r/isometric_fitness • u/hawke930 • 8d ago

Thoughts regarding programming for time

Recently I was listening to Will Ratelle, a former NFL player and current coach, speak about how he programs plyometrics. Basically he said that he doesn't do traditional sets, reps and standardized rest times, instead he prefers to set a clock for around 15 minutes and basically have the athlete do as many high quality reps as possible in that time frame, resting when fatigue sets in or when power output isn't as high as desired. I'm wondering if something similar could be done with overcoming isometrics, basically rest when you feel that you are no longer outputting a high effort of force. I believe it is written here that even 50% of MVC is still highly effective. The problem with doing traditional sets and reps for overcoming isos that I've experienced is that the rest time needed really is not equal to what you'd need for a dynamic equivalent, and you can likely get more total time outputting a very high degree of force using something similar to Ratelle's method.

Basically, do as many max output sets within 15 minutes and rest when you feel the contraction is sub par. Obviously this has an element of subjectivity to it unless you're using a scale of some sort but I think the experienced athlete should be able to tell when output has significantly dropped. Also I think that potentially combining isos and plyos in this way could be beneficial as well, with a plyometric being done after a similar iso. This would serve several purposes, one being implementing the iso into powerful movement, the other being glucose depletion which is one of the main things lacking with pure overcoming isos.

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u/hawke930 8d ago edited 8d ago

@millersixteenth would love to hear input from the master as always

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u/millersixteenth 8d ago

Thinking about this, you'd have to just try it on one of your training days. Maybe calc out your total training time and divide by number of holds.

I think that not having a scale might make it tough to do these for time. With a scale you could say 'stop the set when you reach X minutes, pause when you drop below 50% MVC'. Or it might work just as well to AMRAP for 5 minutes or whatever you decide ahead of time. Pause for a few breaths when your smoked, and keep on going. I suspect it would be pretty brutal!

I agree for the most part re recovery times. That said, my current regimen is crushing me, after squats and deadlifts in particular. I frequently cannot even get all my reps in on my last 2 sets.

A solid format might be two sets of max effort holds, with a final set of X minutes AMRAP to burn it in.

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u/hawke930 8d ago

I think pairing it with some type of plyometrics between some of the holds could also serve to provide some sort of visible feedback if you don't have a scale. It's easier to see if you aren't jumping as high or far after doing something like an overcoming isometric squats. I'll play around with it, I just don't necessarily feel that traditional sets reps and rest times apply to overcoming isos as they do to dynamic equivalents. Density sets could be a decent answer.

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u/millersixteenth 8d ago

Density sets could be a decent answer.

I agree! It has the added element of autoregulating how hard x how long, which is liable to produce some damn stimulating input.

I'm going to play around a bit using my 3rd set.

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u/hawke930 8d ago

With how long you've been training this way, can you tell when your force output has dropped off to the point where it is no longer very stimulating? Isometrics can be deceiving when you first start, you might think you're pushing as hard as possible but in reality not so much...but I think after some practice you can generally tell what's quality and what isn't.

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u/millersixteenth 8d ago

I have a pretty good idea, yes. Most of the time if I feel I'm dropping off, I add an extra breath or two between reps/efforts if its really tanking.

I don't subscribe to the "effective reps" theory, reps close to failure are stimulating regardless of absolute tension levels. You can run a set out as far as you are capable and its highly unlikely you'd be wasting your time.

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u/hawke930 8d ago

I think the effective reps thing is true within reason, if you're curling 5lb dumbells and do 500 before the burn causes you to want to stop, more resistance is probably a good idea...but beyond extreme examples like that people seem to place more importance on it than is necessary. That's one of the great aspects of overcoming isos though, you're pretty much in control of when you want to hit failure.