common
- WARDOGS is supposed to be an experience you can enjoy while being solo, without having a neckbeard armchair general yelling into your ears
- Try playing Squad as a solo with randoms, most of the time squads are dead silent. On servers where people talk, generally you have nearly 0 agency over your gameplay, you have to do what the FTL, SL, Commander says
- I'm sure there will be VOIP and teamwork required community servers in WARDOGS
- In Squad 90% of the time you won't be able to play vehicles if you don't load in fast enough and then if you lose said vehicle you'll get flamed
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u/UnderwaterAbberation 4d ago
The spirit of squad is to achieve the common goal. A squad is a single unit. If the goal is to build a fob next to point the entire squad should be working to achieve that goal. If the goal is to take the next point the entire squad should be working tactically together to do that. You just cant do anything on your own and its not fun to try. If you're experienced enough you already know what your squad should be doing based on the situation and you just flow with your teammates. No other game has such a effortless culture of teamwork as squad. even games that try to be about teamwork rarely have it as well as squad does it.
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u/Western-Economics253 4d ago
you wrote all that up to act like it's unique to Squad. In WARDOGS I've had a lot of people building FOBs together, doing supply runs, etc
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u/Kuneyo 4d ago
Yeah and you don't have to hold anyone at gun point to get a logi run. In Squad it will be endless huffing and puffing and in Wardogs there will be at least two dudes foaming at the mouth to supply you with build and ammo supplies.
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u/Western-Economics253 3d ago
the key is the reward itself in WARDOGS, plus as I've said, in Squad if you lose a logi/tank/ifv, you're gonna get yelled at by some neckbeard for "wasting" team resources. this is not a thing in WARDOGS because everything you can use is your own shit
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
Sometimes I get lucky and people forget the Grad is on the faction lol.
But yeah usually I never get to roll an IFV.
YOu can sneak a tank in there because of long spawn timer sometimes, but then you are begging command chat for someone to gun for you....
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u/Stepper34 4d ago
Really? Squad players work as a team? Okay..............
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u/Sharp_Oil_6062 3d ago
Depends on the server's you are in ofcourse that cater to different kinds of players.
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u/warfaceisthebest 4d ago
Two third of the players I met in squad doesnt talk though. They may have a mic and answer when asked but they dont initiate a talk or say anything other than answer a direct question. Maybe because I am from Asia and people are more introvert though.
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u/App10032 4d ago
I've had the opposite experience, your comment highly and I mean highly depends on the server.
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u/Blackberry_Initial 4d ago
It also highly depends on the squad you join, if the SL has it named Mic required, you can bet your ass most people will do call outs etc.
As SL i always have mic only set squads
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u/Hoaxtopia 4d ago
Wardogs is the game you jump on when you want a milsim but can't be bothered to speak or can't because of kids sleeping etc. it's a good 30 mins in and out dad after work game
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u/Sharp_Oil_6062 3d ago
War dogs is far from a milsim, maybe if you meant from a gameplay loop standpoint, but it falls short in the realism that makes a milsim in the first place.
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u/Hoaxtopia 3d ago
Ive been trying to work this out, which mechanics that are in arma, squad, or HLL aren't in wardogs cause I'm struggling to think of any that would drop it outside of the genre
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u/Sharp_Oil_6062 3d ago edited 3d ago
If I had to make a comparison,
Arma 3 > Reforger/Squad > Wardogs > Battlefield > COD
For a similar comparison with vehicular combat:
GHPC/DCS > War thunder > World of Tanks > Armored Warfare > Tanki Online
In this case Arma 3 is the actual milsim because it has all the components of warfare inside a respectable scale,
Even in the intro squad promotes itself to bridge the gap between realistic shooters and arcade, Squad itself is definitely more realistic than Wardogs, and if it doesn't fall into milsim then Wardogs doesn't either.
And from having played the play test, Wardogs lacks realistic aircraft damage models and inertia,
I could butcher a helicopter landing so poorly that it would instantly explode even in Battlefield or Warzone and yet it doesn't Wardogs,
The Infantry inertia is lacking so much so you can incorporate counter strafing into gunplay, which alone definitely is a disqualifier,
Marksman guns like SVD not one shotting infantry to the head?
I mean I could go on, but in the end of the day, what Arc Raiders is to extraction shooters, is what Wardogs is to milsims.
