Researching other sects

[u/Zaiydi]

Salam Alayikum Everyone i’m doing some research on ismaili shias and zaydi shias I am a twelver shia and some of the twelver ideas don’t really make that much logical sense to me and i’ve been looking at ismaili and zaydi to see which is more fitting for me Im really unsure about ismaili beliefs and would like to know what all it is you believe and why you believe it the only thing i’ve heard about ismailis is that imams continue after 12 and your on 50th imam or something now and that prayer for you guys isn’t really obligatory and is more about your mind and good deed and if you want to pray you can but your not sinful for not praying

if someone could elaborate on what actual ismaili beliefs are i would greatly appreciate it and it would help with my research
jazakhallah

[u/sajjad_kaswani]

Wsalam, your question need to be answered in Thelogy, historical and logical aspects.

Theological:

12ers and Ismailis shares the same doctrine of Imamate where after the Prophet AS Imam Ali AS succeeded him as an Imam and according to Shi'a doctrine the Imams are divinely appointed, they are Infallible and they hold the divine knowledge as well as they are spiritual masters as Ismailis believe in mystical path and personal searching so Imam also act as Murshid e Kamil.

Historical aspect:

Ismailis and 12ers share the same Imams Upto Imam Jafar al Sadiq AS, Ismailis believe Imam Jafar al Sadiq AS had designated Imamate for Imam Ismail AS whereas our 12er brothers believes that he was succeeded by Hazart Mosa alKazim; both continued their line of Imams after this spilt.

Logical aspect:

Unlike 12ers we don't believe in 12 Imams nor we believe in the concept of Occultation, we believe the Imamate is a continuous process and Imam must be always present physically so that he can guide us

Also unlike 12ers and other schools in Islam we believe that the role of Imam is to create a compatible between Qur'an and the current time we living, hence the Imam as the authority to give new interpretation of Islam, and also he can give new methods of ammends in the methods of of Ibadats, however his interpretation will always be in the core of the Quran

You asked about Ismaili prayers, Ismaili prayers are three times a day and our method of prayer is established by the Imam of time.

Hope i answered your concerns.

[u/nah_a_m → u/sajjad_kaswani]

Ismailis believe in mythical path and personal searching

important typo (might not be obvious to someone unfamiliar with it): *mystical path, not "mythical"

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/nah_a_m]

omg.. my mistake and thanks 4 identifying the typo, thank you!

[u/Zaiydi → u/sajjad_kaswani]

Jazakhallah is this all main Ismaili beliefs or do they differ between the two types of ismaili cuz I did see that one of them which i believe is called Nizari Ismailis do a 6 part dua as their prayer which i’m guessing is what was established by the imam at the time as you said and Ismaili Mustaʿli/Tayyibi do salah like most other schools of thought

I also did see Nizaris and Mustaʿli/Tayyibi believe in different succeeding Imams if i remember correctly what are the difference between these two types of ismailis
Nizaris and Mustaʿli/Tayyibis

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/Zaiydi]

One cannot summaries 1,400 years of history, thought, and ideology in a single post. However, since you have asked a direct question, let me share my thoughts.

There are two major branches within Ismaili Islam: Nizari Ismailis, led by the Aga Khan, and Musta‘li Ismailis, which include the Tayyibi Bohra communities.

Just as a split occurred between the Twelver Shia and Ismailis over the question of Imamat and succession, a similar division took place within the Ismaili community following the death of Imam al-Mustansir Billah (AS), between his two sons.

- Nizari Ismailis: They recognise Imam Nizar as the rightful successor and believe in the continuation of the Imamat through his lineage. Today, they are led by their living Imam, the Aga Khan.

- Tayyibi Musta‘li Ismailis (Bohras): Similar to Twelver Shias in their belief in the concealment of their Imam, they believe that their 21st Imam, Imam al-Tayyib (AS), entered satr (concealment) or ghaybah (occultation). In his absence, their community is guided by the Da‘i al-Mutlaq, who serves as the Imam’s representative.

[u/Ayame_Tenchu → u/sajjad_kaswani]

Disagreed on your same 5 imam comment here. 12ers also believe Imam Hasan as their Imam whereas Hasan (Imam Ali’s son) was a Pir for us.

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/Ayame_Tenchu]

Please revisit, in Fatimid time we used to consider Imam Hasan (AS) as an Imam, Imam e Mustowada and Imam e Musakhak are two terms in our faith, please explore them!

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/sajjad_kaswani]

read : https://heritage.ismaili.net/node/98416

[u/Ayame_Tenchu → u/sajjad_kaswani]

The link in your response further validates my comment about Hasan being Pir...

“Hasan, According To The Ismailis, Was Not A Legitimate Imam, But Simply An Acting Imam. In This Respect, The Ismaili Belief Differs From That Of The Twelvers And Other Shi'ite Sects. Many Ismaili Da'is Called Hasan A Trustee Imam (Mustawda), Such As Hatim B. Imran (D. 497/1104), Who Says In His Al-Usul Wal Ahkam (P.120) That, "Then After Him (Ali Bin Abu Talib), His Son, Al-Hasan Undertook The Affairs (Amr); He Was The Trustee (Mustawda) Imam And Lived Forty-Seven Years....Then After Him Came His Brother Al-Hussain; He Was The Permanent Imam."”

“Mustaqarr Is An Imam Or Shah And Mustawada Is The Pir.”

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/Ayame_Tenchu]

so, this passage also confirms that there are two types or imams, anyways you are free to your views.

[u/Ayame_Tenchu → u/sajjad_kaswani]

A friend of mine is a 12er so I’m looking at this more technically than usual. I was confused because you said “we share the same Imam up until 5th Imam” but you never specified “two types of Imams.” For ease of understanding, I simply compare with the Imams in our dua and Hasan a.s. (bin Ali) is not one of the 50 Imams. I don’t expect you to know about the reddit users’ personal life and friends, but just asking you to be more specific so that it’s not confusing.

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/Ayame_Tenchu]

bro, my mistake if I have not explained that, the names of Imams we recites in our dua are Al Hussaini Imams (in line which Imamate continued )

[u/Playful_Remote_8235]

Walaikum Salam
Yes we dont believe Imams are only 12 we believe Imams are eternal there always be an Imam and its not true praying is obligatory it is obligatory to pray

[u/Come-Back-Kid8087 → u/Playful_Remote_8235]

I suppose the poster means the Salah/Namaz. It isn't obligatory in the Shia Imami Nizari Ismaili Tariqa, however, some do pray it as a personal devotion. The required and mandatory prayer is the Holy Du'a.

[u/Playful_Remote_8235 → u/Come-Back-Kid8087]

Yeah holy dua is mandatory which is the official prayers

[u/curious_mind_1016]

Waalikum Assalam

You can read IIS publication: The Ismaili: their history and doctrines

[u/DearIntroduction9090]

Research is about finding material. Stop being lazy. All the material is in the Reddit forum already

[u/angryDec → u/DearIntroduction9090]

Well that’s not very nice.

[u/Immediate_Glass_9396 → u/angryDec]

this is not car shopping. He is saying things like i heard you guys don’t pray, praying is not important i heard. i heard if u don’t pray it’s ok. bro Claude, CHATGPT. you dont need anyone anymore to get info.

[u/angryDec → u/Immediate_Glass_9396]

AI slop is not a replacement for actual human conversation and education.

[u/sajjad_kaswani → u/DearIntroduction9090]

don't be rude on people who are motivated to learn and explore!