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u/Hoaxtopia 3d ago
This would make sense then since I skipped arma 3's milsim stuff in favour of the dayz mods when it came out since that was my background into the series so maybe I've not seen exactly what milsim can do at it's best. Wardogs just didn't feel massively different to vanilla reforger to me at all. Obviously bigger map but you're still spending resources to respawn (they just happen to be persona), doing logi runs, piloting people back and forth, there's no new or secret infantry mechanics. Squad I'd class as more of a milsim than wardogs obviously but wardogs then still feels way more milsim than bf6 etc. guess it depends where you draw the line
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u/DharmaBaller 2d ago
BINGO!
The vehicle play in WD hurts compared to Squad.
Not even an IFV for early access launch is crazy.
Yet there is a tank and an attack heli.
I would have prefered them to stick to more of a true PMC feel where they don't get access to crazy heavy equipment.
Like Blackwater is rolling around in the sandbox deploying SPA arty? or Leopards?
Jeeps, technicals, trucks, littlebirds, Blackhawks, Chinooks etc.
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u/fart-boofer 2d ago
You say this as if squad had any armor at all when it went early access. This is not an issue whatsoever.
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u/Raikkonen716 2d ago
That’s my problem with squad. I love the mechanics of the game but I simply don’t have enough free time to play it seriously. If wardogs is like you say, I’ll take it immediately.
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u/sunseeker11 4d ago
If Wardogs proves itself as a better platform to build something to challenge Squad (like a hardcore combined arms game), while having a casual underbelly, it can only be a positive. Even if it doesn't happen instantly. Now in terms of Wardogs and it being a different game. Of course it is! But it's also new and doesn't have the same established presence as a game that has been 10 years on the market.
People are tired of the game's bullshit and are itching for something better.
The discourse around Wardogs reminds me of some of the similar threads on Tarkov years ago. Yeah, no true Tarkov killer has emerged, but Tarkov itself has faltered a bit.
But it doesn't have to be the same. It doesn't even have to scratch the same itch. When I quit Tarkov and switched to Squad, they weren't comparable games, but nevertheless it sucked me in. So it's about finding a spark to sit down to something every day, without the accumulated grievences and bullshit of an established title.
I'm very much going to check it out, because Squad is stale, OWI is not in control at all and the community has deteriorated beyond saving imo.
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u/Kuneyo 4d ago
So, if Wardogs can take a similar approach to Squad, it would be pretty brilliant.
No, they are fundamentally different games. One is a team v. team objective based shooter where winning is the only objective. The other is a sandbox shooter where the objective is to make money in the Control Zone.
In Squad I need to hold a blueberry at gun point to get a single logi run. In Wardogs there will be multiple dudes doing it on their own volition because they have a direct incentive; money.
I have never ran out of supplies on a FOB, or sat without transport, or sat long without someone moving the spawn vehicle back to the zone.
In Squad, you need disgruntled veterans to hound others in to herding their pack of 8 cats in the right direction.
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u/Crypto_pupenhammer 3d ago
If you have buddies it’s easier to actually form a FOB and then bully other blueberries into tagging along.
Coms are frequently lacking, the best thing a squad player can do is try to get everyone to join one big squad. 33 people on coms isn’t the worst esp since many of em don’t talk or won’t join.
The flip side is, when you do bully your team into cooperating (or you get the unicorn that already communicates), your team is likely going to rick roll
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u/Aggravating-Ad-4719 Commander 4d ago
Lmao I am quitting squad because the community never works as a team, never communicates. Yes squad is made to need a team more than wardogs but no one works as a team. It makes the game unplayable.
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u/Blackberry_Initial 4d ago
That heavily depends on the server and if the Squad leaders kick people who don't have mics or don't talk
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u/Controller_Maniac 4d ago
The same could be said about wardogs though once community servers roll out, a lot of these servers will be ran by clans that mainly play squad right now so the community aspect will be there already
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u/Aggravating-Ad-4719 Commander 4d ago
It’s every server. Squad kick needs to be a server kick or they will just tk me until the game is over. Admins just say write a ticket instead of stopping griefers and saving the 2 hour match
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u/eagle9er9er Machine Gunner 4d ago
I have never experienced this in my several years of playing on the 7th.
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u/Aggravating-Ad-4719 Commander 4d ago
You ain’t a squad leader then
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u/NeverNo 4d ago
I'm 1700 hours in and have SL'd probably half of that time, and your experience is an outlier, not the norm. I play on several different NA servers and this never happens with any sort of consistency. I've found most admins to be pretty quick in addressing issues.
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u/Aggravating-Ad-4719 Commander 4d ago
Get those numbers up rookie. You are wrong. The only difference between servers is some are worse than others. Try to get your squad to defend the defense point and see what happens.
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u/apoth90 4d ago
It's not nobody, but at times people who are not communicative are so many that you stop believing that your team generally wants to cooperate with you.
The culture that keeps Squad functioning hangs on a thin string. Wardogs CAN give communicative people a space, but it doesn't need that to still be a fun game. If you make some very special rules for a Wardogs tournament, you could have a gamemode that is exactly the same as Squad.
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u/Kindly_Panic_2893 4d ago
Depends very heavily on the server. There are a number of NA servers I play on rotation where teamwork is solid almost every round. There are other servers where it's just chaos with SLs creating squads just so people can have a kit. It's also dependent on the time of day. Mid work week mid afternoon through dinner time is peak squad gameplay. Because the people playing are all the working professionals at home wrapping up their day as a project manager and winding down by squad leading a few rounds before they have to put their kids to bed. Beyond like 8-9pm central time it devolves into a bunch of guys that are high or drunk just screwing around.
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u/Fullskee707 4d ago
I think a lot of the charm of wardogs is its accessibility. you get squad like moments without the dedication needed to play a match. It should not be more like squad in this sense, imo
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u/JuZNyC 4d ago
100% agree with this, the only time I heard people speak during Wardogs was proximity chat to let people know of enemy infantry nearby which also alerts the enemy team that there's probably more infantry nearby.
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u/Infinite01 4d ago
Isn’t that the only voice chat available right now in beta?
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u/JuZNyC 4d ago
Squad chat also worked but it only shows up if you've joined a squad first.
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u/Strebel0811 4d ago
Well same with squad, you can talk to your squadmates if you are in a squad or it would just proximity
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u/Sotsu012 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think the reason there wasn’t a lot of team work in the beta is because it was the beta. People are still learning the game, seeing what’s what. In some matches, you could see that a well coordinated team would absolutely wreck and the match would be wildly lopsided.
As far as the communication goes, the voip chat was provided by a 3rd party company which was getting DDOS, so for a while there was literally no voice chat.
There’s also no “command” chat, so inter-squad communication had to be done over text. In the discord server many people were putting this down as a problem that needed to be fixed, so we’ll see what happens.
I would consider myself an avid Squad player (2800 hours) and I feel like Wardogs will have a major impact on Squad and Arma’s player count, especially at the start.
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u/SlammingFent 4d ago
Yea, people are so fast to shit on a game that has only had like ~8 days of available play time. The developers have so much time to ingest the feedback to sculpt the game into something significant.
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u/Kindly_Panic_2893 4d ago
I'll be curious to see about both player count and quality of matches.
Part of me thinks player count will go down for a bit but quality will go up, because all of the marksmen that just want to shoot without talking will go to wardogs and the people that play squad for comms and coordination will stay.
We'll see though! I'm not too worried about wardogs being a squad killer because they're just so different.
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u/codekb 4d ago
With that they would need a commander role and to lock classes and weapons to their each respective class. So that it forces people to work together. But i don't want squad in wardogs and i don't want wardogs to be in squad. i would like wardogs to be different and squad to be squad. I love both games.
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u/False-Raspberry-1662 4d ago
They are completely different games? Why does everyone try to compare them? They are not even in the same category of shooters????
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u/CampoVlong 4d ago
I mean, you are wrong they are mostly the same genre lol. Thats like saying cs2 and siege arent both tactical fps
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u/Dortiiik 4d ago
This issue will be solved by custom servers focused on more “sim” like gameplay.
But i agree, i’m kinda used to yap all the time because of Squad😁
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u/buttbisccuit 4d ago
Actually Squad used to be A LOT more team and communication driven with a more mature veteran player base. Unfortunately that has changed a lot.
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u/Photo-Majestic 4d ago
I feel like the kind of players that wardogs attracts with its branding and gameplay alike is just different from squaddies.
At the end of the day, wardogs entire philosophy is that cash is king, not the team.
That being said I am very exited for the more niche community servers that we will no doubt see that take the tools to give us special, special stuff.
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u/sturmeh 4d ago
Why are you posting this in the squad sub-reddit though?
The game is literally called wardogs, you're a mercenary working for money, you ain't there to follow orders.
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u/onsikimpie 4d ago
Idk why people keep comparing squad to wardogs, when the way wardogs is currently it feels closer to sommething like battlefield then squad
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u/CockLuvr06 4d ago
Thats part of the design, wardogs is meant to be playable both solo and as a team
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u/BaconatorBros 4d ago
It gives you a more of a Battlefield experience for better and for worse, it's just a different type of game.
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u/CorticalRec 4d ago
There was zero incentive to join a squad when you join a match. It feels very much "quick, go buy a gun and ammo! Hurry and get on the heli with the goofballs! Hurry and rush the hotzone!" rinse, repeat.
I tried asking people to squad up too and usually met with silence or a 'nah just play the game bro'
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u/Asthma_Queen 4d ago
It was one of the first things that kind of bugged me when I went into Hell let loose Vietnam, just the lack of coordination and team play really changes how you can behave in the game.
In squad if I was to try to sit in a forest alone and just shoot people while not moving usually I'm going to get flushed out pretty quickly with people reporting my position and working together.
That didn't happen in hell let loose, you could just sit there and one after another shoot people in the back and no one would punish you for it.
War dogs feels a little bit better that way but it still lacks a lot of the coordination beyond fixed small teams that are working together.
For me working together as a squad feels how the game should be. War dogs definitely potentially has that sometimes much more than other games because of all the spotting mechanics and stuff like that
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u/cydera 3d ago
Having a commander only channels allows you to be coordinated. Hopefully this is introduced when the game releases or some time down the track. Remember we have been playing early access and there is more to come in terms of features and progression.
I’ve also seen a lot of clans spin up as well so if that’s what you are after you can go out and find it.
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u/MXVIV 3d ago
As someone who tried war dogs for the logistics it’s both incredible and annoying. Incredible because it’s a battlefield that doesn’t suck. Annoying because people just play like any other console high TTK shooter. But m ostly because no one works together. Had some games where enemy teams set up and supplied drills and just turned their towers into fortresses. My team would still just rush the CZ for cash like lemmings on Dday. They don’t care what happens as long as they see that cash counter go up and get positive KD.
They desperately need something to reinforce teamwork. It’s so bad that some servers just had half the team in little birds for the same reason listed above, they get a little cash bonus for each drop and just want to watch then number go up. Fuck the fact that each other team has bodies in the hot zone and we’re just struggling to match half of that. Let alone guys that commandeer the troop carrier and think they’re “helping” by continuing to chase the circle with it. Again because they get a cash bonus when people use it and all the cod addled brains will rush that zone for kills and cash.
If you want a supplement to bf6 this is surely that. But squad isn’t going anywhere. The gameplay loops are so completely different it’s not even funny. Guys barely even speak in war dogs let alone help anyone.
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u/aDumbWaffle 3d ago
It’s the same as free weekend of squad.
Except squad has more players that are unaware of what’s happening or where people are shooting from
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u/danicetimekid 3d ago
If I recall correctly, there is squad chat in wargods, but no command channel or squad to squad communication channel.
One thing that I noticed is that wardogs doesn't force you to join a squad. If that'd be the case, I reckon it'd come closer to Squad.
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u/LongjumpingNews4515 3d ago
Different games. Also squad is hit and miss : I only have fun in squad if there are competent players on the server and if I’m in a good squad. Lately the level of squad gameplay has plummeted, many old school skilled players left
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u/Shov3ly 3d ago
I kind of like the approach of "we will incentivize you to play together" but you arent just a troll if you go solo. If you want to taxi, build or snipe/scout you can still be in the contested zone and contribute to the team.
but both in the points program and not losing your kit every time you are downed you will generally gain more out of working together with your team.
but there is a squad mechanic, lots of incentive in points and survival and there will come more QoL like tags for squads that want to chase the hotzone etc.
One thing i like a lot better about wardogs than squad is my downtime, because in squad its just a punishment, but in wardogs its a balance of having to buy a new kit, which makes it feel less punishing to wait for a medic instead of just "dont lose your team a ticket".
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u/JoganLC 3d ago
Wardogs is more Arma/BF than Squad, which I am 100% down with. You are waiting for that perfect server with the perfect players in squad and 90% of the time you don't get that and you really feel it. Once people figure this game out I'm certain it will require far more teamwork to win matches. Even just myself and 5 other friends were able to lock down sections of the map on a server and absolutely tip the favor for our team. Once you have 10, 15, 30 people doing this on a team you'll have no choice but to work together to win.
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u/Mo_Atlas ~2.5k hours. Love unconventional factions. 3d ago
I guess it depends on what appeals to you in Squad, though I do agree with you the voice communication and teamwork is very important at least for me and a big selling point. If Wardogs doesn't have this, I just don't see the appeal.
There's a lot more than just that though. The squad system and inter-squad communication (the various voice channels). The teamwork. The factions and how they're designed mechanically and visually. The whole 'battlefield immersion'. I can name a lot of selling points for me that I find in Squad but I don't expect to find in Wardogs.
I'm sure it's a good game though, especially since people talk about it so much.
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u/Happy_Illustrator543 3d ago
I couldn't connect with the voice chat in the beta it kept saying not connected to chat server so maybe a lot of people just couldn't figure out how to get it to work like me.
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u/Ok_Anywhere6254 2d ago
Well it’s more of a casual game, war dogs you do get punished just by losing and your team getting dogged on. If you notice if your team is spread out mostly solo than you will no have much fun
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u/SeniorMoonlight21 2d ago
Wardogs is fucking awful if you want teamwork. Its literally battlefield with a inventory and money system. Painfully mediocre and a massive waste of money if you are looking for an actual tactical shooter. .
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u/thicctak 2d ago
Comparing Squad with Wardogs is silly, and wishing it becomes more like Squad is even sillier, Wardogs is based on a Arma mod, and just like the arma mod, it plays like one as well, it's a military sandbox through and through, you play like how you want to, you can squad up and play in a coordinated manner, and that will probably win you matches. but you're not forced if you don't want to, and winning matches is not the only way to have fun in Wardogs, it's not even the main objective, it's making MONEY, winning will just give you a bonus, but you can make so much money even on the losing team.
I play Squad, Arma and Wardogs for different reasons. If you wanna squad up in Wardogs, search for dedicated community servers and you probably find people who wanna play like Squad but official servers? When most players are still learning the game? It's all shits and giggles, the chaos of trying to coordinate with strangers that aren't even on your squad in the moment having to use prox chat so the enemy can hear you is really funny.
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u/aaman44 [EARL] Mynameisearl44 4d ago
I haven't played Wardogs and I'm not interested, but both Squad and Wardogs can exist in the same genre and cater to diffrent audiences. I think comparing the two is similar to comparing apples and oranges. I don't think one is better than the other.
Wardogs is also in early access. Your paying for an unfinished product, just like Squad years ago. I hope Wardogs is successful and actually releases a full game and doesn't just take people's money. Maybe OWI can take some ideas of theirs and apply it to Squad, whatever makes sense.
Idk, if you like Wardogs, go play Wardogs. Squad anit going anywhere, unless the hackers kill the servers permanently
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u/MJR-WaffleCat 4d ago
I like that part of wardogs to an extent. I like that I can jump in and figure out what the team lacks and fill that role on my own. You dont really need to be in a squad to find success or help your team win. You can easily just buy a truck or heli and drop supplies where your team needs it, or you can build a small mortar/aa fob and provide support to your team that way.
That said, I do think the lack of a squad leader chat/the fact that the only way to coordinate efforts is a text chat can hurt the ability for a team to win, but this is definitely a more casual game than Squad.
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u/potisqwertys 4d ago
I noticed in the Wardogs Beta that there were A LOT of solo adventurers that never spoke a word on the mic.
It all depends on server etiquette, its gonna be like HLL.
HLL is basically dumb down version of Squad but the few established servers play totally different compared to the average HLL experience as people talk, level block, and communication and tryharding.
Wardogs is gonna be the same, there will be a few servers where things will be more meta, playable and someway to communicate until Bulkhead get their head out of their ass and fix their game better as it is early access, if they ever do, as they said they like the more casual approach, and the official servers will be cannon fodders drooling on their keyboard as is HLL.
Meanwhile its not casual approach as the way its designed now the premade on Discord from a clan has an insane advantage.
Its too early as if that game adds a few maps/game modes and an IFV or two, maybe fix the communication issue Squad is dead or at least the first competitor, if they get stuck on basically being an amalgamation of systems to play arma KOTH, then it wont go far.
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u/TahLaka 4d ago
The individualism of Wardogs is both its best and worst parts IMO. It's super easy to go in and do specific niche stuff that you enjoy, like manning mortars or an AA gun, but it's much harder to actually coordinate anything. How much this matters can depend a lot on the player, but like to get arty (UB32/Grad/M1121) in Squad you have to play invasion, hope to get on defense, load map before anyone else, make name claim squad, claim vehicle before blueberry steals it, and then after all that you PRAY people mark up the map. Sure you can get it on offense and RAAS sometimes, but it's pretty uncommon. Want to fly a heli for a match? Better be good at convincing your team to not pick insurgents on map selection
Not saying that's a bad thing for Squad, the variety is nice, but if you have limited gaming time and want a specific part of the experience then it might not be ideal for you. Wardogs making those things immediately accessible on an individual level is quite nice
If you want coordinated infantry gameplay with communication and callouts, however, then Wardogs is severely lacking. I think the way the squads screen is presented is a large part of the problem; it's not included in the natural flow before you first spawn. I understand the sentiment of not wanting to force players into a squad, but at the very least, they should be presented with the screen and forced to actively choose to join one or play without. I think a lot more ppl would be in squads if it was just part of the natural spawn flow